{ "file": "/tmp/tmptm11vk08/12956f3d-9599-40d7-90f2-40ec37b2619b.mkv", "segments": [ { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 895.965, "end": 897.525, "text": "Madam Clerk, can you do a roll call, please?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 899.405, "end": 901.365, "text": "Thank you on the role. Counselor Jameson," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 903.045, "end": 903.885, "text": "Counselor McLean," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 904.885, "end": 905.225, "text": "I'm here." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 906.125, "end": 907.365, "text": "Counselor Pontezopoulos," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 908.245, "end": 909.105, "text": "Councillor Schmidt," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 910.465, "end": 910.705, "text": "Here." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 910.945, "end": 912.445, "text": "Counselor Ward," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 913.525, "end": 914.485, "text": "Councilor Wyness," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 916.965, "end": 918.065, "text": "Counselor Atkinson," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 919.225, "end": 920.265, "text": "Counselor Clark," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 921.865, "end": 922.845, "text": "Counselor Dollywall," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 923.825, "end": 924.825, "text": "Counselor Johnston," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 926.465, "end": 926.725, "text": "Here." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 927.265, "end": 928.445, "text": "Councilor Kelly," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 928.605, "end": 928.965, "text": "Present." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 930.085, "end": 931.185, "text": "Counselor Tyres," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 932.325, "end": 933.105, "text": "Counselor Yule," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 934.185, "end": 935.045, "text": "Mayor Farkas," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 935.885, "end": 936.825, "text": "and Chair Shabot." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 937.425, "end": 937.705, "text": "Present" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 937.965, "end": 938.985, "text": "Thank you, Chair. We do have quorum." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 940.865, "end": 941.145, "text": "you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 942.865, "end": 944.945, "text": "Before we start, I'd like to do a land acknowledgement." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 945.805, "end": 949.405, "text": "Uh Oki, Abowastich, Danitada, Tansei." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 950.225, "end": 951.305, "text": "Indigenous peoples" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 951.725, "end": 952.085, "text": "have" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 952.545, "end": 957.005, "text": "their own names for this area that have been in use long before settlers named this place Calgary." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 959.085, "end": 960.465, "text": "In the Blackfoot language, it's called" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 960.745, "end": 961.665, "text": "Mokinstis." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 962.405, "end": 967.585, "text": "The Yetka Nakota Wiscotabi First Nations referred to this place as Wichispa Oyade," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 968.205, "end": 971.665, "text": "and the people of the Sutina nation call it Gutsis." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 972.545, "end": 975.325, "text": "The Metis called the Calgary area Otusquani." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 976.185, "end": 982.925, "text": "We appreciate and acknowledge that we are gathered on an ancestral and traditional territory of the Blackfoot Nations of the Siksica, the Bagani," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 983.245, "end": 987.385, "text": "the Gaini First Nations, the Yitka, Nakota, Wiscotabi First Nations," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 987.705, "end": 989.585, "text": "comprised of the Chinniki, Berespa," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 990.025, "end": 992.885, "text": "and Goodstoney First Nations, and the Sutina First Nations." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 993.425, "end": 997.105, "text": "The city of Calgary is also homeland to the historic Northwest Metis" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 997.505, "end": 999.045, "text": "and the Otipesawak" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 999.465, "end": 1000.385, "text": "Metis government." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 1000.585, "end": 1002.705, "text": "Metis Nation Battle River Territory," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 1003.565, "end": 1007.765, "text": "Nose Hill, Metis District 5, and Elbow Metis District 6." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 1008.245, "end": 1014.005, "text": "We acknowledge and give gratitude to the many First Nations, Metis and Inuit, who live here and call Calgary home." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 1016.805, "end": 1019.025, "text": "And we will go into" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 1020.005, "end": 1021.425, "text": "confirmation of" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 1021.625, "end": 1025.065, "text": "the agenda. Is there any changes to the agenda?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 1025.805, "end": 1027.025, "text": "Not seeing any. Somebody" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 1027.285, "end": 1027.625, "text": "move" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 1028.125, "end": 1028.705, "text": "confirmation." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 1029.025, "end": 1030.005, "text": "Councilor Pancesopolis." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 1030.925, "end": 1031.605, "text": "Any debate?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 1031.865, "end": 1034.765, "text": "Seeing none on the confirmation of the agenda are we agreed?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 1035.765, "end": 1038.105, "text": "Any opposed? Seeing none, that's carried." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 1038.585, "end": 1040.505, "text": "Uh next item is the" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 1040.945, "end": 1043.685, "text": "minutes. Confirmation of the minutes of uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 1044.525, "end": 1045.845, "text": "infrastructure for 2026" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 1045.985, "end": 1050.045, "text": "May 7th. I didn't see any errors. Rob, would like to move that? Councillor" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 1050.565, "end": 1050.885, "text": "Fort." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 1052.325, "end": 1057.005, "text": "Uh on that, any debate? On that, are we agreed? Any opposed? Seeing none, that's carried." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 1058.485, "end": 1060.605, "text": "All right, first item of business um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 1060.925, "end": 1063.605, "text": "water loss update. There's no consent item." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 1063.765, "end": 1065.465, "text": "And agenda items up for debate. So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 1067.065, "end": 1070.385, "text": "I can have administration come forward. I assume you have a presentation" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 1078.565, "end": 1079.265, "text": "whenever you're ready." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 1079.605, "end": 1080.025, "text": "Perfect." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 1081.245, "end": 1098.925, "text": "Good morning. Good. Okay. Good morning and thank you. My name is Monica Bramley and I'm the manager of utilities product development. Among other things, we're responsible for the long-range planning of infrastructure and strategic initiatives for water and waste and recycling. I'm joined today by Ryan Kidd, the Deputy Director of Potable Water and Water Services." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 1099.585, "end": 1137.365, "text": "This presentation provides an update on water loss within Calgary's water system, including current performance, actions underway to reduce water loss, and targets moving forward. Before we begin, it's important to recognize that while water loss may seem straightforward on the surface, such as simply finding and fixing leaks, it is a complex technical issue in a large and interconnected system. We'll walk through a high level overview today and touch on some of the technical details to help address questions that may arise. Reliable, safe, and sustainable water service is a priority, and reducing water loss is an important part of improving system efficiency and helping meet growing city and regional demand." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 1138.285, "end": 1139.065, "text": "Next slide, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 1143.385, "end": 1144.825, "text": "Uh-da. Sorry." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 1146.325, "end": 1174.585, "text": "Today we'll walk through the current state of water loss, how we measure and understand it, and the coordinated actions being implemented. This is an administrative-led report brought forward for council awareness and oversight. There is no previous council direction linked to this report. In previous years, water loss updates have been provided to council and public through a memo and a website update. This year, we wanted to take the opportunity to share this information with you directly, answer any questions, and develop a regular reporting cadence for this topic." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 1176.165, "end": 1176.945, "text": "Next slide, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 1178.045, "end": 1184.545, "text": "The recommendation is straightforward that the Infrastructure and Planning Committee recommend that Council receive this report for the corporate record." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 1186.065, "end": 1186.905, "text": "Next slide, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 1188.585, "end": 1242.285, "text": "We'll get into the details of these in the presentations, but here are some key points. As stated, reliable, safe, and sustainable water service for customers and citizens is our priority. Recent and future system challenges reinforce the need to reduce water loss and strengthen system resilience. Reducing water loss helps meet the growing demands of our city and regional customers, helps defer costly infrastructure expansion, and reduces impacts on the natural environment and rivers. Estimated water loss for 2025 remains high at 23%. Short-term variations in these values reflect both better measurement and tracking as well as ongoing challenges with aging infrastructure. Reducing water loss in a system of this size requires sustained coordinated effort. Combining near term actions with longer term investments, there's no single solution to this complex problem. Ultimately, it is a complex issue, but one we are committed to addressing." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 1243.285, "end": 1244.025, "text": "Next slide, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 1245.705, "end": 1310.105, "text": "So moving from the left to the right on this figure to help us understand what water loss is. System water loss reflects the difference between the volume of water produced by the plant and the volume metered and billed to customers, while accounting for some use for municipal purposes. Calgary meters and bills for water to both regional customers as well as customers within the city. Of the water supplied to the city, the non-billed portion is either water used for municipal purposes, such as flushing during return to service, firefighting, gaps in metering and billing processes, and water loss due to leakage. The values for each of these categories that impact the reported rate of water loss use both measurements and assumptions so that the water loss estimates are not exact but more of a general indicator. The estimate accuracy depends on how well we can measure, detect, and validate what's happening through the whole system. For example, we are underway with a plant flow meter verification update to ensure we have the accurate information on the volume of water entering the system, the values that the rest of the process are based on." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 1311.425, "end": 1312.425, "text": "Next slide, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 1314.325, "end": 1370.825, "text": "This is a visual illustrating the distribution system. The system leakage can occur anywhere between the outputs of our treatment plants and the customer bills. Calgary has a large and complex water system designed to serve a growing city across a wide geographic area. Leakage can occur anywhere between the plants and customer meters across more than 5,500 kilometers of infrastructure, a distance farther away than Mexico City. That includes feeder mains, reservoirs, the distribution systems, service connections, and in some cases, customer plumbing before the meter. Some leaks are obvious, such as large main breaks that surface quickly. Those are also addressed quickly. Others are much smaller and can occur at joints, valves, hydrants, or on service lines. In Calgary's gravelly porous soils, leaking water often drains away underground rather than surfacing, which can make leaks difficult to detect and allow them to continue unnoticed for a long period of time." