Recording · Day 1

Audit Committee

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Recording ID 967
Meeting ID 29
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1h37m
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2026-05-14 13:30
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2026-05-14 21:07
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20:35:57 [INFO] Consolidation completed: 124 segments (reduced from 381)
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20:35:57 [INFO] Summary: 3 named, 11 still generic
20:35:57 [INFO] Refined speakers: ['Councillor M. Jamieson', 'Public Member McDonald', 'SPEAKER_00', 'SPEAKER_02', 'SPEAKER_03', 'SPEAKER_04', 'SPEAKER_05', 'SPEAKER_06', 'SPEAKER_07', 'SPEAKER_08', 'SPEAKER_09', 'SPEAKER_10', 'SPEAKER_12', 'Unidentified Staff']
20:35:57 [INFO] Original speakers: ['SPEAKER_00', 'SPEAKER_01', 'SPEAKER_02', 'SPEAKER_03', 'SPEAKER_04', 'SPEAKER_05', 'SPEAKER_06', 'SPEAKER_07', 'SPEAKER_08', 'SPEAKER_09', 'SPEAKER_10', 'SPEAKER_11', 'SPEAKER_12']
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20:35:08 [DEBUG] Identify the real names of speakers in this council meeting transcript. # noqa: E501 Meeting: Audit Committee Expected Speakers: - Councillor J. Wyness - Councillor M. Jamieson - Councillor H. Clark - Councillor J. Pantazopoulos - Chief Administrative Officer D. Duckworth - General Manager K. Black - General Manager D. Morgan - Chief Financial Officer L. Tochor - City Auditor L. Ormsby - External Auditor H. Gill - Executive Advisor C. Smillie - A/City Clerk S. Lancashire - Legislative Specialist A. Adegunwa - Public Speaker There were no public speakers at this meeting. Transcript (i=index, s=original_speaker, t=text): {"segments":[{"i":0,"s":"SPEAKER_03","t":"Thank you, Chair. To confirm quorum. Councillor Jameson."},{"i":1,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"On his way."},{"i":2,"s":"SPEAKER_03","t":"Thank you. Councillor Clark?"},{"i":3,"s":"SPEAKER_03","t":"Councillor Pantasopoulos."},{"i":4,"s":"SPEAKER_03","t":"Public Member Kim?"},{"i":5,"s":"SPEAKER_03","t":"Public Member McDonald?"},{"i":6,"s":"SPEAKER_03","t":"Public Member Niker? Yeah."},{"i":7,"s":"SPEAKER_03","t":"Uh Mayor Farkas?"},{"i":8,"s":"SPEAKER_03","t":"And Councillor Winness."},{"i":9,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Here."},{"i":10,"s":"SPEAKER_03","t":"Thank you, Chair. We have quorum."},{"i":11,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Thank you. I'd like to hand over uh to public member McDonald to do the land acknowledgement."},{"i":12,"s":"SPEAKER_11","t":"Thank you, Chair."},{"i":13,"s":"SPEAKER_11","t":"Oki,"},{"i":14,"s":"SPEAKER_11","t":"Umboastich,"},{"i":15,"s":"SPEAKER_11","t":"Daniteda,"},{"i":16,"s":"SPEAKER_11","t":"Tonshe."},{"i":17,"s":"SPEAKER_11","t":"Indigenous peoples have had their own names for this area long before settlers named it Calgary. In Blackfoot, it is called Muginstis. The Yithinakoto Winchisbi First Nations refer to this place as Winchispa Oyade, and the people of the Sutina nation call it Gutzise."},{"i":18,"s":"SPEAKER_11","t":"The Metis call the Calgary area Otusquani. We appreciate and acknowledge that we are gathered on the ancestral and traditional territory of the Blackfoot, the Sigsiga, Bigani, and Gaini First Nations, the Yuthanakota,"},{"i":19,"s":"SPEAKER_11","t":"Winchistabi First Nations, comprised of the Chiniki, Bearspaw, and the Goodstoney, and the Sutinena Nation."},{"i":20,"s":"SPEAKER_11","t":"The city of Calgary is also home to the historic Northwest Metis and the Otapes Simiwak Metis Government, Metis Nation Battle River Territory, Nosehill Metis District 5, and Elbow Metis District 6. We acknowledge and give gratitude to the many First Nations, Metis and Inuit, who live here and call Calgary home."},{"i":21,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Thank you very much."},{"i":22,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Alright, this takes us now to confirmation of the agenda. Can I get a mover?"},{"i":23,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Uh public member Kim."},{"i":24,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"All in favor?"},{"i":25,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Motion is carried."},{"i":26,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"And minutes. Sorry, I'm bouncing around."},{"i":27,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Could I get a mover, Public Member McDonald to move the minutes?"},{"i":28,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Thank you."},{"i":29,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"All in favor?"},{"i":30,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Motion is carried."},{"i":31,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Nothing non-consent. No postponed reports."},{"i":32,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"That will take us to 7.2 risk appetite and tolerance"},{"i":33,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"update."},{"i":34,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Come on down."},{"i":35,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"And whenever you're ready, be in."},{"i":36,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"Good morning."},{"i":37,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"Is everybody able to hear me?"},{"i":38,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"Thank you."},{"i":39,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"Good morning, Chair and the members of the audit committee. My name is Sajant Chugani. I am the manager for Enterprise Risk and Issues Management. Thank you for your time today."},{"i":40,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"I'm here to present the 2026 Corporate Risk Appetite and Tolerance Update, along with John Napier, who is a leader in the enterprise risk management."},{"i":41,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"I want to highlight that this work reflects an ongoing effort towards risk maturity across the city. We are continually"},{"i":42,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"Improving how we navigate uncertainty"},{"i":43,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"to ensure we deliver better and services for Calgaryans."},{"i":44,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"Today's presentation is geared to provide to the members how we are anchoring the discussion with regards to risk appetite and risk tolerance,"},{"i":45,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"how it is being operationalized, and how we intend to take the audit committee and council on this journey with the active and strong support from the CAO who's joined us today and the members of the executive leadership team."},{"i":46,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"Moving on to the next slide."},{"i":47,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"We are requesting that the audit committee recommends that the council receive this report and the presentation for information and the corporate record."},{"i":48,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"We want to focus a bit of a discussion on operationalization of risk appetite and tolerance. This will guide our efforts to implement risk limits for different risks throughout the city in our different operational areas, as well as shape our engagements with other leaders on these concepts."},{"i":49,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"Moving to the next slide."},{"i":50,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"The primary purpose of this initiative is advancing the use of risk appetite and risk tolerance in decision making and improving consistency across the organization."},{"i":51,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"Establishing clear risk parameters helps in operational and strategic choices,"},{"i":52,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"ensuring we are all aligned on how much risk we are willing to take to achieve our goals."},{"i":53,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"We came to the audit committee on 22nd January with our year end report, and we clearly heard from the audit committee that we should aim to advance the risk maturity by defining risk appetite and risk tolerance. We need to strengthen governance and we need to improve reporting."},{"i":54,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"These efforts will support more accurate risk assessment,"},{"i":55,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"foster a stronger risk culture, and help ensure more reliable and efficient services for Calgaryans."},{"i":56,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"Moving to the next slide."},{"i":57,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"In 2026, you will see our MIDI risk report coming your way in July."},{"i":58,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"We plan to introduce clearer ranges and measures for principal corporate risk."},{"i":59,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"This means we'll start presenting the key risk metrics. That is something that the audit committee has appreciated in terms of our evolution of our risk reporting in the past and how they are connected to our principal corporate risk with ranges."},{"i":60,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"We'll do this to better communicate to senior leadership the status of the risk as well as to guide actions and response strategies."},{"i":61,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"As you may be aware, we undertake a yearly risk maturity survey at the city across the organization, and the survey results for 2025."},{"i":62,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"Showed that the risk limits are often considered"},{"i":63,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"but not consistently documented."},{"i":64,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"This points to an opportunity to improve clarity and consistency."},{"i":65,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"We'll talk about later in the presentation how this applies to setting direction and priorities"},{"i":66,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"and identifying constraints or trade offs the leadership wants us to manage."},{"i":67,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"I just wanted to emphasize here that we have an integrated risk management policy."},{"i":68,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"Which lays down that the council and administration share the responsibility for setting and utilizing clear risk limits."},{"i":69,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"That is where we will be looking for your active support and sponsorship in laying down some of these parameters at the council at the council level as well."},{"i":70,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"If we can move to the next slide,"},{"i":71,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"what we have laid down in the slide is a framework that we wanted to present to the audit committee and get your thoughts on what how we can move forward with with this phased approach."},{"i":72,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"The phase one involves the prototyping development. As I mentioned earlier in my presentation, that for our mid-year principal corporate risk update that will be there in July,"},{"i":73,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"we will deliver a risk appetite reporting prototype to demonstrate the new structure"},{"i":74,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"to the leadership as well as to the audit committee and the council."},{"i":75,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"Phase two of this approach is the PCR implementation."},{"i":76,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"What you will see in the principal corporate risk is that we are working actively with the departmental teams to identify."},{"i":77,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"Explicitly the risk appetite and risk tolerance levels for the individual principal corporate risk and how those assessments can incorporate those understanding of those ranges."},{"i":78,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"Phase three is when we are when we are focusing on the organizational integration. This is about continuous improvement,"},{"i":79,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"cascading these frameworks throughout all the levels of the organization to fully embed risk based decision making into daily operations."},{"i":80,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"Moving to the next slide."},{"i":81,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"As the title suggests, this is risk appetite and action, not in theory."},{"i":82,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"Definitely, theory helps us anchor, and"},{"i":83,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"action helps us understand how we, you know, how we use it in our day to day decision making as well as our strategic decision making, as well as the decision making that happens at the at the council level as well."},{"i":84,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"So risk guidance needs to inform decisions to be useful."},{"i":85,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"To effectively embed these new boundaries into operational oversight, the administration will focus on three key actions. The first is"},{"i":86,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"how we assess the potential impacts of a risk."},{"i":87,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"Administration is improving the risk metrics to support this work."},{"i":88,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"Second is risk levels, linking risk levels to clear actions."},{"i":89,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"Administration is improving how we connect risk response to targets, timelines, and accountability. We also heard this as one of the takeaways at our last audit committee meeting on 22nd January 2026."},{"i":90,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"And then last but not the least is building risk limits into existing business processes, including when to raise an issue for leadership attention."},{"i":91,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"I wanted to provide here a recent example where you know the this concept has is in practice and would help us all appreciate this further."},{"i":92,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"At the executive committee last week, I believe there was the long range financial plan that was presented."