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 1372.065, "end": 1372.845, "text": "Next slide, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 1375.665, "end": 1409.985, "text": "We currently monitor water loss performances through a variety of metrics. Two that are highlighted here are the percentage loss due to leakage called the leakage rate and the infrastructure leakage index. The infrastructure leakage index, or ILI, is an industry standard metric that compares the actual amount of water loss in any given year through leakage to the lowest feasible level of loss for a system of comparable size and characteristics. An ILI of one represents an ideal system with minimal loss. Higher values indicate increasing levels of leakage relative to that benchmark." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 1410.805, "end": 1459.785, "text": "The leakage rate or percentage loss due to leakage is the amount of water estimated to be lost due to leakage compared to the total volume of produced water supplied to the city. The two measures generally track in a similar way, but we use ILI, the infrastructure leakage index, because it helps us compare performance more meaningfully between years and to other utilities with different system characteristics. In terms of our current performance, estimates of water loss due to leakage have ranged between about 20 and 24% from 2019 to 2025, with a reported value of 23% in 2025. Again, the accuracy of these reported values depends on our ability to measure flows and validate data. So as our measurement of other contributing factors improves, reported water loss may increase before it declines." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 1460.565, "end": 1500.445, "text": "Our current target for the water loss is an infrastructure leakage index, an ILI of three by 2030, for which on our system represents about a 15% leakage rate. This reflects the lower end of the range recommended in guidance for Alberta municipalities and provides a reasonable benchmark for where we should be aiming as we advance the program. It's important to note that it's not a fixed target indefinitely. As we improve our understanding of the system and see the impacts of these programs over time, we'll be able to better provide information on what it would take to reduce this value further if that is the direction that council would like to pursue." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 1501.965, "end": 1502.705, "text": "Next slide, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 1506.705, "end": 1547.505, "text": "In 2023, the city conducted a water loss survey to get more information from other municipalities on water loss reduction approaches and current performance. Results from this study indicate that Calgary's water loss performance is currently at the higher end of the range of infrastructure leakage index values for the systems that provided this information. Survey results indicate performance across Canadian municipalities. They are randomized in the figure above. This comparison is important because it reinforces that while some level of water loss is expected in a system of this size and complexity, our current performance is above where we would like it to be in relation to our peers." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 1548.125, "end": 1560.125, "text": "The yellow band indicates the range of ILI recommended in guidance for Alberta municipalities. Current results indicate that we're close to the top of that band of five and our target aligns with the bottom of the range of three." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 1561.965, "end": 1562.785, "text": "Next slide, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 1564.925, "end": 1616.665, "text": "This slide connects historical performance to what we should expect going forward. Historically, when Calgary has increased renewal and maintenance activities, water loss has eventually stabilized or declined, so we know these types of actions do make a difference over time. The black line indicates the estimated leakage rate since the mid-1970s. The red and the blue bars, first with the red and then joining them with the blue, indicate the length of specific asset management activities, water main replacement and cathodic protection that have been completed annually in time. You can see significant investment through the mid 1980s and 90s on water main replacement was effective in driving down the leakage rate, as well as the historic number of main breaks. Cathodic protection, as shown in the blue, is another asset management approach to slow the rate of deterioration of metallic piping systems." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 1616.985, "end": 1677.185, "text": "The key message here is timing. In a system of this size and complexity, the impact of the investment does not show up immediately. It can take several years before the benefits of renewal, monitoring, and leak detection are reflected in the reported water loss performance. We know this through comparisons to other municipalities as well as our own historical performance. I do want to call out the recommended replacement rate and cathodic protection rates that are shown in the near term on this figure, a gray rectangle on the right. This is an initial target and it provides a reasonable next step for acceleration on these programs. As we begin to see trends from our own data and from the actions we're implementing, these program level targets will be refined and adjusted to better achieve our overall water loss reduction goals. We should also recognize that main replacement and cathodic protection are only part of the solution. Water loss reduction depends on a combination of actions, including improved measurement, targeted leak detection and repair and renewal, all working together over time." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 1677.665, "end": 1691.225, "text": "Overall, this slide reinforces that sustained coordinated effort over time is what drives results. The approach we're taking reflects both Calgary's past experience and broader industry practice. I'll pass it over to Ryan Kidd to provide some highlights of our program." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 1692.545, "end": 1693.465, "text": "Thanks, Monica." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 1693.945, "end": 1695.305, "text": "Next slide, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 1696.505, "end": 1717.125, "text": "The Accelerated Water Loss Reduction Program is our coordinated approach to reducing water loss across the system. The program is structured around three core goals improving measurement, expanding leak detection and repair, and increasing renewal and maintenance to reduce further risk of leaks. These are intentionally linked." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 1717.605, "end": 1748.505, "text": "Improving measurement helps us understand where losses are occurring, which allows us to better target field activities, and over time, renewal reduces the likelihood of those losses occurring in the first place. A key point for committee is that it is not a single initiative. It is a scaled up level of service across multiple areas of the utility. We are increasing monitoring, increasing the amount of system we inspect, and increasing the amount of infrastructure we renew all at the same time." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 1749.185, "end": 1754.765, "text": "This approach also reflects what we have learned both internally and from other utilities." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 1755.465, "end": 1761.765, "text": "There is no single solution to water loss in a system the size and complexity of Calgary." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 1762.065, "end": 1765.505, "text": "Sustainable improvement comes from applying multiple actions" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 1765.845, "end": 1772.445, "text": "consistently over time, supported by better data and continuous adjustment of the program as we learn." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 1773.285, "end": 1787.445, "text": "The next three slides provide specific examples of how we are implementing each part of the program in practice, showing how these high level goals translate into on the ground actions and outcomes for both customers and the utility." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 1787.805, "end": 1788.645, "text": "Next slide, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 1793.025, "end": 1807.565, "text": "Here is an example of improved an example of improving measurement is the combination of advanced metering infrastructure and expanding system monitoring and how they work together to improve visibility across the entire system." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 1809.085, "end": 1818.405, "text": "AMI strengthens the customer side of the picture with more frequent, more accurate meter data, while system monitoring strengthens the network side." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 1819.465, "end": 1823.205, "text": "By improving what we can see and validate in the distribution system." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 1824.105, "end": 1825.145, "text": "When combined," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 1825.485, "end": 1838.705, "text": "these two sets of data help identify patterns, location that suggest leakage and allow us to narrow on where to focus field investigation and action rather than relying on broad assumptions." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 1839.605, "end": 1845.305, "text": "Overall, this improves how we direct investments in order to reduce the amount of treated water loss over time." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 1846.445, "end": 1847.205, "text": "Next slide, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 1850.345, "end": 1856.505, "text": "A key part of reducing water loss is scaling up leak detection and repair, which directly" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 1857.085, "end": 1859.625, "text": "addresses active leaks in the system." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 1860.285, "end": 1875.505, "text": "Over the past few years, we have significantly increased the amount of system we are surveying. Coverage has grown more than five times from 2023 to 2025, reaching over 1,100 of kilometers surveyed annually." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 1876.425, "end": 1887.785, "text": "On the map, the pink areas show the 2024 program, where the blue areas highlight the coverage in 2025, reflecting an increased survey activity year over year." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 1888.085, "end": 1892.405, "text": "Areas shown in green, such as downtown, are part of the routine annual program." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 1894.125, "end": 1895.365, "text": "This work is targeted," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 1896.025, "end": 1899.745, "text": "not random. We are focusing on areas with historic," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 1900.465, "end": 1903.705, "text": "higher upbreak rates, and higher likelihood of leakage." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 1904.725, "end": 1913.245, "text": "As monitoring and system understanding improve, we are able to further refine where we direct this work to maximize impact." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 1913.985, "end": 1920.485, "text": "Today we are surveying approximately 70% of our metallic system each year and about 20% of the overall system," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 1921.165, "end": 1926.685, "text": "which significantly improves our ability to identify and address leaks early." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 1927.705, "end": 1940.445, "text": "This reflects a shift towards a more data driven and proactive approach where increased coverage and better targeting helps us identify leaks early and address them more effectively over time." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 1941.485, "end": 1942.225, "text": "Next slide, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 1944.865, "end": 1952.145, "text": "The third component of the program is that renewal and maintenance, which is the primary way we reduce the likelihood of future leaks." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 1953.005, "end": 1979.065, "text": "On this slide, we are using water main replacement as a clear example of how the work is scaling up. Replacement activities have increased significantly in recent years, with 7.8 kilometers completed in 2025, a target of 10 kilometers in 2026, and a sustained target of 15 kilometers per year from 27 through 2030. This map shows the planned maintenance program and replacement program for 2026." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 1980.345, "end": 1997.165, "text": "This work is prioritized using system condition data focused on areas where replacement will have the greatest impact on long term performance. It's not just about replacing pipe, it's about targeting the right segments of the system to reduce failure rate and future leakage." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 1997.945, "end": 2002.005, "text": "It is also important to note that renewal is a long term lever." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 2002.445, "end": 2016.605, "text": "Unlike leak detection and repair, which addresses active losses, renewal works by reducing the likelihood of those losses occurring in the first place. That is why it is a critical part of stabilizing water loss over time." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 2017.945, "end": 2032.465, "text": "This work complements the other parts of the program, and when combined with improved measurement and expanded leak detection, and renewal and maintenance helps move towards a more stable, predictable performance and reduce water loss over the long term." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 2033.965, "end": 2034.785, "text": "Next slide, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 2037.605, "end": 2045.945, "text": "This slide summarizes the level of investment required to support the accelerated water loss reduction program over the 27 to 30 period." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 2046.565, "end": 2056.925, "text": "In total, approximately $342 million is proposed, which is roughly double the level of investment compared to the 2023 to 2026 period." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 2057.505, "end": 2075.405, "text": "This investment measured uh represents a measured starting point. Uh we know that increasing efforts is required and we are scaling up key activities. Uh, but we are doing so in a controlled, targeted way rather than advancing additional investments beyond this point until we have." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 2076.105, "end": 2081.465, "text": "Stronger data and system understanding to guide those decisions." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 2082.505, "end": 2095.505, "text": "Funding is intentionally balanced across the program's core components. The first is improved measurement, including production flow meter verification, advanced metering infrastructure, and expanded system flow monitoring." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 2096.405, "end": 2099.225, "text": "The second is field and asset management work." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 2099.505, "end": 2110.105, "text": "Including leak detection and repair, as well as renewal and maintenance activities such as leak locating, condition assessment, cathodic protection, and main and service replacement." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 2111.125, "end": 2135.505, "text": "These efforts also deliver a broader value beyond water loss reduction. In addition to supporting asset lifecycle management across both the distribution and metering infrastructure, they improve system visibility and data quality, reduce the risk of unplanned failures and service disruptions, and allow us to more effectively target capital and operational work over time." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 2137.625, "end": 2138.345, "text": "Next slide, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 2144.785, "end": 2161.525, "text": "This updated uh graph combines our historic water loss performance with the accelerated water loss reduction program target to reach an infrastructure leakage index ILI of three, which is approximately fifteen percent of le uh leakage by twenty thirty." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 2162.305, "end": 2188.005, "text": "I want to acknowledge that this is an aggressive target, and what's shown here is a projection based on our current understanding of the system and the ramp up of actions underway. Achieving this outcome requires improved visibility into where losses are occurring and what is driving them and what actions are delivering results. It is important to evaluate water loss reductions over long term trends" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 2188.765, "end": 2190.645, "text": "rather than single year changes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 2191.525, "end": 2197.245, "text": "We do expect year over year movement, but the full benefits of these investments will take time" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 2197.445, "end": 2199.685, "text": "to be reflected in reported results." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 2201.025, "end": 2220.945, "text": "Progress will be reported annually on a consistent cycle so that Council can track how results are trending and how the program is performing over time. In the near term, the focus is on improving system understanding and targeting actions more effectively. As we collect better data, learn from implementation," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 2222.625, "end": 2227.725, "text": "we will adjust the program as needed while remaining aligned with long term targets." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 2228.565, "end": 2237.185, "text": "This approach keeps the work disciplined, flexible, and transparent as we work towards stabilizing and reducing water loss over time." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 2239.265, "end": 2239.765, "text": "Next slide." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 2243.505, "end": 2260.845, "text": "Water loss reduction is a long-term utility function, not a single decision point. And the work described today is already embedded in the approved capital and operating programs with further investments to be brought forward in the 2027 to 2030 budget process." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 2261.785, "end": 2272.685, "text": "Administration is taking a disciplined, data driven approach, improving system understanding first, and then directing investment where it will have the greatest impact over time." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 2273.285, "end": 2282.365, "text": "We will continue to report back to council annually on progress targets and any adjustments required as system understanding evolves." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 2283.265, "end": 2283.985, "text": "With that," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 2284.445, "end": 2288.505, "text": "administration recommends that committee receive this report for information." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 2289.105, "end": 2289.545, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 2293.005, "end": 2296.865, "text": "Thank you for your presentation. We do have members of the public that would like to speak. So if you" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 2297.425, "end": 2300.545, "text": "um hold off for a minute or two for questions from" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 2300.965, "end": 2302.165, "text": "the committee, there will be some." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 2302.765, "end": 2304.325, "text": "So thank you. Thank you for that presentation." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 2304.845, "end": 2307.445, "text": "Um members of the public, uh Mr. Hahn and Mr. Mohammed, I" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 2308.425, "end": 2311.265, "text": "believe you guys uh wanted to speak to this committee, so" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 2311.945, "end": 2312.765, "text": "please step forward." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 2313.585, "end": 2317.225, "text": "Probably don't have to tell you the rules of engagement. Uh you've been here enough times." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 2319.505, "end": 2320.265, "text": "Floor is yours, sir." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 2323.505, "end": 2335.145, "text": "Knowing all the rules of engagement, uh, I blundered and forgot my glasses, so this could be one of my more interesting set of remarks uh to counsel here this morning. So I'll but I'll give it my best shot, Chair." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 2335.785, "end": 2346.765, "text": "Good morning, Chair, members of committee. My name is Brian Hahn, Chief Executive Officer of Build Calgary Region. Thank you for the opportunity to speak to Agenda Item 7.2, the water loss update." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 2347.385, "end": 2362.405, "text": "BILD represents the land development, home building, and renovation industries across the Calgary region. Our members are directly impacted by infrastructure planning decisions, capital investment timing, and the frameworks used to allocate the costs of growth." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 2363.185, "end": 2371.025, "text": "I would like to begin by expressing BILD's clear support for the direction presented by administration in this report." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 2371.425, "end": 2386.405, "text": "In particular, we support the framing that reducing water loss is not simply an operational issue, but one that directly influences system efficiency, infrastructure capacity, and long term capital requirements." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 2387.745, "end": 2398.445, "text": "This is an important and constructive framing. It recognizes that how well the system performs today has a direct impact on what infrastructure will be acquired tomorrow and when." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 2399.205, "end": 2412.165, "text": "We also strongly support the proposed target of reducing system water loss from approximately 23% to 15% by 2030. This is an ambitious but necessary objective." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 2412.465, "end": 2419.005, "text": "And in our view, it represents a prudent investment in the sustainability and performance of Calgary's water system." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 2420.085, "end": 2431.405, "text": "From a broader city building perspective, this initiative matters because of what it enables. When system efficiency improves, the effective capacity of the existing infrastructure increases." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 2431.925, "end": 2446.945, "text": "Pressure on treatment and transmission infrastructure is reduced. And importantly, future infrastructure investments can be more appropriately sized and timed to reflect real end user demand rather than avoidable system losses." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 2447.705, "end": 2451.245, "text": "This alignment is critical in supporting efficient capital deployment," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 2451.585, "end": 2455.545, "text": "better ratepayer outcomes, and more and a more balanced approach to growth." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 2456.225, "end": 2459.045, "text": "It also has direct implications for housing affordability." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 2459.665, "end": 2469.565, "text": "To the extent that infrastructure investment can be aligned with actual demand and optimize system performance, it helps reduce cost pressures that ultimately flow through to new housing." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 2471.025, "end": 2476.025, "text": "However, the key issue before council is not just direction, it's execution." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 2476.645, "end": 2487.225, "text": "Achieving the 2030 target will require sustained effort, disciplined asset management, and ongoing transparency in reporting progress against that stated objective." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 2487.625, "end": 2492.705, "text": "And so we encourage your support of what administration has put forward here today." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 2493.965, "end": 2497.745, "text": "Of course, this is where the success of this initiative will be ultimately determined." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 2498.065, "end": 2511.945, "text": "With that context, I would like to turn to my colleague Mohammed Mohammed, who will speak more specifically to how water loss reduction translates in practical engineering and infrastructure terms into system capacity, capital planning, and cost allocation outcomes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 2513.065, "end": 2544.665, "text": "Thank you, Brian. Good morning, Chair and members of committee. I will build on Brian's remarks by providing a technical perspective on the implications of water loss reductions. From an engineering perspective, water loss represents non revenue water, reflects overall efficiency in the treatment, transmission, and distribution system. At a system level, the 2025 estimate of approximately 23% loss, along with an infrastructure leakage index of 4.8, indicates there remains meaningful opportunity to improve system performance and resilience." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 2545.465, "end": 2578.405, "text": "When water loss is reduced, the media effect is an increase in the usable capacity of the existing system. In other words, more of the water that is treated and conveyed through the network is available to meet actual demand by reaching end users. That has a direct and important impact on infrastructure planning. Improving efficiency reduces pressures on precious water resources, water reservoirs, treatments of plants, and transmission systems, and it allows the city of Calgary to bear a line. Infrastructural expansions with real demand rather than demand inflated by avoidable losses." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 2578.805, "end": 2591.105, "text": "As a result, major capital projects can be more appropriately timed and scaled, rather than being advanced or oversized in response to avoidable inefficiencies that are not driven by end user consumption." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 2591.545, "end": 2599.825, "text": "From a capital planning standpoint, this supports more efficient investment decisions and improves the reliability of long term infrastructure forecasts." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 2600.345, "end": 2603.425, "text": "It also has important implications for cost allocation." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 2604.685, "end": 2631.445, "text": "When infrastructure requirements are driven by actual end user demand rather than the system inefficiencies, costs can be allocated more accurately and fairly. This is particularly relevant in the context of growth related infrastructure. More broadly, the approach outlined in this report supports more efficient and optimal city and developer capital deployment, improved system performance and better alignment between infrastructure delivery and growth." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 2632.025, "end": 2670.365, "text": "Also contributes to environmental outcomes by reducing unnecessary water loss and improving overall system resilience. The proposed target of reducing water loss to 15% by 2030 is meaningful. Achieving it will require a sustained focus on asset management practices, including inspection, leak detection, pressure management optimization, monitoring, and the timely and adequate renewal and replacement of infrastructure. In closing, the direction outlined by administration represents a sound, evidence based approach to improving system efficiency and aligning infrastructure planning with actual demand." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 2671.725, "end": 2681.305, "text": "Continued focus on implementation, measurement, and transparent reporting will be essential to realizing these benefits. Thank you, and we are available to answer any questions that you may have." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 2682.425, "end": 2684.005, "text": "Uh thank you for your presentation." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 2684.565, "end": 2691.005, "text": "I'm gonna go back to the original queue um and go through it from there. Counselor Panthezopoulos, you're up first." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 2691.365, "end": 2694.345, "text": "And I know you'd said for administration, but" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 2694.765, "end": 2696.825, "text": "I'll give you the opportunity to ask the presenters" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2696.825, "end": 2697.065, "text": "Uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 2697.065, "end": 2697.605, "text": "questions first," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2697.605, "end": 2704.085, "text": "sure don't have a question for the presenter. This is more just about uh bringing into the corporate record some letters that were submitted." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2704.585, "end": 2711.445, "text": "So I certainly can wait till after maybe my colleagues speak and then we can bring these letters in uh from advisory group and then as well. I understand there's some bills." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 2711.445, "end": 2712.825, "text": "including their letter." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 2713.925, "end": 2714.805, "text": "Okay, thanks." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 2715.285, "end": 2716.565, "text": "Um so no questions for them?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2716.745, "end": 2718.065, "text": "Uh no questions in this specifically, thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 2718.065, "end": 2720.945, "text": "Okay, thanks. I'll leave you in the queue as first up for administration." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 2721.525, "end": 2722.865, "text": "Uh counselor uh ward." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 2723.505, "end": 2725.265, "text": "Uh did you have any questions for the presenters?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 2725.665, "end": 2725.865, "text": "Okay." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 2726.385, "end": 2726.865, "text": "Uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 2727.045, "end": 2727.785, "text": "Counselor Wynus." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 2729.245, "end": 2730.425, "text": "Yeah, I have a quick question." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 2731.005, "end": 2731.585, "text": "Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 2732.025, "end": 2735.065, "text": "15% as a target. Do you think we should" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 2735.365, "end": 2741.445, "text": "strive for a better target? Do you think Calgaryans will accept a fifteen percent target or even industry?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 2742.165, "end": 2745.745, "text": "Um I think 15% is a start." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 2746.105, "end": 2769.485, "text": "And uh if you kind of line it up, it looks like it lines up over kind of the what I'm gonna call perhaps in a incorrectly the old four year budget horizon. But um as we understand it, administration and council are moving towards a 10 year capital plan. I think it would be appropriate to have a 10 year target that's ambitious and um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 2771.905, "end": 2782.765, "text": "really addresses some of the competitive issues that billed has been before this and other councils talking about relative to other Alberta municipalities who who are achieving better results." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 2783.345, "end": 2791.505, "text": "How fast are other municipalities achieving targets? Like they they're already outperforming us on water loss, but what was their trajectory to make sure that they would" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 2791.565, "end": 2856.745, "text": "Yeah, I I I don't know what the ret trajectory was, but I think you've heard a lot about water loss. Um and one of the groups that we talked about, I can't remember whether it was a year ago or two years ago, was Epcor, and Epcor has a water or had a water loss rate at that time that the city had shared with us that was more in the 5% range. Um people say getting sub-10% is is the sweet spot. But I think it's one of those jobs that will never be finished. And um I I was impressed with administration's presentation today and their thoroughness, but it will be important that they see that they have your support in continuing to move forward aggressively. And um, you know, it sounds cheesy, but I think we all get tired of listening to the Oilers win. Let's put ourselves out in front uh as a city with great pride in kind of the operational excellence we have here, and at least we can control beating them with water loss." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 2857.265, "end": 2858.265, "text": "nice? Okay, thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 2861.585, "end": 2865.605, "text": "Thank you. Counselor Weynus, I'm gonna go to Councillor Atkinson. Do you have questions for these folks? No." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 2866.065, "end": 2869.005, "text": "Okay. Uh Counselor Johnson, do you have any questions for the presenters?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 2873.985, "end": 2874.745, "text": "Sorry, no." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 2875.285, "end": 2877.465, "text": "Thank you. Um so Mr. Hahn," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 2878.105, "end": 2886.925, "text": "I suspect that part of the driving element for build would be to um have uh maybe a more" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 2887.465, "end": 2890.625, "text": "thorough conversation uh when we" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 2891.225, "end": 2897.305, "text": "uh reassess the off-site levies and incorporating this water loss into that metric." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 2897.745, "end": 2902.625, "text": "Yeah, I I I think that's a fair observation. It's also a fair observation that" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 2903.065, "end": 2905.825, "text": "Build's members sell the reputation of the city." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 2906.505, "end": 2920.145, "text": "And they the and Calgary has a great reputation. It's a very livable place, but um it's had its bumps water wise, and that's been noticed by other cities. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 2920.585, "end": 2945.885, "text": "I've had Texas far away from the Philippines and Australia when we've had our ups and downs. So the the reputation goes far and wide, and look, things happen, right? Um can't control everything, but it's important that in the wake of those things that happen that we learn from what caused them and we don't repeat." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 2946.145, "end": 2955.625, "text": "We don't find ourselves in the same circumstances that led us to those events. And so as much as it is a an economic piece, and an economic piece" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 2956.185, "end": 2988.405, "text": "Is goes to the city's reputation. So does the reliability of city services. And I think it's important for all of us because we all have the collective interest in selling the city here and protecting our reputation in that regard. So in that way, what I heard from administration today is laser aligned with that, improving that and building a sense of reliability that puts Calgary as second to none in terms of how its system is water system is operated." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 2989.425, "end": 2991.605, "text": "The um you did mention that" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 2992.005, "end": 2998.525, "text": "uh while it's it's great to have a four year target, um a ten year target would probably be even more ideal" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 2998.885, "end": 3000.605, "text": "uh to be able to assess" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3000.905, "end": 3004.245, "text": "what the plan is on a go forward basis beyond this four year term." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3004.605, "end": 3008.385, "text": "And as you probably know we are also looking at uh creating a" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3008.845, "end": 3012.065, "text": "a water utility uh oversight committee board" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3012.465, "end": 3015.025, "text": "Uh specifically to address these kind of things," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3015.225, "end": 3019.965, "text": "short of something more legislative at like at a provincial level, like the" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3020.225, "end": 3022.605, "text": "ISO, the Alberta Electric System Operator." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3023.005, "end": 3023.505, "text": "Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3023.905, "end": 3025.345, "text": "do you think that would be uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3025.845, "end": 3029.445, "text": "a good way to uh maybe move forward with the 10 year capital plan?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 3030.745, "end": 3031.765, "text": "Oh, that that's a" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 3032.245, "end": 3034.045, "text": "that's a pretty big question." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3034.045, "end": 3034.285, "text": "Yeah." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 3034.285, "end": 3082.725, "text": "Um I I I I I apologize, but I'm gonna sort of turn it around in that I think a a board like a water utility oversight board can perhaps provide a synthesis or a filter for council to really have the opportunity not to maybe have to deal with the width and breadth of issues that it might have to deal with the water utility, but zero in on some particular issues by way of uh a water utility board. And the water utility board might be able to populate itself with a unique set of experience and expertise that can help in that regard. So that's where I think if if if I'm thinking about it, that's where a water utility board might be of assistance to council and to the public, quite frankly." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3083.145, "end": 3088.845, "text": "Yeah, reliability also plays into capacity, um, and capacity is directly tied to" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3089.165, "end": 3093.985, "text": "um how much water is actually needed out there, and if you're wasting a bunch of it, it may be" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3094.425, "end": 3104.365, "text": "Yeah, if you're building something that may not be necessary, it would be considered to be overbuilding. And being as we the rate pair ultimately pays, um certainly that should be" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 3104.365, "end": 3131.245, "text": "Well, uh you've made you've made our point, quite frankly, about if infrastructure is not right-sized or it has a carries a burden of an inefficiency, as Mr. Mohammed said, it it's just gonna cost more, and then the precious capital resources we're trying to spread around to, and you know how many hands are tugging at your coattails for all sorts of different things. It's just not in anybody's best interest to have any part of the city operating suboptimally." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3132.205, "end": 3136.045, "text": "Okay, thanks. Um seeing oops, hang on a second." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3137.725, "end": 3140.865, "text": "Not seeing any further questions, but uh thank you for being here and for your presentation." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 3141.025, "end": 3141.765, "text": "Thank you so much." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3142.725, "end": 3146.445, "text": "Before I ask if there's any other members of the public to speak to this item, um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3146.765, "end": 3150.125, "text": "we have special group in in the uh chambers today and" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3150.745, "end": 3152.445, "text": "so counselor uh Atkinson." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 3153.685, "end": 3248.365, "text": "Yes, uh a group just came in in the back of the room there, a grade one group. Uh also we last week we had another grade one class from Capitol Hill School, and this is another grade one class from Capitol Hill School, the school that my kids went to, got uh very fond, fond uh love for this school, this community school in our neighborhood. And these these kids are are doing the same theme this week. They're exploring I belong to a community and I can help care for it. Uh and we were talking a lot yesterday about things that they want to see in terms of making our city more vibrant uh and and better for grade oneers. And we we talked first actually a lot about planting trees and landing some plants in in our our neighborhoods, making them more green. And then we talked a little bit about playgrounds, which as you all know is something that we are having to look at. And uh the kids confirmed that uh one of the best playground items at Capitol Hill School is the birch tree that they get to climb on and the sandstone boulder that they get to climb all over as well. So playgrounds can take a lot of different uh shapes and sizes, uh, and these great Grade Oneers uh can confirm that play uh can happen on trees and boulders just as much as slides and swings. So uh, Grade Oneers, I'll ask you maybe all to stand so that my council colleagues here can recognize you and you'll be up on the screen just right over there. Uh thanks for coming in." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3257.005, "end": 3262.265, "text": "Uh thank you for that, uh uh Counselor Atkinson. Um I can't help but ask. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3262.825, "end": 3265.225, "text": "uh there's uh Carrie Goss, who's the teacher." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3265.765, "end": 3271.745, "text": "Um and of course I have a relationship with a gentleman by the name of Bobby Goss. I'm just wondering if there's any ties there." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3273.485, "end": 3274.065, "text": "Okay." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3275.485, "end": 3277.365, "text": "All right. Thank you for being here and uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3277.605, "end": 3280.525, "text": "I hope you guys get a chance to grill Counselor Atkinson uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3280.825, "end": 3283.605, "text": "extensively on on your position with regards to" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3283.825, "end": 3286.165, "text": "what you can do for your community. So thank you for being here." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3288.105, "end": 3292.305, "text": "All right, uh, I will now ask if there's any other members of the public that wish to speak to this item." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3292.525, "end": 3294.725, "text": "Uh any other members of the public?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3295.585, "end": 3300.545, "text": "Seeing none, I'll go to you, Councillor Panthersopoulos and administration, if you come back to the podium." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3301.905, "end": 3302.385, "text": "Perfect." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3302.825, "end": 3303.605, "text": "Thanks so much, Chair." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3304.305, "end": 3305.965, "text": "Maybe I would just start with those uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3306.725, "end": 3309.045, "text": "incorporating those documents into the corporate record." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3309.185, "end": 3310.745, "text": "Uh there's one from" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3311.065, "end": 3312.165, "text": "the uh committee" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3312.505, "end": 3313.685, "text": "and then a few from" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3314.025, "end": 3316.225, "text": "Build, is that fair as appropriate? Yeah, certainly from the uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3316.965, "end": 3321.025, "text": "Bear Poss South Feeder Main Implementation Advisory Group, a letter that was submitted to council yesterday, and then" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3321.425, "end": 3322.485, "text": "a couple of letters from build." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3327.045, "end": 3329.865, "text": "Um, Madam Clerk, can you put that recommendation up on the" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3330.985, "end": 3331.925, "text": "on the uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3332.565, "end": 3333.085, "text": "thanks." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3334.705, "end": 3336.925, "text": "So that members who are not present." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3340.785, "end": 3344.045, "text": "Okay. Um any debate around that addition?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3346.225, "end": 3352.565, "text": "I'll uh look around the room, the those folks who are operating remotely, if you can maybe throw something in the queue if you want to speak to that." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3354.045, "end": 3355.545, "text": "Not seeing anything, so" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3356.085, "end": 3357.285, "text": "all right. On uh the" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3357.525, "end": 3358.865, "text": "that motion that's on" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3359.145, "end": 3361.545, "text": "the screen before you any debate seeing none." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3362.025, "end": 3362.765, "text": "All in favor?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3363.185, "end": 3364.025, "text": "Any opposed?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3364.845, "end": 3368.225, "text": "Seeing none, that motion is carried. Thank you, Councillor Panthalopoulos. Carry on." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3368.785, "end": 3374.525, "text": "Perfect. Just uh a couple questions for a minute. Thanks again uh for the presentation and answering those questions uh beforehand." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3374.705, "end": 3394.725, "text": "Very helpful. Just wanted to speak a bit about timing. I think in your presentation you mentioned uh timing is very critical. It takes time for the capital investments, for the decisions to sort of get incorporated. And and maybe you know that reconciliation back to the 15% and the three. Uh we mentioned very aggressive goals uh uh in three years, 30% cut, 40% cut, etc." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3395.225, "end": 3420.405, "text": "So maybe with with that in mind, maybe just talk about that goal creation, the three, and by design the 15. Was that driven solely by uh trying to be sort of at the lower end of the Alberta Munis report? Or was there something yeah, internally we sort of modeled this out, maybe just reconcile that uh conversation about aggression, being too aggressive, possibly, as well as the um why three and not two, or why not four?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 3423.405, "end": 3457.485, "text": "It does represent an aggressive target, but not one that we think that would be out of possibility for this municipality. We have already begun, you saw our increased leak survey rates for 2024 and 2025, and many of our programs that are coming into fruition for the 27 through 30 budget cycle are well underway with the implementation with the planning side, and then we're queued up for implementation. So we do expect to begin to see the benefits of those programs in short order over this next budget cycle." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 3458.365, "end": 3519.645, "text": "The setting of the target was aligned with the reaching the bottom end of that range as endorsed by Alberta municipalities, but it does also reflect where we were in about the 2015 timeframe. So as we have increased since that time, the current trend or the trend that we're driving towards follows approximately that rate of growth as well. So we are setting this as an aggressive target, scaling up our investment programs, and we will be reassessing our actions against progress against this target over this next budget cycle. If there are activities that we want to continue to scale up or scale back, depending on where we're finding the most bang for the buck, we will do so. We've intentionally set this as an interim target that we will be working towards over the next few years. So it is both as supported by municipalities as well as what we are driving on and checking progress against." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3520.165, "end": 3544.405, "text": "It's the next question, an interim target. And you know, Bill just talked about Bill excuse me, talked about 10-year plan. Um, you know, is there a path to something better? 10% to you know, 15% is is wonderful, but it's still in a very hot summer day, 100 plus million liters of lost water, and and it's still sort of at a higher end, lower end of a range, but you know, sort of a higher end of where we're being. So maybe just talk through what it would look like." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3544.765, "end": 3558.705, "text": "Beyond that three year, a four-year budget cycle, uh, is there a path, a plan to get to two or one, or what is a reasonable? How should Council and Calgaryans think about a long term vision and a goal? We may never get there, but at least directionally we're trying to uh trying to get there." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 3570.685, "end": 3598.585, "text": "Our job over the next year, two years and and cycle is to present council with these are the options to go forward. This is what the investment is going to look like in order to get it to lower than than three, and really trying to find that sweet spot with where that level of investment uh meets the the water loss targets and really coming together and and providing that information to all of you to get the right direction on where we want to be as a city." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3600.185, "end": 3608.085, "text": "High level, you you think there is a path potentially to be costed out, to be determined that we could exceed that in the right way, go lower, get better than three." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 3608.085, "end": 3641.505, "text": "Absolutely. It it's just really gonna correspond to the right level of investment in all of those things that we we presented. And and uh we can absolutely drive harder uh to to get to there if that's what council wants. We just want to make sure that everybody is going in with their eyes wide wide open around this would be the level of investment that would would get us there. And and having the right information uh and and really that first pillar is about collecting that information in order to present that, uh in order to present that to you to to make good decisions around uh directing that investment." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3642.245, "end": 3677.125, "text": "And then finally back to investment. The last budget cycle, the current budget cycle, I guess, there was $160 million of spend, and we had a deterioration, went down from 17-18% up to 23%. And we're looking to double that. Just maybe walk through why this time it's different. What different approach did we take? Any learnings? Are we going to start to see the benefits of the 160 million? Just sort of comforts as we go into the four year budget cycle that this is the right 340 million, 360, excuse me, 340, 360 that we're looking to spend relative to the last budget cycle, which didn't get the results current in the short term that we would expect." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 3677.925, "end": 3678.925, "text": "Sure. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 3679.445, "end": 3745.885, "text": "Key factors of the upcoming program is really the implementation of the AMI program as well as improved system monitoring under that first pillar of better improving our system understanding. So in this current budget cycle, we have spent smaller dollars towards those objectives in terms of setting up the plans, getting these projects ready for implementation. And in this 27 through 30 budget cycle, we're really primed for full implementation as well as full spend of those activities under system understanding. The change also reflects an increase in that main replacement system repair piece. So we have been, you know, as council is well aware, we've been working through some challenges on the water distribution system. So not only are we scaling up our local distribution replacement, that investment also includes investing in increasing leak detection, condition assessment, repair and replacement for our feeder main stock, too. So this is a generally new work or work that has been increasingly scaled up for that 27 through 30 budget cycle." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3747.565, "end": 3748.745, "text": "Thanks so much. Thank you, Mr. Chair." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3751.545, "end": 3754.225, "text": "Uh thank you, Councilor Panthalopoulos. I know you have um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3754.765, "end": 3757.545, "text": "a recommendation. I think it's alter recommendations, is that correct?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3757.545, "end": 3759.865, "text": "Yeah, and an amendment uh to the recommendation." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3759.865, "end": 3763.065, "text": "Okay, so immediately following questions from" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3763.325, "end": 3765.845, "text": "uh committee on to administration, I'll I'll go to you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3766.645, "end": 3767.205, "text": "First." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3768.105, "end": 3770.925, "text": "Next up then is uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3772.265, "end": 3774.405, "text": "I think Councilor Ward." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 3775.805, "end": 3777.265, "text": "Yes, Counselor Ward. You're up." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_14", "start": 3777.605, "end": 3779.005, "text": "Thank you. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_14", "start": 3779.425, "end": 3793.565, "text": "a few quick questions. First of all, um acknowledgement that it's nice to see that the target has dropped to fifteen from eighteen, so thank you for that. Um another perhaps recommendation on page two of the cover report," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_14", "start": 3794.045, "end": 3796.905, "text": "it says accelerated water loss program." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_14", "start": 3797.305, "end": 3801.825, "text": "I would perhaps add a word, loss reduction program, just to" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_14", "start": 3802.385, "end": 3803.945, "text": "start." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 3804.065, "end": 3804.565, "text": "Notice" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_14", "start": 3804.705, "end": 3814.205, "text": "Just saying. Question: How regularly are the production meters at the water treatment plants tested for accuracy? And when were the last tested?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 3816.745, "end": 3847.265, "text": "We are in a test update right now. So we've been running a few different types of production meter verification testing over the past month and continuing now. And they were last tested for accuracy about five years ago. So it's been about a five year cycle since the previous update. They are monitored for calibration, though, to ensure that the information that they're reading is input appropriately in the systems in a monthly to annual basis." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_14", "start": 3847.605, "end": 3852.225, "text": "Okay. And how often are those meters replaced or renewed?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 3854.345, "end": 3884.505, "text": "After our last, so about five years ago, we replaced the production flow meters at Glenmore water treatment plant, and that had been I would have to go back to my records in terms of when they were installed, the original ones, but the the plant production meters at Glenmore are new within the past five years. The production meters at Bears Paw are original to their uh staged um construction, so they would be a relic of the 1970s." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_14", "start": 3884.725, "end": 3885.005, "text": "Okay." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_14", "start": 3885.525, "end": 3896.525, "text": "And the type of measurement used to measure Calgary's water production, is it typically does it have an error bias? And and does the bias tend to run low or high? Do we know?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 3897.905, "end": 3924.745, "text": "There is some bias introduced by the location of the plant production meters in terms of spacing against distance. You want to have an appropriate lay length for those plant production meters and bias according to the various production meter styles. No, you know, I don't have the data to hand to say if there was an industry bias for each of these types of meters." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_14", "start": 3924.765, "end": 3924.885, "text": "Okay." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_14", "start": 3925.225, "end": 3925.645, "text": "And then move" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 3925.645, "end": 3935.165, "text": "that is really what what we're trying to do with the with that uh meter verification and and testing is is really make sure we're understanding that has it changed uh and and where that is at." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_14", "start": 3935.265, "end": 3937.065, "text": "Excellent. Okay." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_14", "start": 3938.985, "end": 3954.145, "text": "According to the presentation attached, it seems that you've uh identified the metallic portions of the water network as the most risk for leakage. Um, so where are the majority of those located in the city and how are we prioritizing those for repair?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 3955.785, "end": 4006.025, "text": "I I'll start and you can chime in. I'd like to note that there's a few different types of failures that we see in the system, and the failure type is often matched up with the material type. So the leaks that we see on the metallic pipe are maybe pinhole leaks caused by corrosion or at fittings. Other materials might fail in a catastrophic manner, such as what we've seen on our PCCP Bears Poss South Federmain. PVC pipes also have the potential to fail in a burst manner rather than have those prolonged periods where we would go out and do proactive leak survey to identify them to address directly address the question. Much of the metallic pipe stock is within the older, more established neighborhoods. Most of our new installation has been with PVC pipes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_14", "start": 4007.465, "end": 4030.105, "text": "Um, and then sort of a math question, and just help me understand this if you may. If we so if we're targeting replacement of 15 kilometers of water mains each year, and Calgary has 5,590 kilometers, does that mean that it would take 373 years before all the water mains are replaced? And how does that line up with um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_14", "start": 4030.545, "end": 4031.185, "text": "On" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_14", "start": 4031.485, "end": 4047.585, "text": "this is getting detailed, but page 122, attachment three, corporate asset management plan, which show local water pipes and transmission pipes have a theoretical useful life of 69 and 75 years. So i is fifteen kilometers per year pace" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_14", "start": 4048.905, "end": 4049.565, "text": "does that" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_14", "start": 4050.065, "end": 4055.105, "text": "is that sufficient to keep up with the annual rate of water means reaching end of useful life? I I would say no, but." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 4058.165, "end": 4108.845, "text": "I so that 15 kilometers, it represents about a 1% uh replacement rate for that metallic system. I think as we continue to age in our assets, we're gonna have to continue to refine that on PVC. Uh as we've installed that and newer understanding the replacement rate, is it 70 years, is it 100 years, is it 120 years? And and really uh as we see failures, as we see kind of that asset perform over time, we're gonna need to adjust that. And and perhaps that investment does need to does need to change. I think we're from uh from a water loss and and asset renewal. I I think that our initial target of that 15 kilometers per year is gonna be let's understand what that does, how that impacts service disruption, how that uh impacts uh leakage rates." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 4109.425, "end": 4120.785, "text": "And then we'll continue to to build and iterate from there. Uh it might not be the right level. I think that's represents an increase. We want to understand what that is doing, how that's performing, and we're going to adjust from there." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_14", "start": 4121.405, "end": 4124.505, "text": "Right, 'cause I like I noticed in the slide, it shows that" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_14", "start": 4125.465, "end": 4132.945, "text": "we were doing thirty-five kilometers per year in the early to mid-90s. I is there a reason for the big discrepancy or lowering?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 4133.125, "end": 4163.005, "text": "One of the major changes that we've implemented since that replacement rate of about 35 kilometers is our cathodic protection program. So cathodic protection is the mechanism to slow down the rate of deterioration of our metallic system. So that does help us extend the anticipated useful life of our metallic system. So pairing the two of them together now is this first level of scaled up investment that we are going to be evaluating efficacy for." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_14", "start": 4164.545, "end": 4165.165, "text": "And" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_14", "start": 4165.385, "end": 4168.545, "text": "I I believe you mentioned that you guys will be" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_14", "start": 4168.885, "end": 4177.325, "text": "coming back on an annual basis to update us on like leakage rate and and spend towards this. Is that true? Correct?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 4178.225, "end": 4202.145, "text": "Yes, we do plan to come back. I mean at council direction, but the proposal would be to provide a report back annually at about this time. We complete our annual water audit in May through in about May. So we would like to come back to report on the information, progress against targets, how we've done on our action plan to continue to" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 4203.105, "end": 4207.785, "text": "allow your oversight on this program as well as awareness on our progress." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_14", "start": 4207.885, "end": 4209.905, "text": "Awesome. Thank you very much for the answers." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 4212.505, "end": 4214.305, "text": "Counselor Ward, Counselor Wynus." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 4214.905, "end": 4220.965, "text": "Thanks. Um we talked a little bit about when we had this presentation on Friday uh to my office." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 4221.285, "end": 4225.225, "text": "Um I'm still challenged by the lack of presentation that we're a regional water provider." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 4225.485, "end": 4225.625, "text": "Great." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 4226.285, "end": 4229.485, "text": "And so why are we not actually showcasing when we talk about water" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 4229.845, "end": 4235.005, "text": "who we're actually providing water to? Uh because we are no longer just the city of Calgary." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 4235.565, "end": 4235.985, "text": "Absolutely." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 4236.645, "end": 4247.925, "text": "We do have a supplemental slide if the clerks wanted to pull up distribution item number four, regional servicing, and we can talk about our role as a regional service provider." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 4250.025, "end": 4312.725, "text": "We do. Illustrated on the map are our regional partners. We do serve approximately 1.8 million customers in Calgary and the region. Shown in the table are the numbers of municipalities and external parties that are supported by both our water service, so that would be potable water that we're talking about today, as well as there are some additional customers for our wastewater service that we do receive wastewater from. So in the map, you can see Airdrie, Chestermere, Foothills County at Spruce Meadows, Soutina Nation, the Sean Power Plant, and the town of Strathmore, highlighted in red. These illustrate our the extent of those regional partners. The approach that we are taking through on water loss with our regional customers is we do have boundary meters on each of the feeder mains that are supplying our regional customers. These are monitored regularly to ensure they're accurately representing the amount of water that we are selling to our regional customers so we can manage that difference within our program." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 4315.485, "end": 4318.965, "text": "Great. Uh I don't see it in an e scribe, so is Clerk's gonna add this in?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 4326.645, "end": 4328.025, "text": "Because it's not showing in my e scribe." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 4328.245, "end": 4328.405, "text": "Okay." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 4331.025, "end": 4331.825, "text": "So they can" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 4332.145, "end": 4332.925, "text": "fix that later." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 4333.565, "end": 4334.145, "text": "Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 4337.605, "end": 4337.885, "text": "it" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 4338.065, "end": 4340.885, "text": "in your risk analysis on the top sheet," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 4341.425, "end": 4341.885, "text": "um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 4342.105, "end": 4353.765, "text": "How come we didn't evaluate the the risk to the organization's reputation where we're accepting a 15% loss rate at the same time we're asking for conservation like alternative watering days from Calgaryans?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 4354.085, "end": 4355.725, "text": "I feel like this presentation" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 4355.965, "end": 4356.865, "text": "is a gap." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 4357.245, "end": 4358.185, "text": "There's a gap of" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 4358.745, "end": 4361.945, "text": "information that is coming to council from what was presented on our" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 4363.945, "end": 4365.425, "text": "water conservation plan." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 4366.925, "end": 4400.745, "text": "So, Accelerated Water Loss Reduction Program is a key component of the Water Efficiency Plan, and they are in alignment in terms of what we presented through the Water Efficiency Plan and what has been presented here today. So, what we heard through a lot of the engagement from the water efficiency plan is we'd like to know more about what the city is doing to address this high level of loss to make sure that we're all pulling in the same direction. So we wanted to come back and provide this information for this is what we are doing, this is what we have been doing, and this is where we're planning to take the program in the next budget cycle." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 4401.125, "end": 4406.705, "text": "Counselor Wines. Um some people online are having problems hearing you. Could you pull your microphone a little bit closer? Thanks." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 4406.705, "end": 4409.145, "text": "I'll talk louder. I'm just having a quiet day." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 4409.625, "end": 4410.365, "text": "Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 4412.425, "end": 4413.565, "text": "okay, so so" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 4414.525, "end": 4419.925, "text": "When it comes to the connecting the dots, Councillor Ward mentioned talked about the metering at the plant," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 4420.205, "end": 4424.705, "text": "but where's the information of who's metered in all of these systems? And I think because when we" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 4425.245, "end": 4426.865, "text": "had that last presentation," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 4427.085, "end": 4428.045, "text": "Calgarians were" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 4428.245, "end": 4430.165, "text": "frustrated about metering of their homes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 4430.525, "end": 4435.725, "text": "And so where where's the metering of the homes? How are there anyone in Calgary that don't have meters in their houses?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 4436.025, "end": 4444.485, "text": "Where what sections of the city have meters and don't have meters? Again, if we're doing water loss and measurement, I I don't see that in this presentation." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 4445.465, "end": 4491.025, "text": "So thanks for the question. Essentially, all of Calgary's residential customers are metered. There are about 1% of our properties or about close to 5,000 residential properties that are not metered at this time. So we are continuing to install those meters as we can uh as we can get into those into those customers, and that forms one of the say assumptions in our water loss calculation. We don't actually know how much we're those customers are using, but we calculate that and and and assume that. And as we get better at measurement, both through uh the distribution system and our and our meters, we're going to continue to uh continue to capture that and and refine that number." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 4491.925, "end": 4503.785, "text": "Okay, and and so in the section it are are all those people that don't have meters in sort of a community? Is it an age issue that didn't have it? Is it randomly throughout the city that don't have meters? Who can you help tell the story there?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 4503.825, "end": 4555.625, "text": "Yeah, they are spread throughout the city, though they are either residences. So wanted to clarify that we don't have any commercial properties without a meter. All of our ICI and commercial industrial, commercial, and institutional customers are metered. So we do have this about 1% of our residential population that does not have a water meter or does not have a water meter that is appropriately providing a read. And so we these are spread throughout the city. There is a trend to some older homes. There is a process for when a property turns over. That would be a mechanism for us to be able to get a meter installed. And through the AMI program, we are also addressing the set of the subset of that 1% that doesn't have an accurately communicating meter as well." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 4556.245, "end": 4562.605, "text": "So when it comes to charging them for water use, are we do they get a surcharge for not being metered or is it like how are you billing in?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 4562.785, "end": 4569.885, "text": "There is a flat rate um assessed to flat rate customers, yeah. As well as the the typical s um site servicing." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 4571.985, "end": 4582.965, "text": "Alright, and then for the 15%, uh we've heard five percent as another target or 10% in your 10 year capital planning. What's your ideal target?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 4584.925, "end": 4585.365, "text": "I" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 4586.205, "end": 4586.485, "text": "are" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 4588.585, "end": 4625.105, "text": "I I can start. I'm waiting to see how this target plays out in terms of the level of investment. What I want to make sure is that the program matches and the program benefits are aligned with the amount of effort and resources that we're putting into reducing this. So setting a target without having all of that information and understanding the sensitivity of our performance with the various parameters and the levers that we are moving forward right now, I think that is the most prudent way forward to wait for additional data." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 4626.365, "end": 4633.605, "text": "Okay, because I think when you look at the risk to the organization, uh Calgarians are" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 4634.785, "end": 4637.125, "text": "not having a 15% loss rate in their home." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 4637.685, "end": 4639.285, "text": "And so again," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 4639.985, "end": 4650.025, "text": "where are you going to find that sweet spot when we're asking so much of the individual and the Calgarian versus us as a city and a regional water provider?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 4650.665, "end": 4652.625, "text": "and I think that's what we're trying to" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 4653.105, "end": 4665.805, "text": "gather and present back to to council is is figuring out where that sweet spot is and understanding what level of investment is required uh to hit different targets, uh whether it's five percent, ten percent or fifteen percent." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 4666.065, "end": 4679.505, "text": "Uh I feel like this is ch I feel like I'm having the same conversation I had like over the last term where it's we continue to not have that solid goal and it it carries on. And so that again, I I appreciate this is for the corporate record." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 4680.265, "end": 4683.505, "text": "But like I said before when we met, there there's information missing." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 4684.085, "end": 4684.485, "text": "Uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 4685.005, "end": 4687.545, "text": "and and I hope the amendment will help us get there." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 4688.105, "end": 4688.485, "text": "But" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 4689.165, "end": 4695.945, "text": "yeah, there's so much more that we have to connect the dots on what we ask of Calgarians and what we do as a city. So thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 4696.925, "end": 4698.925, "text": "Counselor Weines, uh Counselor Atkinson, you're up." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 4699.905, "end": 4705.405, "text": "Uh great. If we could go to slide seven of the presentation." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 4706.425, "end": 4728.245, "text": "There's we've got this sort of um early or like 2015 to 2020 uh area where we're sort of down and rapidly sort of increasing, but a big part of what we're sort of changing or proposing to change is measurement. So I'm wondering the confidence level that you have in sort of the leakage rates of." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 4729.785, "end": 4740.225, "text": "Earlier past. Like, is that do we feel good about the the numbers there, or how much of that is maybe just hidden because we weren't measuring in the best ways?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 4741.325, "end": 4781.805, "text": "Well, some some of it is uh really about estimates, and over time those estimates uh get better. Uh we were just talking about metering. So one of uh I I believe the universal metering program ended in about 2014. So up until that time, everything before wasn't actually metered at customers' homes. We had our ICI meters, but uh that's one example of improving that that measurement and confidence in in water loss and and kind of uh changing some of those assumptions that went into uh those estimates for water loss. Uh, really up until 2014, we didn't have." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 4782.245, "end": 4795.165, "text": "Really solid end point metering at our our customers, and we had to make a lot of assumptions about how much water people were using in their homes. So I think over time our confidence in that number starts to starts to grow as our measurement improves." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 4795.525, "end": 4806.005, "text": "So you think sort of post 2014 we can be relatively confident, you know, we're getting better data, more data, but 2014 is kind of a change point in terms of" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 4806.665, "end": 4809.045, "text": "measuring leakage rates rather than estimating." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 4809.045, "end": 4819.305, "text": "I I would say it's certainly certainly improved since that time, and we've done a lot more with uh with our system monitoring as as well, too, to I'll say improve that confidence as well." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 4819.545, "end": 4834.005, "text": "Okay. Can we go to slide eight, the ILI value? Are we taking into account when we're doing these comparisons like the the length of pipe, the amount of the system at all?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 4834.685, "end": 4871.625, "text": "Absolutely. So that's the beauty of the infrastructure leakage index, it does take those system parameters into consideration. So the calculation is your current estimated real losses, so how much water you think that you're losing in the system in a year, divided by your system parameters. So it takes into consideration the length of distribution mains, your number of service connections, as well as your average operating pressure across the system. So it is removing those system characteristics as a benchmarking capability to provide benchmarking capabilities." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 4871.925, "end": 4874.825, "text": "Great. Slide nine." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 4875.305, "end": 4886.785, "text": "So cathodic protection has sort of come on. You really see this sort of like inverse relationship between leaks and the amount of water main replacement seems pretty." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 4887.445, "end": 4910.785, "text": "Like counterbalanced uh in the graph. Cathodic protection has this more sort of long-range effect that isn't sort of necessarily going to show up in sort of the years in which we're doing the replacement. Do we have a sense based on maybe data from elsewhere what that cathodic protection, like what it's doing to the graph" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 4911.725, "end": 4916.405, "text": "X many years down the road, or where we would sort of see that cathodic protection" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 4917.185, "end": 4918.565, "text": "helping to bend the curve?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 4920.465, "end": 4943.965, "text": "What I'll say about crythotic protection is the mechanism slows down the rate of deterioration of the pipe, but it doesn't start it afresh like main replacement does. So the benefits will not be as pronounced, but will have a positive effect of slowing down the rate at which further leaks or breaks do occur in the metallic system." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 4944.545, "end": 4944.965, "text": "Okay." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 4946.185, "end": 4946.825, "text": "Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 4947.985, "end": 4954.065, "text": "based on our measurement of leaks across the system, do we have a sense like are" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 4954.905, "end": 4955.445, "text": "is it" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 4956.345, "end": 4974.065, "text": "are our leaks concentrated or is it really just like really spread across the system? Like I I'm wondering how much of it is like easy, you know, easy pickings versus once we're gonna start getting to a point where it's just you're literally having to replace every pipe uh in the system." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 4974.325, "end": 4996.845, "text": "I think that's what we're trying to do is balance those those two two programs. I would say it has not been easy pickings. We've surveyed a number of kilometers, 1100 kilometers last year. And I think the number is we found about 54 leaks on that. So that's kind of the scale. And it takes a lot of effort to" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 4997.265, "end": 5009.125, "text": "survey, get that, uh, get those those leaks that aren't surfacing, they could be there for a number of years, kind of actively leaking. So it's really about." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 5009.745, "end": 5044.485, "text": "Hunting for those ones, finding those active ones and repairing or replacing, and then feeding that into that long-term renewal program so that you're preventing leaks from occurring in the future as well, too, and really striking that right balance. So that's what we're in the in the process. And when you increase that replacement, you might get an opportunity to decrease that leak survey and vice versa, depending on what those programs are finding. So we're really trying to refine that is for where Calgary is right now, and then what it looks like going forward as we see some of these results." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 5046.005, "end": 5051.405, "text": "Great. Councillor Ward actually touched on this on the sort of like the" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 5052.265, "end": 5056.465, "text": "treatment plant areas, but leak or um our" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 5057.145, "end": 5060.205, "text": "our measurement downstream," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 5060.705, "end": 5089.445, "text": "uh, since we're using that to sort of determine where we're maybe ripping things up and and doing those replacements. How are we able to verify how confident are we in the results of the the measurements that are are downstream? Is there any concern that we're maybe ripping up a pipe that doesn't need to be ripped up or we're not, yeah, when what what's the failure rate, I suppose, of um the measurements downstream?