},{"i":93,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"There was a minimum level that was there in the report which presents our tolerance threshold, and there was a target level which reflects our desired operating range."},{"i":94,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"When we compare our actual reserve levels to these ranges, most years fall above the minimum but below the target. What does that mean?"},{"i":95,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"This means in risk terms, we are operating within tolerance but outside appetite,"},{"i":96,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"which aligns to the caution zone that is there on the slide in front of you. So we need so what it means is we need to watch it closely and be ready to escalate if needed."},{"i":97,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"And what is the decision impact of this information that I shared with you?"},{"i":98,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"This directly informs decisions such as rebuilding reserves, which is important, protecting financial flexibility,"},{"i":99,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"and adjusting funding strategies."},{"i":100,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"Now, specifically on the long range financial plan, it shows how we actively manage these, manage within these limits over time."},{"i":101,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"We monitor debt limits, debt debt limits relate debt relative to limits, sorry, reserves levels relative to targets."},{"i":102,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"And overall financial flexibility."},{"i":103,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"And what happens is if there are changes in these indicators, it directly shapes decisions on borrowing, funding, and long term planning."},{"i":104,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"With that, I'll move to the next slide."},{"i":105,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"This is the recommendation that we have from the audit committee to the council in terms of report uh receiving this report and presentation for information and the corporate record."},{"i":106,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"With that, I want to open the floor for any questions or comments that the members may have."},{"i":107,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"John, go."},{"i":108,"s":"SPEAKER_02","t":"Thank you so much, Madam Chair. Thank you so much for the report. You know, when I think of risk, th that that culture reporting and the change recently to go into the CAO's office is so critical because it it that is probably the most powerful message that this is something that crosses all borders. If it was just finance, you can have ops saying, well, that's a finance role. Um but but but with that, I just kind of want to talk about timelines and the report. You know, earlier you talked about this journey started in 2000, and you you see commentary that, you know, 25% of the organization thinks about risk or sort of incorporates that in decision making. And that's six years in. And and this is a you know great plan and it is sort of going through there, but maybe just talk about learnings. Um, where did this evolve from? And let's be blunt. What failed? What failed in six years that we're here that it it I don't want to say starting from scratch, but 25% of the organization, that's not buy in, that's a that's a nice to have. So what did we learn? How is this plan different? And and you know, where we sit back in a year from now, we're gonna see progress, not another, you know, uh well, we're gonna try something different. And there, if if you could just tie that back. Thank you."},{"i":109,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"I'll start and then I'll look at John to provide some more context to that. That's a good question, Councillor Pentisopoulos. And you know, as as you would appreciate, you know, we have been on this risk maturity journey that we've that we've embarked clearly in the last four years, uh give or take, six uh uh maybe four to five years. And as part of that, uh uh the journey we have, you know, we've put put together a framework."},{"i":110,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"that would help us move the organization along this uh on on this uh journey of having better appreciation of uh"},{"i":111,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"embedding risk."},{"i":112,"s":"SPEAKER_02","t":"I beg your pardon, what was that?"},{"i":113,"s":"SPEAKER_02","t":"Amplifying risk? What was that? I didn't."},{"i":114,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"My apologies here let me"},{"i":115,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"oh"},{"i":116,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"sorry I'll just repeat my response"},{"i":117,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"So as as I mentioned, uh Co Councillor Pandasipulis, we we have embarked on a risk maturity journey uh to make sure we are looking at the risk culture, the risk governance, and as well as the operationalization of you know what risk management means at a at a you know uh at a departmental level. And we've had good uh good support from the senior leadership on this. Uh to your point regarding if 25% of uh the uh respondents feel that it has not formalized, I think that is where I would see that as an opportunity of you know where we need to strengthen our uh risk culture and our risk messaging around why that is important and how do we get the support from from the senior leadership to to uh"},{"i":118,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"To help drive some of that work."},{"i":119,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"And I'll look at David. Do you have anything to add?"},{"i":120,"s":"SPEAKER_04","t":"I just wanted to comment quickly. Thank you, Sergeant. So, uh Councillor Pantozopoulos I think you kinda hit the nail on the head, so"},{"i":121,"s":"SPEAKER_04","t":"I've moved the risk team to the CAO's office. Sergeant has reported over the last number of years that we're on a journey, right? We're on a a journey and it's kind of timed. I just felt that we need to accelerate the pace a little bit, particularly in light of the feeder main as a perfect example, right? We're on critical infrastructure just to make sure that the executive leadership team and council has full awareness of our not just our principal corporate risks, but just the risks that are really important to you of council, audit committee, um, as well as to the executive leadership team. So I think we need to accelerate that culture and it needs to be driven from the top down, which is really why I've brought this team to the CAV's office. We've made great progress in a short period of time. We have a lot more progress to to move ahead with, but I do want that accelerated."},{"i":122,"s":"SPEAKER_02","t":"Thank you for that. Maybe it's a good, you know, phase one, two, and three. What what sort of timelines are you thinking across organization? Weeks, months, years?"},{"i":123,"s":"SPEAKER_12","t":"Sure, I I can jump in on that. And um really the next step that you'll see will be in our mid-year risk update, um, where we'll have risk appetite and tolerance bands tied to key risk metrics. And so that's the next big push. Um even tying back to your earlier question when we had 25% um express that they were using appetite and tolerance formally, this is a good way to push that formalization is having it tied to some quantification. And so um we won't have every single key risk metric with an appetite band in July. Um, we'll look at the ones that that weren't ready and what kind of steps it'll take for the end of the year. And so that's the timeline we're looking at."},{"i":124,"s":"SPEAKER_02","t":"Maybe just the differences the plan five years ago to today. You know, what has changed? I'm I'm sure if I pulled the audit committee from five years ago, there was the intent to get the risk culture. How is this plan different?"},{"i":125,"s":"SPEAKER_12","t":"And and I think that uh this ties again to um"},{"i":126,"s":"SPEAKER_12","t":"What David Duckworth and and Sajin were just speaking to is that coming to the uh in the CAO's office and accelerating this work, uh that's the change. So now pushing this quantification is no longer an idea or something we'd like to do. It's something that we'll see in July, be reporting on it, and then we'll have we can keep building from there. Uh continuous improvement, of course. Um, but I I think that is a significant step in terms of moving risk appetite forward if we have much clearer understanding and we're able to report on it uh very transparently and then hold ourselves to that. I I think that is the the next big step that we're accelerating."},{"i":127,"s":"SPEAKER_02","t":"Is there any role for counsel, you know, whether it's through direction or um you know speaking about it? How how can we we get that? Because you know you're talking a lot of the carrot and maybe council's a stick. You know, I won't go that hard, but sort of that, hey, thou shalt just maybe talk through that if is there an off ramp where it's just not working, we're not getting the buy in for whatever reason, a little more you know, push, uh not just from SL ELT, but also from the elected officials."},{"i":128,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"That's a great question, Councillor Pentasbulis. And I'm happy you asked that question because this is what we have been. And you can go back, you know, two audit committees in the last four years, if not more. And we've had this conversation with the audit committee and with the support of the audit committee to say, yeah, this is something that needs to be driven in the organization. And we've been having those consistent uh discussions even at our executive leadership team for sure to have those uh important uh parameters defined."},{"i":129,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"Now, to your question on how can council uh help with this, I think this is the right time to do the right thing in terms of having that support. Because as I mentioned in my speaking notes as well for the presentation, the integrated risk management policy clearly lays down the joint role of the council and the administration in defining these limits, these risk limits. And uh we are actively looking for the sponsorship and support of the audit committee to take this to the council and have those conversations. I also wanted to highlight for the awareness of audit committee, we are in the stage of finalizing bringing on an external risk consultant to help us expedite this work along with our placement at the CEO's office, which definitely has been helpful to drive that message."},{"i":130,"s":"SPEAKER_02","t":"So so more to come. Yeah, no, I appreciate that context. It's things to think about as we we go through. And it sounds like maybe the time is a little more active. It certainly administrations recognize that by moving it to the CAO's office, which I I think is was the right decision. And now maybe it's a little more as we sort of go to make sure to show the organization this is important. I I see some public members want to speak, so maybe I'll just ask you know one more question because I'm really curious to their thoughts. Uh attachment to page uh two of four, and it talks about um risk appetite scale one, two, three, four, five. And um, you know, the the one on the hard hard left is no risk, any circumstance, inherently high risk. And and and I I was thinking about sort of financial impact because because um you y you know, if if it no risk under any circumstance, if it's a hundred dollars, you know what I mean? Like you'll you'll take the risk all day, but you know, millions of dollars or life, lost life, et cetera. So so maybe where was that?"},{"i":131,"s":"SPEAKER_02","t":"Where does dollars sort of come into that? You know, we we had IPC and and they were talking about uh running assets to the end of life and there was a materiality threat. I think it was five million, don't quote me on it, three or five million. That made sense to me. A sidewalk, eh, you know, you're gonna run it, but something critical. And maybe just put the dollar connection. Is that owned by your or does finance come in? Because that that does have a pretty material impact. I I I'm I can accept."},{"i":132,"s":"SPEAKER_02","t":"No risk under any circumstances, but if it's immaterial, it's not our job to quantify that. But maybe how did you think through that and where does that get layered into the conversation as the organization?"},{"i":133,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"I can start and then uh look to John and then probably some help from CFO to to help out with this. Uh the extreme left uh uh level is I would say more of aspiration than of uh practical uh implication because there cannot you you cannot run any operation without taking any risk. It's about how do we how do we measure that risk through quantitative measures."},{"i":134,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"Understanding risk tolerance and what is the appetite that the council has on taking certain risk and what do they how do they work with the administration in terms of delegating some of that risk appetite to say, hey, you know, this is this is the this is the max or this is this is our range of where you can take the risk on on a particular uh on a particular initiative or a project or operations or service delivery. And then in terms of specifically defining what those uh those those dollar amounts would be, uh the intent is to work actively with the CFO's team to to define some of those those limits."},{"i":135,"s":"SPEAKER_07","t":"So I would say from a"},{"i":136,"s":"SPEAKER_07","t":"financial perspective, there's another concept as well as is the correlation of risk. And so um I would say and and to some of the earlier questions about where we've been and and how long it takes, uh, et cetera, I would say one of the biggest pieces in the maturity walk is understanding and introducing correlated risk or correlation between risks. So we could look at, example, the financial sustainability risk. And our goal, if we're driving hard, might be we will bring that risk and control it to this extreme level."},{"i":137,"s":"SPEAKER_07","t":"But it might be at the expense of other risks go through the roof or start to increase. And so when we look at"},{"i":138,"s":"SPEAKER_07","t":"one type of action, we really have to then start to understand correlation with other risks. And so it might be that uh, and there was an example used about um the reserves and and some of the financial aspects in the long range financial plan, it might be that it warrants a conversation about do we have our tolerance level set at a place where they need to move? And so, for example, around one of the reserves we speak about a lot, it's that we have a target of 15%."},{"i":139,"s":"SPEAKER_07","t":"And we take a look at that and it's like hmm, we're at nine, we're at ten, we're at ten and a quarter, we're back down to nine, we're somewhere else. But when we look, how does that manage our risk? And it may be that we have to reflect and say, those tolerances maybe need to be changed."},{"i":140,"s":"SPEAKER_07","t":"But if they're not changed and if we follow"},{"i":141,"s":"SPEAKER_07","t":"A mature uh focus on this that it actually drives decision making. For example, if we were"},{"i":142,"s":"SPEAKER_07","t":"speaking about an item before council and a notice of motion was we are going to use the FSR for another two million dollars,"},{"i":143,"s":"SPEAKER_07","t":"council would look and perhaps look to our risk flavor and say, actually, no,"},{"i":144,"s":"SPEAKER_07","t":"our FSR is not at 15. Our view of risk tolerance in managing that risk is we need to be closer to 15 or at 15. So therefore, these items."},{"i":145,"s":"SPEAKER_07","t":"Might be a direct no um in that extreme look at how we would manage in in a very far out uh perspective perspective. But it might be that there's a trade-off between uh one of the other risks. So we talk about cyber risk, we talk about safety, we talk and what would be that trade-off. But understanding the correlation, I think is the next step in maturity to take a look at it holistically, and that there is really, I would in my opinion say there's really not a conversation about one of the bubbles from the risk matrix or the heat map. You're really looking at that they're attached with a thread. So as one moves up, what will be the next impact and how will that adjust? And that I think is is the the"},{"i":146,"s":"SPEAKER_07","t":"longer term view of maturity. But the idea of introducing that very directly around decision making, uh when we go into the four year"},{"i":147,"s":"SPEAKER_07","t":"Budget conversations uh later in the fall, that will be part of that thread going where do you want to be overall? And if you're gonna mitigate mitigate run one risk, what's the impact to others? And so I would say that's that's sort of that play of how finance would fit into that. It's not so much um we're a little lower, I would say, in the maturity currently about you know, do we have the dollars for this? Well"},{"i":148,"s":"SPEAKER_07","t":"In the pure answer, yes, we've got huge liquidity, so we've got the dollars to do a lot of things. But the answer, I would think, down the road in a more mature uh conversation would be what does that do to our uh you know financial risk? What does that do to our risk tolerance? Where are we at relative to that? And if those are truly uh followed, the answers to some of the the questions might be different about how we actually execute to move uh towards those tolerances."},{"i":149,"s":"SPEAKER_02","t":"That um instead of reacting to risk now getting sort of ahead of it and the domino, you push one, what happens down there. So thanks for that. And uh I'll I'll pass uh finish my questions. Thank you, Madam Chair."},{"i":150,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Thank you. Uh Karen Kim. Our public member Kim."},{"i":151,"s":"SPEAKER_08","t":"Thank you. Thank you for your report. I'm encouraged by the progress and the direction that you're taking. I think this makes a lot of sense and it's necessary. I'm also pleased that you're taking a look at risk as also opportunity. So areas that are below our risk appetite are actually opportunities. So that's a good way to look at it. So I applaud you for that."},{"i":152,"s":"SPEAKER_08","t":"So having said all that,"},{"i":153,"s":"SPEAKER_08","t":"it's great, it's in theory, you have it all here, but how do you actually make it happen? So how does it come into practice? So for some examples of some questions that I have would be."},{"i":154,"s":"SPEAKER_08","t":"I might have one view of my own personal biases about risk, and so it becomes subjective."},{"i":155,"s":"SPEAKER_08","t":"And so you have a number of different parties that will look at one particular risk, and I might have be more risk averse than someone else. So, how do you reach consensus for managing a risk and what will be the appropriate risk appetite and risk tolerance?"},{"i":156,"s":"SPEAKER_08","t":"And so that it's also consistently applied? Are you looking to get to quantifiable measures? But that may not always be possible. But how will you be able to"},{"i":157,"s":"SPEAKER_08","t":"get that alignment, that consensus, and"},{"i":158,"s":"SPEAKER_08","t":"that it's"},{"i":159,"s":"SPEAKER_08","t":"also consistent?"},{"i":160,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"I can start. And then John probably can uh can give m uh more flavor to that. So th th that's a very good question, uh public member Kim. Uh there is a three pronged approach that"},{"i":161,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"We have uh we we intend to follow. One is what you what we just mentioned about defining the risk appetite and risk tolerance at a key risk metrics level. So so as you would have appreciated in the past, we've had reporting where we bring key risk metrics and we show how those have trended over a period of time. What we are what we are trying to do now is have specific risk levels defined for each of those matrices. And"},{"i":162,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"Understand how our values are trending with respect to those definition of those ranges and whether that that follows are with whether it is in optimal zone, caution zone, or critical zone, or in other terms, whether it within the risk appetite and or with or with exceeding the risk appetite and within the risk tolerance or exceeding the risk tolerance. And the second approach is we have uh we brought to the audit committee in January one of the pilots we've done on risk escalation with the uh Calgary Transit. And we are uh based on the success of that uh risk escalation pilot, we are now working with operational services. Two departments that we are actively working with are operational services and infrastructure services. And as part of the risk escalation,"},{"i":163,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"Risk appetite and risk tolerance will be embedded in those conversations because if you do not know what your tolerance levels are, how would you escalate the risk? So that is that is that is the mechanism we are trying to use at departmental level and then further down at a business unit level with these two departments to understand how that risk can be defined in terms of the uh acceptable risk uh appetite and risk tolerance, and how does that trigger risk escalation to"},{"i":164,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"To to the uh various levels of management and how does that reach uh the executive leadership team and how does that reach to the audit committee or to the coun and to the council as the case may be. And the third approach is"},{"i":165,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"Is about having that uh workshops with uh with the members of the ELD to understand the uh the uh"},{"i":166,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"the risk, the uh impact of the risk appetite and risk tolerance to what uh the CFO just mentioned in terms of"},{"i":167,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"how can we understand the trade off of risk if we do not understand our risk tolerances? And if we understand that, what does that risk trade off conversation look like? So I would say these those are the three um uh"},{"i":168,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"Three approaches or three three-pronged approach that I think uh will help us uh move along this journey, you know, to to answer your question. Anything, John, you wanted to answer, add? No? Okay."},{"i":169,"s":"SPEAKER_04","t":"If I could, I'll just add one thing uh around your question about how does the rubber hit the road? Like how how does it look in practice?"},{"i":170,"s":"SPEAKER_04","t":"As we as you heard, we're on a journey. And Public Commander Kim, you know, we we've been on a journey for the last number of years. One thing we're doing in our critical infrastructure areas in 2026 is to do risk escalation training for our leaders so that they understand not just what risk is, but when you actually escalate, when it would get escalated to the director, to the GM, and ultimately to the CEO or to myself. Once we do that training, we'll probably expand that across the organization. It's just again an example of how we're a learning organization trying to take these risk principles and making sure they're embedded throughout the organization in practice."},{"i":171,"s":"SPEAKER_08","t":"Great, thank you. And my other question is with regards to how do you bridge that consensus"},{"i":172,"s":"SPEAKER_08","t":"across"},{"i":173,"s":"SPEAKER_08","t":"administration to council?"},{"i":174,"s":"SPEAKER_08","t":"How do you get that alignment?"},{"i":175,"s":"SPEAKER_04","t":"Great public member can may repeat your question."},{"i":176,"s":"SPEAKER_08","t":"When I think about risk tolerance or risk appetite for the administration, that might be one view. And then council"},{"i":177,"s":"SPEAKER_08","t":"may disparately, because they all represent different wards, have different views of, especially maybe one ward may have a specific hot button risk that they may see they may have a lower risk tolerance to. So how do you reconcile"},{"i":178,"s":"SPEAKER_08","t":"and then manage those risks collectively? Because you've got all these different views of risk."},{"i":179,"s":"SPEAKER_04","t":"So I'll let Sajan um answer that, but really at a high level, we're one organization. While we're divided into 14 wards, we would have uh for a particular risk, we'd have an identified appetite and tolerance for a particular risk. It's not by ward, it would be by the corporation. Um and uh depending if that appetite or tolerance needed to be adjusted, it would be adjusted for the whole organization, not a particular ward."},{"i":180,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"Uh thank you, David. And thanks for the question, Public Member Kim. I think David j what mentioned was what David just mentioned was the framework that we want to work with. You know, one organization and uh one risk appetite. Definitely what you're spelling out would be some of the challenges in terms of understanding what the uh what the council priority is aligned to the councillor's priorities. And I think that is where uh I think that is where that can that consensus or that uh common understanding has to be built within the council, and that's probably my uh my my my intent. Or"},{"i":181,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"that if we want to move in that direction of defining the risk appetite and tolerance at the council level, I think that that uh one organization approach will be helpful, and we would need support of councillors to come together on making that happen."},{"i":182,"s":"SPEAKER_08","t":"Great. Thank you. Good luck. Thank you."},{"i":183,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"We need that. Thank you."},{"i":184,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Thanks. Public Member Knacker."},{"i":185,"s":"SPEAKER_05","t":"Thank you, Chair. And uh thank you for the um for walking us through um the framework. Um one of the things that I just want you to maybe unpack a little bit more and also to hear from administration, um, and this is really um me seeing uh, you know, fantastic um"},{"i":186,"s":"SPEAKER_05","t":"ERM systems in large organizations, including municipalities and and federal, being laid out or being rolled out but not being impactful, right? So that is the kind of context and lens I just want to lay. And the reason I'm laying that context is I want to just gain a sense of in terms of accountability and risk ownership. Um what does that look like within the city? Do we have a specific risk being tied to a specific risk owner? Um I do see uh that that we make reference to shared ownership. Um so maybe if you could unpack that a little bit more for me."},{"i":187,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"Great question as always. Public member Nikar, good to see you back."},{"i":188,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"In terms of the risk ownership, you know, if you see the principal corporate risk, each principal corporate risk is owned by uh a GM who's a member of the general manager who's a member of the executive leadership team."},{"i":189,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"Now, in terms of uh leader uh in terms of uh uh"},{"i":190,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"risk ownership beneath the principal corporate risk."},{"i":191,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"There are business unit risk registers, and every business unit risk register is owned by a business unit director. So that is how the ownership is laid out in terms of the ownership. When we talk about shared ownership, it is more of the approach that we want to take in this organization to not have that siloed approach where every business unit director or a general manager of a department is focused only on a particular risk that they own. And that is where, if you see the process that we follow for our principal corporate risk in terms of a top-down approach before we come to you to the audit committee, is we have an exhaustive discussion at the executive leadership team where the executive leadership team looks at that risk profile as a cross corporate body in terms of that shared ownership. But then when it comes to the specific ownership of each principal corporate risk,"},{"i":192,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"Every GM who is ta who is the risk owner of a particular risk owns that particular risk and is is responsible in terms of the accountability of that particular principal corporate risk. So that is how the the governance of the uh risk management ha is laid out in terms of how we have structured the the principal corporate risks."},{"i":193,"s":"SPEAKER_05","t":"So and thank you so much for sharing that. And maybe just one step further. So if a risk is not met, or what what are the repercussions at that risk owner level?"},{"i":194,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"So when you mean uh I just want"},{"i":195,"s":"SPEAKER_05","t":"So maybe maybe let me ask it more directly. So is that a risk owner and that KPI tied to any sort of performance or repercussions if it's not met?"},{"i":196,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"So, what we are doing in terms of evolution of our risk reporting is each risk management strategy that you see in the under each of the principal corporate risk will have timelines and ownership."},{"i":197,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"And then as a step forward to the evolution of risk reporting, that is where the accountability will lie in terms of if that risk management strategy is not working effectively to manage the risk that it has been assigned to. And we are also linking the key risk metrics to a specific or more than one risk management strategies. So you will see a clear line of sight on key risk metric."},{"i":198,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"Risk and then the uh risk management strategy and then the ownership and the timelines."},{"i":199,"s":"SPEAKER_05","t":"Sure. And so if the risk mitigation and the timeline is not met, what is the outcome or the impact to the risk owner? And maybe that's not a question for risk, but may more for administration."},{"i":200,"s":"SPEAKER_04","t":"So I think it would depend on the circumstances. So it may be a one-off situation where either the appetite or the tolerance was exceeded. And that would be on the reporting when we come to report back. So what are we doing to drive that down? Or was that a consequence of a decision that a leader made that they either shouldn't have made or done something differently? And then there's there's there we have a performance-based system here where our leaders are are are all um they go through performance reviews every single year. So I would expect if there's a leader in the organization that is managing a risk and they're failing to manage that risk properly, out of the that which is within their control, then there would be a discussion that we would have with that leader and it would show up in their performance review."},{"i":201,"s":"SPEAKER_05","t":"Okay. So is it a correct understanding then that the risk owner actually has that as part of their performance?"},{"i":202,"s":"SPEAKER_04","t":"So there there I can't comment through the whole organization, but I can comment on the executive leadership team. We all own a principal corporate risk, so all of the general managers. So for example, Mr. Tucker owns financial risk. There are things embedded with Mr. Tucker's review with myself around prof uh perform financial performance risk, and we would have discussions if certain targets aren't met. So I can that is how it works at the executive leadership team. Then from the general managers, it cascades down to directors, from directors down to managers throughout the organization. That's how it's worked."},{"i":203,"s":"SPEAKER_05","t":"Sure. And then maybe just a suggestion, because I hear you say that maybe that's not throughout the organization."},{"i":204,"s":"SPEAKER_04","t":"Sorry, that's not what I'm saying. I said I can't comment on directors and below how they actually do that."},{"i":205,"s":"SPEAKER_05","t":"Okay."},{"i":206,"s":"SPEAKER_04","t":"Um, I can comment from myself to the general managers, general managers to directors. It is embedded in the organization. I don't see those results myself unless there's a risk that's as escalated or elevated or goes beyond the appetite or tolerance limits."},{"i":207,"s":"SPEAKER_05","t":"Okay. No, thank you so much for that comment. But I guess just a general comment that it is good practice that we have some sort of visibility in terms of, you know, one city to have uh risks tied to some sort of metric so that we're able to manage it correctly. Thank you."},{"i":208,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Thank you."},{"i":209,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Thank you. Public Member McDonald."},{"i":210,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Thank you, Chair."},{"i":211,"s":"SPEAKER_11","t":"Um just a a quick question on how um"},{"i":212,"s":"SPEAKER_11","t":"uh"},{"i":213,"s":"SPEAKER_11","t":"actually for I was I was expecting John that you were up next, but I still hear thunder, that's okay. Um I will"},{"i":214,"s":"SPEAKER_11","t":"so first thing um just want to say"},{"i":215,"s":"SPEAKER_11","t":"I really do like the fact that the age old concept of what gets measured gets done is sort of being applied, and I think that's that's broadly what we're trying to to accomplish and and really applaud that."},{"i":216,"s":"SPEAKER_11","t":"A bit of my question is how you measure that from an enterprise level versus when you get into the organization and start to drill down into different departments, how that multi-billion dollar risk tolerance translates into individual targets in different that that sort of concept. Maybe you could just give me a sense of how long you think that will take to get to that level, because that's going to be a multi-year journey."},{"i":217,"s":"SPEAKER_11","t":"Just wanted to sort of poke the bear and see uh see see longer term, once you've established some of those, how it's going to trickle down so that you do start to see it in in managers, uh, performance management."},{"i":218,"s":"SPEAKER_11","t":"Things. Yeah."},{"i":219,"s":"SPEAKER_07","t":"So I'm just jumping in and on my own here. Um"},{"i":220,"s":"SPEAKER_07","t":"from a uh"},{"i":221,"s":"SPEAKER_07","t":"How we see it moving through the organization, and I from a a financial perspective, um, and arguably this is maybe more of the easier line of sight metric and series of metrics to to follow. Uh, from our perspective is, you know, when we look at how we manage that financial risk, one of the major components is how we look at the reserves. The other major component is how we put together the budget. And the budget is we um cannot have a deficit budget. And when we say how does that translate into individuals, um, when we roll that out, that essentially is broken down into levels of distinction to every debt ID owner. And all of those debt ID owners have a budget. We track against it, their actuals are recorded against it, and then we report that, we build that up and report that back to council through our executive information reports monthly, as well as our quarterly report. So when we look at that particular risk flow, we've broken that down all the way to every department ID owner and start to track that, monitor it, and report on it. And so to your your earlier question, I was smile, or your earlier point, I was smiling about things that get measured, uh, action and and visibility uh follows. So from that perspective, I would say the financial one lends itself very well to this methodology and logic. And when we move across the other spectrums of risk and the other um major areas, that becomes more of a challenge because some of that reporting is more by area. And I think that's some of the keys that are are being built, even building up to our performance measures that are going to be in some of our uh regular reporting is what do those performance measures look like in totality with those areas broken down into greater levels of distinction? But that would be an example of how we take those risks uh in the financial space and break that down to individuals to see how we're tracking relative um to moving throughout the year to that risk."},{"i":222,"s":"SPEAKER_11","t":"Okay, yeah, that's that's a uh really good answer. And I I appreciate how finance has had you know many decades of managing, uh reporting"},{"i":223,"s":"SPEAKER_11","t":"reliable data. The rest of the organization may not have all of that in place for all of the risks, so it may take some some significant time."},{"i":224,"s":"SPEAKER_11","t":"Okay, no, I appreciate that. Thank you."},{"i":225,"s":"SPEAKER_11","t":"I guess it's sort of how to how to replicate that for all the other risks."},{"i":226,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"Yeah, I think I think that's that's a good point and uh thank you uh CFO Tucker. Uh definitely, you know, the the the uh having those uh parameters defined in terms of the dollars is is more of a"},{"i":227,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"More of available data that is that is there. And in terms of, you know, I in the past also when we've been at the audit committee, we've always expressed the view that risk management is both an art and a science, right? The science part can be managed through numbers. The art part is where we talk about culture, we talk about acceptance, we talk about how people think of risk management, whether it's a compliance exercise or is it something that value adds to the overall uh to the overall uh uh function functioning of the organization. So I think that you know, uh as uh CAO Duckworth mentioned that you know if you see our our journey, right? We started from somewhere on our risk maturity where we where we follow the uh RIMS, risk and insurance management society, risk maturity model. We've moved along our risk maturity, and uh there are there are aspects of you know uh uh availability of data."},{"i":228,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"Which which is a challenge."},{"i":229,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"And to that, there are certain initiatives like the corporate data hub, where we are trying to bring in the information at least at a organizational level when it comes to performance measures, the key risk metrics, and other important uh metrics that help in understand better understanding of how the organization is functioning. So, to your point, uh I think we it's a good point to note that it has to be a time-driven exercise and it cannot drive out drive out for for infinite indefinite time. So that is where if you see those initiatives where we are trying to define those limits in terms of the key risk metrics, defining those risk appetite and rent tolerance, have those conversations with the audit committee. And I'm very happy that we are having these conversations today, and then have those conversations with the council as well to understand, to have that collective understanding of why uh risk management is important and how it drives uh the functioning of the municipal government."},{"i":230,"s":"SPEAKER_11","t":"Good, thank you very much. So it sounds a little bit like first step is to get council to sort of give you that"},{"i":231,"s":"SPEAKER_11","t":"high-level overview of we are comfortable here and we are not comfortable here, and then you can start to drive that down. So it's first council, then it'll start to trickle down, and you'll figure out how to actually"},{"i":232,"s":"SPEAKER_11","t":"measure, manage, report, sometimes in a in a space where you may not have all the data that you'd like, but that'll be that'll be the journey."},{"i":233,"s":"SPEAKER_11","t":"Good. Awesome. Thank you."},{"i":234,"s":"SPEAKER_11","t":"And I am done."},{"i":235,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Great. Thank you."},{"i":236,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Are you in there? Okay. Councillor Pencilopoulos."},{"i":237,"s":"SPEAKER_02","t":"Thanks so much. Just uh just picking up from what the public members stated, um that that shared ownership of risk. And you know, a few months ago, a few minutes ago we just talked about the water main, and one of the re issues that were out of the report came a consensus culture, and that put a chill down my spine because what what the report identified in the particular was that the the members of the team, not because of lack of competency, there just wasn't that decision tree coming up. There was one owner top of house, and of course, by the time it got to the top, the risks were just not identified. And and and a report to this audit committee a few months ago uh about the IT system and a very similar they didn't use the word consensus culture, but there was sort of again, there was decentralized decision making or something along those lines, and and I put together. So so when I heard you say that, shared risks, and it a little shivered down my spine because that's where we're at, and and we came out of here. So so maybe just"},{"i":238,"s":"SPEAKER_02","t":"Just just just talk about that is is we just came out and and you know we had a very uh negative experience in one scenario. Uh there was maybe not a commitment, but we identified that. That's coming up now clearly."},{"i":239,"s":"SPEAKER_02","t":"Yeah, how how do we get it? That was a big concern in the water, and how do we not uh run into the same problem roads and sewer and"},{"i":240,"s":"SPEAKER_04","t":"I'll take a crack of that."},{"i":241,"s":"SPEAKER_02","t":"thank you so much."},{"i":242,"s":"SPEAKER_04","t":"It's not uncommon in local government to have a consensus-based decision-making model. This organization has had it for decades. In the third quarter of last year, the executive leadership team launched a decision new decision making framework for the entire organization. So we presented that to our 350 top leaders. I think it was last October or November November. Essentially, so if you as an example, so you've got five directors that are responsible to provide a service. We'll use something in the water utility as an example."},{"i":243,"s":"SPEAKER_04","t":"Rather than looking for five directors to come to consensus on a decision, the first thing that they're required to do with our new framework is to determine of those five who is the decision maker. They determine who is the decision maker. Once that is done, then they have their discussions. At the end of the day, it's up to that one person to make a decision. If they can't make a decision, they escalate to their general manager. If the general manager can't make a decision, they've escalated to CIO. If he can't, it escalates to me. So we launched that in the third quarter of last year. We're still in the process of transcending that through the organization, but uh that should give you a little bit of comfort that we're moving in the direction away from consensus based decisions. We will still do that, but where there's critical decisions to be made, it's important to have a single decision maker."},{"i":244,"s":"SPEAKER_02","t":"Go ahead, please."},{"i":245,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"Just wanted to clarify, uh, Councillor Pentasepolis. Uh to my response to uh public member Nikar was regarding the shared uh ownership of risk, where I mentioned that"},{"i":246,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"every principal corporate risk is owned by a general manager. When we go to the executive leadership team, we have a conversation on the overall risk profile in terms of if there is any trade-off of risk conversation or if there is anything that we have missed in our analysis in bringing that report together. So the intent was not to move towards a shared ownership of risk. It was about having a collective understanding of the overall risk profile of the city that that I was trying to emphasize. So my apologies if I"},{"i":247,"s":"SPEAKER_02","t":"I I messed misheard. I think but that was important. My next question was going to be there's a clear ownership of risk. You can look, he or she owns this, and then there's an accountability. And I think the accountability probably needs to be flushed out for another day, like ultimately, is there you know KPIs? Because it kind of bends into you, you know, I think there was a conversation finance. With all due respect to the this CFO, it's easy. There's dollars and cents. You know, you can you have a $100 budget, you can allocate it to 10 people, it's $10. And 11's bad, 10's good, nine's better. You know, of course I've simplified your you know, your $10 billion organization, but uh um but the ones that don't have where there aren't KPIs and there aren't, what are we measuring towards? And and maybe just talk about how critical those are. So your junior team member that sees some risks that needs to elevate, but if they don't know the goals and they sort of tie back when there's not, maybe just speak to that how critical you're gonna be looking at as we come into budget as we come set those those KPIs. Uh for those really intangible groups, you you know, that like make Calgaryans feel better and and yeah, versus the dollars and cents, you know, here's your budget meet. How how critical and how is your involvement gonna be in making sure they tie back to identifying or risk has been incorporated into those? Excuse me."},{"i":248,"s":"SPEAKER_12","t":"I can start. I think one piece that is helpful is when we're looking at risk, as as Sajin mentioned earlier, it's both qualitative and quantitative. And when we talk about escalating risks and having risk conversations, we will emphasize as much as we can quantified objective bands, but we're not going to be able to get away from the fact that there is judgment involved."},{"i":249,"s":"SPEAKER_02","t":"Of course."},{"i":250,"s":"SPEAKER_12","t":"And so part of what we're doing is working with leadership teams. I've been speaking to a lot of different leadership teams at different levels throughout the organization, not just at the top level, but decision makers throughout, and talking about okay, what does this look like when you're applying it in your different areas? So that that'll be part of the training is also just looking at the kind of risk conversations we have, the kind of risk information we have. Sure, that's all helpful, and then how we're applying it. And so some of that we can use in terms of our standards and our guidance that we apply throughout the organization, but some of that is also going to be working with the risk experts as well as the decision makers themselves and kind of building that into their processes and their conversations."},{"i":251,"s":"SPEAKER_02","t":"And you feel you have enough uh I'll use the word teeth. And the only reason to bring that up is we just had a council, um, the engagement team. And in the engagement team, there was a line from the consultant that said they they feel like consultants, and and what that is, you know, consultant can advise. You just mentioned that you went to the groups and said, I've got a great idea. And the fear is people say, You're not there to run their business. They go, Thank you very much. As you do a consultant report, I'm just gonna put it over here. You know, I'll date myself, file another tea for trash, sort of thing. So so do you feel that when it's something critical, I get it. Your job is not to run parks and and and mobility and things. However, if if you identify in those those best practice, that you can actually say, hey, a little bit more teeth into it, do you do you feel you're there, or is it part of that the journey we speak of?"},{"i":252,"s":"SPEAKER_12","t":"Yeah, I mean this is one advantage. So as we're not an external consultant, right? We are embedded in the organization. We are in the CAO's office. So when we work with groups, we do have that on our side. And we're not simply then necessarily making recommendations. Sometimes we make recommendations, we'll leave this with you, you can manage it. But then we do have other options of working within the organization. If we feel that it's it's our job to support the risk more different ways, then we we do have some tools we can do."},{"i":253,"s":"SPEAKER_02","t":"Thank you, Madam Chair."},{"i":254,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Thanks. Um"},{"i":255,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"I just have a couple questions. So we talked about how council needs to come and help find council's version of risk, but yet council still needs the understanding of"},{"i":256,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"a clear understanding of where the risk of this organization lies. We'll go back to the feeder main. So"},{"i":257,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"when the organization and the people who complete the survey evaluated the risk of the feeder main, they're said there was a low likelihood of failure, but a high impact when it does. And it was a risk that the organization was able to say, well."},{"i":258,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"The engineering report says this is a hundred year pipe and we're about fifty, so we're gonna"},{"i":259,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"be okay with that risk. That was a failure of risk evaluation in my mind by the engineers. There was no searching of"},{"i":260,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"recent publications or publications in the last fifty years of the uh"},{"i":261,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Known failures of PCCP pipe. Like we kept a blind willful blindness spot in our risk analysis by relying on surveys and not actually saying, is there a step to look for papers written or known incidences of failure on the feeder main pipe? Now, where can we actually start working that into our risk analysis? Because as someone who has to complete a lot of surveys, depending on how much deliverables I have to do, you'll just click through it and go, meh, oh, roughly rated here, not based on"},{"i":262,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"a true understanding, but on my bias of the moment I am completing that survey."},{"i":263,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"So how do we actually start taking that organization in?"},{"i":264,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"In the survey, have you done an actual"},{"i":265,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"uh research step to figure out what new information has been put on the market for that risk you're evaluating?"},{"i":266,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"I can start, Councillor Vinus. Uh to your specific uh question about the risk evaluation of the conditionality of an asset, the the the uh and"},{"i":267,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Yeah."},{"i":268,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"The risk survey that we give out across the organization is based on the RIMS risk maturity model and it has specific questions on more about the framework of risk management. I'm afraid we do not have specific risk management questions around certain assets within the organization or at a you know how how those uh risks are being managed at an operational level. So this is something we can take away and see how you know we need to engage with our operational services in understanding what kind of uh mechanism can be helpful to capture some of that risk analysis or risk evaluation."},{"i":269,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Yeah, because I think we need to start going there, given even when it comes to transit, that the failures that happen on our C train lines, uh, we're not actually making changes. You look at the number of people who have tragically jumped in front of a C train, that's a known risk. That's a risk that impacts that hundreds of thousands of people who ride our transit system, and we continue to accept and normalize that someone will get run over by a C train. And I haven't seen a change in that department to say, what are we gonna do to reduce that risk? There are no fencing changes like."},{"i":270,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"When we have to cross the C train tracks during Stampede we put security guards out because we have a large volume of people at those tracks. But we're also opening up our system to be more low flow and accessible, yet we have a known risk of disruption that the organization again is staying blind to."},{"i":271,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"D do you want to speak on that?"},{"i":272,"s":"SPEAKER_04","t":"I was just gonna say, just in general, to your original line of questioning, um you heard and it's stated in the report that council administration shares um the setting of the risk appetite and risk tolerance, and there's a policy. I think we could probably benefit for having a workshop with council at one of our strategic sessions. Maybe we can go through that policy, we can go through our framework, we can look at some of the the appetite that we have for certain risks and their tolerances, and we can I think it probably makes sense that we actually, and just leaning on my team here to take this away now, but I think it makes sense that we actually have a good fulsome workshop to workshop this, um, just so that we have a good understanding. We have definitions and things out there, but maybe they don't meet the grade today for this council. And I think it just makes sense that we go through it. So we'll take that away and we'll try and plan that here soon, fairly urgently, with council at an upcoming strategic workshop."},{"i":273,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Yeah, because I e even as uh CFO Tucker pointed out, the FSR and the long-range financial plan, council is still writing notices of motion to drain the FSR. Like we do not have a line of sight clearly"},{"i":274,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"for counselors to write noms to pull from the FSR. We it it's just our go to."},{"i":275,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"And and that is a dangerous precedent because again, we are creating that bow wave"},{"i":276,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"for this organization when it comes to the next four year plan. I'm gonna start calling plans because it's a four year plan and a one year budget."},{"i":277,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"And"},{"i":278,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"council needs to start understanding clearly about those NOMS impacts on your one-year budget, four-year plan. And it's we are very blind to it from where I sit. And I would like to find a way for us to create clarity for this council quicker"},{"i":279,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"and and simpler because at this point there's a number of notices of motion that are written without an understanding of the risk they create to this organization, uh how they uh take."},{"i":280,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"the organization off of uh a trajectory that has taken years to even get it on that trajectory, uh thinking that council's actually given a positive change to the organization. We are very blind to the impacts of the"},{"i":281,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"the notices motion rewrite in this organization and whether they're good or disruptive."},{"i":282,"s":"SPEAKER_04","t":"So Councillor Williams, we'll take this away. We'll plan a workshop with Council and I just wanted to use an example how risk appetite actually shows up in your budget. So for example, Council may want to have our water means zero leakage or zero breaks."},{"i":283,"s":"SPEAKER_04","t":"If you did that, you'd be replacing the entire 5,000 kilometer network every 10 years. Like it would be not financially sustainable, which is why you accept a certain level of risk. So I think it's really important that we can go through with council. It can show you like the top ones that you need to pay attention to. And when you make adjustments, it actually shows up in the budget, either positively or negatively. So I think council as a whole, to your point, would benefit from that because from every action there's a reaction. For every nom, there's maybe a budget adjustment, right? And you need to understand that. And so I think it's just a really good opportunity to have this discussion with council on a more fulsome level."},{"i":284,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Okay. Um"},{"i":285,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"And then the art and science analogy, I I as someone who has to govern, art is very subjective. We can have people look at the same picture and all come up with different conclusions and different interpretations. I think when it comes to this, we need to be less art and a little bit more science. Uh because the art side of it is getting us into trouble."},{"i":286,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"And"},{"i":287,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"and I think like"},{"i":288,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"this report, even in the the analysis, as a uh I expect it's a bit different, and maybe that's just the the growing pains of the transition your department's going through. Uh because I'm used to a lot more when we t tackle risk and and I'm a little bit let down by this report given I usually have a lot more to bite into."},{"i":289,"s":"SPEAKER_00","t":"Yeah, I think uh this is more of foreshadowing what you will see in the July report. We wanted to have a uh dedicated session with you in terms with the audit committee in terms of understanding you know the what we are anchoring our uh approach on in terms of uh the risk tolerance and risk appetite, so that when you get to the July report, you will see some of that being actioned in the in the uh media principal corporate risk."},{"i":290,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Okay, great. Um I'll I look forward to taking more of those offline because it we're at that stage with this report."},{"i":291,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Okay, uh who would like to move this?"},{"i":292,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Uh public member McDonald will move."},{"i":293,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"And then when clerks are ready, please send us to EScribe."},{"i":294,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Thank you guys for your report."},{"i":295,"s":"SPEAKER_12","t":"Thank you."},{"i":296,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"I think the council is burying out e scribe."},{"i":297,"s":"SPEAKER_03","t":"Technical difficulties."},{"i":298,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Yeah."},{"i":299,"s":"SPEAKER_03","t":"Here we go."},{"i":300,"s":"SPEAKER_03","t":"All the votes are in."},{"i":301,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Please display the votes."},{"i":302,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Motion is carried unanimously."},{"i":303,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"That will now take us to the next item, which is 7.3."},{"i":304,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"City Auditors Report."},{"i":305,"s":"SPEAKER_06","t":"Thank you. Good morning, Chair, members of Audit Committee. I'm Liz Ormsby, City Auditor."},{"i":306,"s":"SPEAKER_06","t":"The report I'm presenting today is AC 20260445, the City Auditor's Office 2027 External Quality Assessment. The recommendations are that Audit Committee direct the City Auditor's Office to initiate procurement of a resource to complete an external quality assessment in accordance with the recommendation as provided in the attachment, and recommend that the attachment and any closed meeting discussions remain confidential in relation to the Access to Information Act."},{"i":307,"s":"SPEAKER_06","t":"As a little bit of background, quality underpins the work of the City Auditor's Office. It's vital that the audits we present to Audit Committee are independent, objective, and adhere to professional standards to support accountability and transparency."},{"i":308,"s":"SPEAKER_06","t":"Confirmation by an external assessor that we continue to conform to professional audit standards is a key part of that accountability and transparency. Even auditors are subject to audits, and we found great value add in the past assessments that have been completed."},{"i":309,"s":"SPEAKER_06","t":"The City Auditor's Office conforms to the Institute of Internal Auditors Global Internal Audit Standards. These standards require an external quality assessment to be conducted every five years."},{"i":310,"s":"SPEAKER_06","t":"Our last assessment was completed in May 2022, so it's now time for us to prepare for our next assessment to take place in the first half of 2027."},{"i":311,"s":"SPEAKER_06","t":"The attachment to this report sets out the proposed approach, and I'm seeking Audit Committee direction to initiate procurement of a resource to conduct the assessment. I'm happy to address any questions from committee."},{"i":312,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"I'm not seeing any questions."},{"i":313,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Alright, this is very good."},{"i":314,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Okay, can I seek a we don't have to go in camera for any of this, so I'll seek a mover."},{"i":315,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Uh"},{"i":316,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"uh"},{"i":317,"s":"SPEAKER_03","t":"Apologies. Are we going into in camera for this or"},{"i":318,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Does it no one have any confidential questions? No?"},{"i":319,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"No?"},{"i":320,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Okay, so then I'm gonna get"},{"i":321,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Councillor Jameson to move."},{"i":322,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"And then when you're ready, you scribe to vote."},{"i":323,"s":"SPEAKER_03","t":"Chair? All the votes are in."},{"i":324,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Display the vote."},{"i":325,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Motion is carried unanimously. We do have some in camera business we do need to get to, so that will be our next step."},{"i":326,"s":"SPEAKER_03","t":"And could we please get a mover to go in uh or enclosed?"},{"i":327,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Councillor Clark to move in closed"},{"i":328,"s":"SPEAKER_03","t":"Thank you."},{"i":329,"s":"SPEAKER_03","t":"Closed."},{"i":330,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"and you scribe when it's ready."},{"i":331,"s":"SPEAKER_03","t":"Clark."},{"i":332,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Do you need a minute? It's okay."},{"i":333,"s":"SPEAKER_03","t":"Yeah, we're good."},{"i":334,"s":"SPEAKER_03","t":"Councillor Jameson, your vote, please."},{"i":335,"s":"SPEAKER_03","t":"Thank you."},{"i":336,"s":"SPEAKER_03","t":"And Councillor Pantozopoulos, your vote, please."},{"i":337,"s":"SPEAKER_03","t":"Thank you. All the votes are in."},{"i":338,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Motion please display the vote."},{"i":339,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Motion is carried unanimously. Please log off at this teams. You'll get a closed link and we will transfer to in camera."},{"i":340,"s":"SPEAKER_01","t":"The audit committee is about to reconvene in open session. Please make your way back."},{"i":341,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"July."},{"i":342,"s":"SPEAKER_09","t":"Oh it's yeah, Calgary Housing,"},{"i":343,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"That's another flag."},{"i":344,"s":"SPEAKER_09","t":"Cish Creek."},{"i":345,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Yeah."},{"i":346,"s":"SPEAKER_09","t":"Oh, is in June."},{"i":347,"s":"SPEAKER_09","t":"Yeah."},{"i":348,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Yeah."},{"i":349,"s":"SPEAKER_09","t":"That's the much of a brother in the Civic Partner Audit Report."},{"i":350,"s":"SPEAKER_09","t":"And"},{"i":351,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Yes."},{"i":352,"s":"SPEAKER_09","t":"shareholder, shareholder alignment."},{"i":353,"s":"SPEAKER_09","t":"Audit committee self-assessment."},{"i":354,"s":"SPEAKER_09","t":"So I'll be sending that out."},{"i":355,"s":"SPEAKER_03","t":"Ready to go."},{"i":356,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Alright. Is everyone ready?"},{"i":357,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Roll call, please."},{"i":358,"s":"SPEAKER_03","t":"Thank you, Chair, to confirm quorum. Councillor Jameson."},{"i":359,"s":"SPEAKER_11","t":"Present."},{"i":360,"s":"SPEAKER_03","t":"Councillor Clark? Councillor Pantozopoulos."},{"i":361,"s":"SPEAKER_03","t":"Public Member Kim? Here. Public Member McDonald? Here. Public Member Niker. And Councillor Weness."},{"i":362,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Yep."},{"i":363,"s":"SPEAKER_03","t":"Thank you. We have quorum."},{"i":364,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Alright, Ryzen report by Councillor Clark. All in favor?"},{"i":365,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Motion is carried unanimously."},{"i":366,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"That moves us to the"},{"i":367,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"9.2.3"},{"i":368,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"uh moved by council or public I sorry I gave you a raise. Uh public public member McDonald."},{"i":369,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"And when clerks are ready, please send us to EScribe."},{"i":370,"s":"SPEAKER_03","t":"Councillor Clark, your vote, please."},{"i":371,"s":"SPEAKER_03","t":"Thank you."},{"i":372,"s":"SPEAKER_03","t":"And all the votes are in."},{"i":373,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Please just by the vote."},{"i":374,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Motion is carried unanimously."},{"i":375,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"There are no briefing notes on today's agenda, so I will now seek a mover to adjourn."},{"i":376,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Public member Kim."},{"i":377,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"All in favor?"},{"i":378,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Meeting is"},{"i":379,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"adjourned."},{"i":380,"s":"SPEAKER_10","t":"Thank you for your hard work, everyone."}]} IDENTITY ANCHORS (prioritize in this order): # noqa: E501 1. DIRECT ROLL CALL (Highest Priority - 99% Confidence): # noqa: E501 - When Clerk calls "Councillor [Name]?" and next speaker says "Here"/"Present"/"Yes", that speaker IS [Name] # noqa: E501 - Map BOTH the clerk's call AND the councillor's response # noqa: E501 - This pattern is extremely reliable - always use it when detected # noqa: E501 EXAMPLE: [2] "Councillor Kelly," → City Clerk [3] "Here." → Councillor Kelly 2. EXPLICIT HAND-OFFS (95% Confidence): # noqa: E501 - "Thank you, Councillor [Name]" → previous speaker is [Name] - "Over to you, [Title] [Name]" → next speaker is [Name] - "I'll turn it over to [Name]" → next speaker is [Name] EXAMPLE: [72] "Thank you, Councillor Chabot." → Councillor Chabot was the previous speaker [73] Next speaker → Likely the person who thanked them (Mayor/Chair) 3. SELF-IDENTIFICATION (98% Confidence): # noqa: E501 - "I'm [Name], [Title]" or "This is [Name] speaking" - "My name is [Name]" EXAMPLE: [113] "My name is John Pantazopoulos" → Councillor Pantazopoulos 4. DIARIZATION MERGES (Mixed Clusters): # noqa: E501 - SPEAKER_XX labels often contain multiple different real speakers (e.g., in roll calls). # noqa: E501 - If a SPEAKER_XX has already been mapped to "Mayor", but in a specific segment they are clearly a "Councillor" (due to a roll call or hand-off), you MUST override that specific segment. # noqa: E501 - Use the `refined_indices` field to provide these segment-level overrides. # noqa: E501 - Do not assume a SPEAKER_XX label is consistent across the whole meeting; only propagate an identity within clearly contiguous stretches where surrounding context supports it. # noqa: E501 - IMPORTANT: Only provide `speaker_mappings` for SPEAKER_XX labels that are stable/consistent (one real person). # noqa: E501 For mixed clusters (where one SPEAKER_XX clearly covers multiple people), DO NOT set `speaker_mappings` for that SPEAKER_XX. # noqa: E501 In those cases, rely solely on `refined_indices` for segment-level identities so cross-chunk hints are not biased by mixed clusters. # noqa: E501 5. PHONETIC MATCHING: - Transcription often errors: "Pawn Topolos" → "Pantazopoulos" - Match phonetically similar names from participant list 6. CONSECUTIVE SEGMENT PATTERNS (95% Confidence): # noqa: E501 - If SPEAKER_XX speaks for 10+ consecutive segments on the same topic - AND you can identify them in ANY segment (via hand-off, self-ID, or context) - Then apply that identity to ALL consecutive segments EXAMPLE: [100-150] All SPEAKER_15 discussing budget policy [125] "As I mentioned in my opening remarks..." → Links to earlier [140] Mayor says "Thank you, Councillor Chabot" CONCLUSION: Map ALL of [100-150] as "Councillor Chabot" 7. ADMINISTRATION TITLE HANDOFF (95% Confidence): - City staff (Chief Financial Officer, City Manager, General Manager, City Solicitor, etc.) are usually introduced by TITLE rather than by name. - When the transcript mentions a title (e.g., "I'll turn it over to our Chief Financial Officer", "Thank you, Mr. City Manager", "Administration, please respond"), and that title (exact or close substring match) appears as the role of an entry on the Expected Speakers list, attribute the introduced (or preceding "thank you") segment to the roster entry carrying that role. - This rule is SUBORDINATE to councillor patterns: if a councillor anchor (roll call, hand-off, self-ID) already attributes a segment, do not override it with a title match. - If two roster entries share the same title, leave the segment unmapped. - If a title appears in the transcript but no roster entry carries it, leave the segment unmapped. EXAMPLE: [142] "I'll turn it over to our Chief Financial Officer for the budget update." [143] SPEAKER_26 ...budget commentary... Roster contains: "- Chief Financial Officer Carla Male" CONCLUSION: Map [143] as "Carla Male" EXAMPLE: [218] SPEAKER_07 ...budget commentary... [219] "Thank you, Mr. City Manager." Roster contains: "- City Manager David Duckworth" CONCLUSION: SPEAKER_07 at [218] is "David Duckworth" SPECIAL PATTERN - Roll Call Sequences: When you detect a roll call (Clerk calling names + responses): 1. Identify the sequence: "Councillor X," "Here," "Councillor Y," "Present," etc. 2. Map EVERY segment in the sequence: - All name calls → City Clerk - Each response → That specific Councillor 3. Use `refined_indices` for each segment in the roll call to ensure accuracy, even if multiple people share the same SPEAKER_XX label. 4. This is a 99% confidence pattern - always apply it fully CRITICAL RULES: - SPEAKER_XX labels are UNRELIABLE and may switch during the meeting - Re-evaluate EVERY segment independently using text context - Track "Floor Holder": Chair/Mayor speaks most frequently to facilitate - Format names EXACTLY as shown in Expected Speakers list (e.g., "Councillor Kelly", "Mayor J. Farkas", "City Clerk") - Use ONLY names provided in the Expected Speakers list - Return mappings where confidence is HIGH (≥95%) - Prioritize patterns (roll call, hand-offs) over isolated cues - BE AGGRESSIVE: In a typical council meeting, you should identify at least 60-80% of segments, and up to 100% if the context allows. Only identify segments where confidence is HIGH (≥95%). If you can't reach ≥95% confidence, leave the segment unmapped rather than guessing to meet the 60-80% goal. - USE OVERRIDES: In a roll call, different councillors often get merged into the same SPEAKER_XX label. You MUST provide segment-level mappings in `refined_indices` for each "Here"/"Present" response. - Only leave segments unmapped if: (1) speaker not in expected list, (2) audio unclear, (3) truly ambiguous - Use context: If a SPEAKER_XX has been speaking for 20+ consecutive segments about a topic, they're likely the same person throughout that stretch OUTPUT FORMAT: Return sparse JSON with only high-confidence identifications: {"refined_indices": {"0": "City Clerk", "2": "Mayor J. Farkas", "5": "Councillor Kelly"}, "speaker_mappings": {"SPEAKER_00": "City Clerk", "SPEAKER_01": "Mayor J. Farkas"}} Return ONLY JSON.
20:35:08 [DEBUG] ================================================================================
20:35:08 [DEBUG] Prompt being sent to API:
20:35:08 [INFO] ================================================================================
20:35:08 [INFO] Councillor J. Wyness, Councillor M. Jamieson, Councillor H. Clark, Councillor J. Pantazopoulos, Chief Administrative Officer D. Duckworth, General Manager K. Black, General Manager D. Morgan, Chief Financial Officer L. Tochor, City Auditor L. Ormsby, External Auditor H. Gill, Executive Advisor C. Smillie, A/City Clerk S. Lancashire, Legislative Specialist A. Adegunwa, Public Speaker There were no public speakers at this meeting.
20:35:08 [INFO] ================================================================================
20:35:08 [INFO] Speaker list being used:
20:35:08 [INFO] ========================================
20:35:08 [INFO] Expected speakers: 14
20:35:08 [INFO] Segments: 381
20:35:08 [INFO] Model: gemini-2.5-pro
20:35:08 [INFO] STARTING SPEAKER REFINEMENT (ASYNC)
20:35:08 [INFO] ========================================
20:35:01 [INFO] Starting speaker refinement
20:35:00 [INFO] Cleanup completed: 9 segments corrected
20:35:00 [INFO] {"step": "cleanup", "status": "completed", "updated_at": "2026-09-04T14:35:00.465681-06:00", "applied_count": 9}
20:35:00 [INFO] {"step": "cleanup", "status": "processing", "updated_at": "2026-09-04T14:35:00.203734-06:00"}
20:35:00 [INFO] Starting name cleanup step
20:35:00 [INFO] Diarization completed and attached: /tmp/tmp3b7aygr7/8911744e-9a15-474a-b2a5-ba4c74249c15.mkv.diarization.pyannote.json
20:35:00 [INFO] Diarization completed successfully!
20:35:00 [INFO] {"step": "diarization", "status": "completed", "updated_at": "2026-09-04T14:35:00.162123-06:00", "output_path": "/tmp/tmp3b7aygr7/8911744e-9a15-474a-b2a5-ba4c74249c15.mkv.diarization.pyannote.json"}
20:34:59 [INFO] Extracted 381 turn-based segments
20:34:59 [INFO] Diarization results saved to /tmp/tmp3b7aygr7/8911744e-9a15-474a-b2a5-ba4c74249c15.mkv.diarization.pyannote.json
20:34:59 [INFO] Job completed! Retrieving results...
20:34:59 [INFO] Job status: completed
20:34:59 [INFO] Speaker diarization completed
20:34:59 [INFO] Speaker diarization completed
20:34:59 [INFO] Poll #12: Status: succeeded
20:34:48 [INFO] Poll #11: Status: running
20:34:38 [INFO] Poll #10: Status: running
20:34:28 [INFO] Poll #9: Status: running
20:34:17 [INFO] Poll #8: Status: running
20:34:07 [INFO] Poll #7: Status: running
20:33:57 [INFO] Poll #6: Status: running
20:33:46 [INFO] Poll #5: Status: running
20:33:36 [INFO] Poll #4: Status: running
20:33:26 [INFO] Poll #3: Status: running
20:33:16 [INFO] Poll #2: Status: running
20:33:05 [INFO] Poll #1: Status: running
20:32:55 [INFO] Diarization job started (Job ID: c913a96c-a78e-4c23-9b6a-8fc416484e89). Processing audio...
20:32:55 [INFO] Submitting diarization + transcription job to pyannote.ai (URL: https://ccai-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/9e9a4ae9-3777-4533-9408-e0600207b4a1.wav?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=AKIAQK6LNXA7XP5KSEWG%2F20260904%2Fca-central-1%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20260904T203254Z&X-Amz-Expires=3600&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Signature=b7707862d5e20d178973b11e9a35c0dff91e5062e979ce9a35a349033d81b1ff)
20:32:55 [INFO] Starting speaker diarization via pyannote.ai API
20:32:55 [INFO] Starting speaker diarization via pyannote.ai API
20:32:54 [INFO] Using S3 pre-signed URL for diarization
20:32:54 [INFO] {"step": "diarization", "status": "processing", "updated_at": "2026-09-04T14:32:54.861916-06:00"}
20:32:54 [INFO] Starting transcription + diarization
20:32:54 [INFO] Audio extracted and attached: /tmp/tmp3b7aygr7/8911744e-9a15-474a-b2a5-ba4c74249c15.wav
20:32:54 [INFO] {"step": "extraction", "status": "completed", "updated_at": "2026-09-04T14:32:54.852027-06:00", "wav_path": "/tmp/tmp3b7aygr7/8911744e-9a15-474a-b2a5-ba4c74249c15.wav"}
20:32:53 [INFO] Audio extracted to /tmp/tmp3b7aygr7/8911744e-9a15-474a-b2a5-ba4c74249c15.wav
20:32:34 [INFO] Extracting audio to WAV format
20:32:34 [INFO] Extracting audio to WAV format
20:32:34 [INFO] {"step": "extraction", "status": "processing", "updated_at": "2026-09-04T14:32:34.377397-06:00"}
20:32:34 [INFO] Starting audio extraction
20:32:29 [INFO] Downloading video from S3 for processing
20:27:03 [ERROR] Step full failed: pyannote job failed
20:27:03 [INFO] {"step": "diarization", "status": "failed", "updated_at": "2026-09-04T14:27:03.163841-06:00", "error": "pyannote job failed"}
20:27:03 [ERROR] Pyannote job previously failed, marking as failed
20:27:02 [INFO] Using S3 pre-signed URL for diarization
20:27:02 [INFO] {"step": "diarization", "status": "processing", "updated_at": "2026-09-04T14:27:02.711231-06:00"}
20:27:02 [INFO] Starting transcription + diarization
20:27:02 [INFO] Audio extracted and attached: /tmp/tmplitvbsnr/8911744e-9a15-474a-b2a5-ba4c74249c15.wav
20:27:02 [INFO] {"step": "extraction", "status": "completed", "updated_at": "2026-09-04T14:27:02.700824-06:00", "wav_path": "/tmp/tmplitvbsnr/8911744e-9a15-474a-b2a5-ba4c74249c15.wav"}
20:27:00 [INFO] Audio extracted to /tmp/tmplitvbsnr/8911744e-9a15-474a-b2a5-ba4c74249c15.wav
20:26:42 [INFO] Extracting audio to WAV format
20:26:42 [INFO] Extracting audio to WAV format
20:26:42 [INFO] {"step": "extraction", "status": "processing", "updated_at": "2026-09-04T14:26:42.048587-06:00"}
20:26:42 [INFO] Starting audio extraction
20:26:37 [INFO] Downloading video from S3 for processing
20:26:02 [ERROR] Step full failed: pyannote job failed
20:26:02 [INFO] {"step": "diarization", "status": "failed", "updated_at": "2026-09-04T14:26:02.869097-06:00", "error": "pyannote job failed"}
20:26:02 [ERROR] Pyannote job previously failed, marking as failed
20:26:02 [INFO] Using S3 pre-signed URL for diarization
20:26:02 [INFO] {"step": "diarization", "status": "processing", "updated_at": "2026-09-04T14:26:02.344122-06:00"}
20:26:02 [INFO] Starting transcription + diarization
20:26:02 [INFO] Audio extracted and attached: /tmp/tmpg3e_bnh0/8911744e-9a15-474a-b2a5-ba4c74249c15.wav
20:26:02 [INFO] {"step": "extraction", "status": "completed", "updated_at": "2026-09-04T14:26:02.215426-06:00", "wav_path": "/tmp/tmpg3e_bnh0/8911744e-9a15-474a-b2a5-ba4c74249c15.wav"}
20:26:00 [INFO] Audio extracted to /tmp/tmpg3e_bnh0/8911744e-9a15-474a-b2a5-ba4c74249c15.wav
20:25:41 [INFO] Extracting audio to WAV format
20:25:41 [INFO] Extracting audio to WAV format
20:25:41 [INFO] {"step": "extraction", "status": "processing", "updated_at": "2026-09-04T14:25:41.482206-06:00"}
20:25:41 [INFO] Starting audio extraction
20:25:37 [INFO] Downloading video from S3 for processing
20:25:02 [ERROR] Step full failed: pyannote job failed
20:25:02 [INFO] {"step": "diarization", "status": "failed", "updated_at": "2026-09-04T14:25:02.140198-06:00", "error": "pyannote job failed"}
20:25:02 [ERROR] Pyannote job previously failed, marking as failed
20:25:01 [INFO] Using S3 pre-signed URL for diarization
20:25:01 [INFO] {"step": "diarization", "status": "processing", "updated_at": "2026-09-04T14:25:01.622505-06:00"}
20:25:01 [INFO] Starting transcription + diarization
20:25:01 [INFO] Audio extracted and attached: /tmp/tmpvrxo40o8/8911744e-9a15-474a-b2a5-ba4c74249c15.wav
20:25:01 [INFO] {"step": "extraction", "status": "completed", "updated_at": "2026-09-04T14:25:01.587784-06:00", "wav_path": "/tmp/tmpvrxo40o8/8911744e-9a15-474a-b2a5-ba4c74249c15.wav"}
20:24:59 [INFO] Audio extracted to /tmp/tmpvrxo40o8/8911744e-9a15-474a-b2a5-ba4c74249c15.wav
20:24:40 [INFO] Extracting audio to WAV format
20:24:40 [INFO] Extracting audio to WAV format
20:24:40 [INFO] {"step": "extraction", "status": "processing", "updated_at": "2026-09-04T14:24:40.978763-06:00"}
20:24:40 [INFO] Starting audio extraction
20:24:36 [INFO] Downloading video from S3 for processing
20:24:01 [ERROR] Step full failed: pyannote job failed
20:24:01 [INFO] {"step": "diarization", "status": "failed", "updated_at": "2026-09-04T14:24:01.930251-06:00", "error": "pyannote job failed"}
20:24:01 [ERROR] Pyannote job previously failed, marking as failed
20:24:01 [INFO] Using S3 pre-signed URL for diarization
20:24:01 [INFO] {"step": "diarization", "status": "processing", "updated_at": "2026-09-04T14:24:01.395390-06:00"}
20:24:01 [INFO] Starting transcription + diarization
20:24:01 [INFO] Audio extracted and attached: /tmp/tmpl2l_lduj/8911744e-9a15-474a-b2a5-ba4c74249c15.wav
20:24:01 [INFO] {"step": "extraction", "status": "completed", "updated_at": "2026-09-04T14:24:01.362787-06:00", "wav_path": "/tmp/tmpl2l_lduj/8911744e-9a15-474a-b2a5-ba4c74249c15.wav"}
20:23:59 [INFO] Audio extracted to /tmp/tmpl2l_lduj/8911744e-9a15-474a-b2a5-ba4c74249c15.wav
20:23:40 [INFO] Extracting audio to WAV format
20:23:40 [INFO] Extracting audio to WAV format
20:23:40 [INFO] {"step": "extraction", "status": "processing", "updated_at": "2026-09-04T14:23:40.794152-06:00"}
20:23:40 [INFO] Starting audio extraction
20:23:36 [INFO] Downloading video from S3 for processing
20:23:00 [ERROR] Step full failed: pyannote job failed
20:23:00 [INFO] {"step": "diarization", "status": "failed", "updated_at": "2026-09-04T14:23:00.970088-06:00", "error": "pyannote job failed"}
20:23:00 [ERROR] Pyannote job previously failed, marking as failed
20:23:00 [INFO] Using S3 pre-signed URL for diarization
20:23:00 [INFO] {"step": "diarization", "status": "processing", "updated_at": "2026-09-04T14:23:00.514274-06:00"}
20:23:00 [INFO] Starting transcription + diarization
20:23:00 [INFO] Audio extracted and attached: /tmp/tmpvwaa5htk/8911744e-9a15-474a-b2a5-ba4c74249c15.wav
20:23:00 [INFO] {"step": "extraction", "status": "completed", "updated_at": "2026-09-04T14:23:00.489066-06:00", "wav_path": "/tmp/tmpvwaa5htk/8911744e-9a15-474a-b2a5-ba4c74249c15.wav"}
20:22:58 [INFO] Audio extracted to /tmp/tmpvwaa5htk/8911744e-9a15-474a-b2a5-ba4c74249c15.wav
20:22:40 [INFO] Extracting audio to WAV format
20:22:40 [INFO] Extracting audio to WAV format
20:22:40 [INFO] {"step": "extraction", "status": "processing", "updated_at": "2026-09-04T14:22:40.170679-06:00"}
20:22:40 [INFO] Starting audio extraction
20:22:36 [INFO] Downloading video from S3 for processing
20:22:00 [ERROR] Step full failed: pyannote job failed
20:22:00 [INFO] {"step": "diarization", "status": "failed", "updated_at": "2026-09-04T14:22:00.763709-06:00", "error": "pyannote job failed"}
20:22:00 [ERROR] Pyannote job previously failed, marking as failed
20:22:00 [INFO] Using S3 pre-signed URL for diarization
20:22:00 [INFO] {"step": "diarization", "status": "processing", "updated_at": "2026-09-04T14:22:00.298868-06:00"}
20:22:00 [INFO] Starting transcription + diarization
20:22:00 [INFO] Audio extracted and attached: /tmp/tmp2lnjwzy3/8911744e-9a15-474a-b2a5-ba4c74249c15.wav
20:22:00 [INFO] {"step": "extraction", "status": "completed", "updated_at": "2026-09-04T14:22:00.285533-06:00", "wav_path": "/tmp/tmp2lnjwzy3/8911744e-9a15-474a-b2a5-ba4c74249c15.wav"}
20:21:58 [INFO] Audio extracted to /tmp/tmp2lnjwzy3/8911744e-9a15-474a-b2a5-ba4c74249c15.wav
20:21:39 [INFO] Extracting audio to WAV format
20:21:39 [INFO] Extracting audio to WAV format
20:21:39 [INFO] {"step": "extraction", "status": "processing", "updated_at": "2026-09-04T14:21:39.565156-06:00"}
20:21:39 [INFO] Starting audio extraction
20:21:35 [INFO] Downloading video from S3 for processing
20:21:00 [ERROR] Step full failed: pyannote job failed
20:21:00 [INFO] {"step": "diarization", "status": "failed", "updated_at": "2026-09-04T14:21:00.771207-06:00", "error": "pyannote job failed"}
20:21:00 [ERROR] Pyannote job previously failed, marking as failed
20:21:00 [INFO] Using S3 pre-signed URL for diarization
20:21:00 [INFO] {"step": "diarization", "status": "processing", "updated_at": "2026-09-04T14:21:00.280848-06:00"}
20:21:00 [INFO] Starting transcription + diarization
20:21:00 [INFO] Audio extracted and attached: /tmp/tmpfmgzyylz/8911744e-9a15-474a-b2a5-ba4c74249c15.wav
20:21:00 [INFO] {"step": "extraction", "status": "completed", "updated_at": "2026-09-04T14:21:00.175578-06:00", "wav_path": "/tmp/tmpfmgzyylz/8911744e-9a15-474a-b2a5-ba4c74249c15.wav"}
20:20:58 [INFO] Audio extracted to /tmp/tmpfmgzyylz/8911744e-9a15-474a-b2a5-ba4c74249c15.wav
20:20:39 [INFO] Extracting audio to WAV format
20:20:39 [INFO] Extracting audio to WAV format
20:20:39 [INFO] {"step": "extraction", "status": "processing", "updated_at": "2026-09-04T14:20:39.602066-06:00"}
20:20:39 [INFO] Starting audio extraction
20:20:35 [INFO] Downloading video from S3 for processing
20:20:00 [ERROR] Step full failed: pyannote job failed
20:20:00 [INFO] {"step": "diarization", "status": "failed", "updated_at": "2026-09-04T14:20:00.768941-06:00", "error": "pyannote job failed"}
20:20:00 [ERROR] Pyannote job previously failed, marking as failed
20:20:00 [INFO] Using S3 pre-signed URL for diarization
20:20:00 [INFO] {"step": "diarization", "status": "processing", "updated_at": "2026-09-04T14:20:00.245634-06:00"}
20:20:00 [INFO] Starting transcription + diarization
20:20:00 [INFO] Audio extracted and attached: /tmp/tmpe5nh63vn/8911744e-9a15-474a-b2a5-ba4c74249c15.wav
20:20:00 [INFO] {"step": "extraction", "status": "completed", "updated_at": "2026-09-04T14:20:00.220313-06:00", "wav_path": "/tmp/tmpe5nh63vn/8911744e-9a15-474a-b2a5-ba4c74249c15.wav"}
20:19:58 [INFO] Audio extracted to /tmp/tmpe5nh63vn/8911744e-9a15-474a-b2a5-ba4c74249c15.wav
20:19:39 [INFO] Extracting audio to WAV format
20:19:39 [INFO] Extracting audio to WAV format
20:19:39 [INFO] {"step": "extraction", "status": "processing", "updated_at": "2026-09-04T14:19:39.564820-06:00"}
20:19:39 [INFO] Starting audio extraction
20:19:35 [INFO] Downloading video from S3 for processing
18:14:30 [INFO] Job submitted successfully via webhook. Returning early.
18:14:30 [INFO] Webhooks enabled: https://ccai-api.pixeltree.ca/api/webhooks/pyannote
18:14:30 [INFO] Submitting diarization + transcription job to pyannote.ai (URL: https://ccai-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/3f11e4bb-b406-466a-a5ca-03e361988c08.wav?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=AKIAQK6LNXA7XP5KSEWG%2F20260904%2Fca-central-1%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20260904T181430Z&X-Amz-Expires=3600&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Signature=bdf3c35ccc03adbd03850b6dfde2f819fb98f6c360330d77ef62e42ff88303ff)
18:14:30 [INFO] Starting speaker diarization via pyannote.ai API
18:14:30 [INFO] Starting speaker diarization via pyannote.ai API
18:14:30 [INFO] Using S3 pre-signed URL for diarization
18:14:29 [INFO] {"step": "diarization", "status": "processing", "updated_at": "2026-09-04T12:14:29.928927-06:00"}
18:14:29 [INFO] Starting transcription + diarization
18:14:29 [INFO] Audio extracted and attached: /tmp/tmpwjqrkqbl/8911744e-9a15-474a-b2a5-ba4c74249c15.wav
18:14:29 [INFO] {"step": "extraction", "status": "completed", "updated_at": "2026-09-04T12:14:29.916710-06:00", "wav_path": "/tmp/tmpwjqrkqbl/8911744e-9a15-474a-b2a5-ba4c74249c15.wav"}
18:14:28 [INFO] Audio extracted to /tmp/tmpwjqrkqbl/8911744e-9a15-474a-b2a5-ba4c74249c15.wav
18:14:09 [INFO] Extracting audio to WAV format
18:14:09 [INFO] Extracting audio to WAV format
18:14:09 [INFO] {"step": "extraction", "status": "processing", "updated_at": "2026-09-04T12:14:09.550477-06:00"}
18:14:09 [INFO] Starting audio extraction
18:14:05 [INFO] Downloading video from S3 for processing
14:34:45 [INFO] Recording 967 complete