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 5089.785, "end": 5091.525, "text": "Uh downstream of the water treatment plants." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 5091.525, "end": 5092.545, "text": "Downstream of the water treatment." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 5092.545, "end": 5144.665, "text": "And and I and I think that's what we're we're also trying to to make sure we're we're balancing. Uh certainly best practice to to make sure we have a good understanding of how those production meters are are performing. And that's what we're doing right now. We did that Glenmore plant and really right now we're focusing on on bear's paw and some of those older meters. Make sure we're uh they are accurate and we understand how much is leaving that, because that's what all of this is is based on. Uh as far as our main replacement goes, like there are a number of criteria, and and we we are not replacing pipes that don't need to be replaced. I think it's more a matter of of that of that rate that we're uh that we're replacing them on and and scaling up to 15 kilometers. There's uh there's pipes in need of of renewal, and and so I I don't think we're in danger of replacing pipes that are uh are good in our system at this point. But" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 5144.785, "end": 5179.365, "text": "Sorry, so you like the uh we're measuring on the way out and we're making sure that we're you know preparing and replacing and and checking that, but we are deciding based like deciding what pipes we're replacing downstream based on measure here, measure here, and and the the difference between the two. If those were installed at some point down the road, like how confident are we, or are there ways that we can verify before we actually replace that pipe that that the readings that we're getting and the loss in that area is correct?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 5179.765, "end": 5223.245, "text": "Well, certainly, and and if I don't quite hit this, Monica, please jump jump in. But uh like with our main replacement program, takes into a number of uh considerations a number of factors. So typically we are replacing pipes that have either leak or broke uh previously. So that's a that's a factor. Uh the soil conditions, how corrosive they they are that might be contributing to uh uh to that degradation as as well, too. So those are just a couple of factors that go into go into that. It's not necessarily just based on the amount of leakage we're seeing, it's it's really that asset performance uh and and some of those other underlying factors that we are using to uh to put that replacement program together." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 5223.745, "end": 5223.945, "text": "Okay," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 5224.145, "end": 5263.125, "text": "I'm wondering if you're asking about the customer metering accuracy as well, which would be the downside of that to balance against it. We do have a almost almost all of our customers are metered, and we are advancing the advanced metering infrastructure upgrades to help increase the both accuracy of those meters, but more importantly, the rate at which we can receive that information to be able to better set up that balance. So we are replacing a whole bunch of our meter stock as well as ensuring accuracy through a consistent large meter test program for our largest meters to also help validate that data." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 5263.745, "end": 5268.045, "text": "that's that's the piece. That's what I'm taking for. Uh great. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 5268.985, "end": 5291.605, "text": "And then I think finally is kind of on this slide. I think a piece of information that I would like to see, and I'm not sure how to necessarily bring it in, but is the length of the total system applied with these? It if that we're sort of seeing that in terms of the ILI calculations and those kinds of pieces." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 5292.445, "end": 5322.905, "text": "If you know our system and the replacement when we were doing 35 kilometers a year in 1995, this city is very different than 1995 today and the amount of pipe that we have. And I don't know, you also mentioned the difference in terms of the types of pipe, so whether that wouldn't maybe be factored in. But maybe it seems like the ILI calculation is actually the thing that I'm thinking about more than sort of just these like hard numbers. But" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 5323.345, "end": 5347.225, "text": "if there's a way to sort of visually show the calculations of the ILA, which is maybe the the types of pipe, the interconnections, the distances of pipe overlaid with the changes in our our our repairs going in. I don't know if there's an easy way to do that, but um might give a a better sense of where we're at and whether the amount of um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 5347.945, "end": 5350.965, "text": "investment is sort of hitting hitting the mark." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 5351.685, "end": 5357.245, "text": "Okay, I think that's something we can take away for future reporting. That's information that we do have available. So we can do that." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 5357.505, "end": 5358.465, "text": "Thank you. Yeah." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 5359.425, "end": 5361.665, "text": "Counselor Johnson, uh all your questions get asked." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 5366.685, "end": 5369.645, "text": "No, sorry. Sorry, no. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 5370.705, "end": 5378.605, "text": "first question would be uh you mentioned that not all customers are metered. Um which customers wouldn't be metered?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 5380.645, "end": 5400.605, "text": "There is a small subset of residential customers, so only residential customer types do not have a meter or are not don't have a meter that's reporting accurate information to us. These they could be all types of customers within those homes, but they are residential." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 5402.665, "end": 5418.285, "text": "Right. Um and then just in twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen there, um when we had an uptick in sorry, uh attachment uh one page nine, um just twenty seventeen there. What uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 5418.645, "end": 5430.605, "text": "would be the biggest cause for that water loss uptick? Would it have been funding ultimately? Would it have been council direction? Would it have been" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 5431.445, "end": 5432.165, "text": "uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 5432.545, "end": 5433.105, "text": "just" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 5433.825, "end": 5437.185, "text": "administration? Like what would have c been the biggest cause for that?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 5437.925, "end": 5479.605, "text": "I think it could be a a variety of and a combination of of those things that you mentioned. Uh one of those things that I mentioned earlier is 2014. We completed that universal metering program. So I'll say almost all of our customers have meters. So uh that uptick can start to represent some of the the information that we're collecting and and changing of some of the assumptions about how much customers were using and how much was uh due to to leakage as as well too. So combination of of all of those factors, but it it it's probably a reflection of of better data and and kind of validating some of the assumptions we were using in previous water loss calculations." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 5481.005, "end": 5483.625, "text": "Right. And if I were just to put on my" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 5484.005, "end": 5495.125, "text": "homeowner hat on top of my counselor hat here, how would you best explain to a taxpayer or water taxpayer how we" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 5495.805, "end": 5500.305, "text": "put money into the infrastructure maintenance of the system and we're still dealing with" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 5501.685, "end": 5505.065, "text": "what we're dealing with. How would you best ascribe that to a constituent?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 5506.385, "end": 5508.725, "text": "I I would say uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 5509.605, "end": 5552.885, "text": "cities and in a complex system like Calgary has, we typically expect some losses. And really we are trying to balance the level of investment uh to reduce that water loss uh for for customers uh for for build and and really freeing up system capacity and balancing that with uh the amount of investment is required to do uh different kinds of main replacement and really find that economic level of leakage and target uh zeroing in on on kind of that target. But it's it's really we're trying to balance uh that system renewal with how much uh how much that investment is going to going to result in uh a reduction of water loss." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 5554.005, "end": 5563.125, "text": "So are we undercharging customers compared to the maintenance that requires that is now required? If we had charged the proper amount, would we be dealing with this right now?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 5566.025, "end": 5600.065, "text": "I I I guess it's it's hard to uh uh it's hard to explain or or or just describe that. If if we would have done something different in the past, could we have uh avoided been here? Uh potentially if if we would have uh uh had this as a a priority for for investments over over time, we could have had a a different water loss. I I think that's what we're proposing right now is we know that water loss requires a consistent investment and uh vigilance over time, and that's what we're trying to bring here, uh bring forward here today." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 5601.105, "end": 5604.785, "text": "But you could see the frustration from a taxpayer, right?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 5606.145, "end": 5606.825, "text": "Absolutely." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 5608.165, "end": 5608.545, "text": "Right." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 5611.525, "end": 5614.805, "text": "I guess my hope is that we get this right at some point." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 5615.545, "end": 5616.065, "text": "Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 5617.645, "end": 5623.505, "text": "otherwise people are going to revolt. So yeah, thank you for those answers." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 5624.705, "end": 5628.265, "text": "Thank you. I have a couple questions myself before I go back to Councilor Bratostopolis." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 5628.585, "end": 5629.605, "text": "So the um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 5630.025, "end": 5636.225, "text": "This is uh sort of more of a proactive approach, I I'm assuming, uh as opposed to reactive." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 5636.785, "end": 5637.265, "text": "Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 5637.485, "end": 5637.865, "text": "I" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 5638.265, "end": 5643.545, "text": "was hit with a number of of uh water main breaks uh in my communities uh this spring," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 5644.065, "end": 5646.585, "text": "uh I guess because of the freeze thaw. And I'm just wondering," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 5646.965, "end": 5650.245, "text": "through this process, uh whilst we go through this evaluation," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 5650.765, "end": 5656.585, "text": "if we determine that a significant number of of pipe needs to be replaced in a given area," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 5657.005, "end": 5662.185, "text": "uh could we potentially see amendments to this budget uh going forward as insofar as" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 5662.445, "end": 5666.005, "text": "Maybe doing more of an accelerated program in a given area because of uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 5666.425, "end": 5673.265, "text": "an identified failure in a particular section or area that that was all developed around the same time frame." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 5674.345, "end": 5691.505, "text": "I would expect so. This program is intended to be a plan due check act process where we are evaluating the efficacy of the programs as well as the findings in the system. And then we'll be right sizing an approach as we go. So I um wouldn't want to um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 5691.705, "end": 5699.205, "text": "suppose, but I think that it's possible that um with more information we might be um proposing some changes to the program." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 5699.585, "end": 5705.025, "text": "Okay, so this funding is going to come out of base or so go at added to the utility rate, right?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 5705.325, "end": 5707.685, "text": "Yeah. This uh oh, sorry." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 5708.065, "end": 5713.865, "text": "Okay, sorry, and so lifecycle maintenance and upgrade reserve was that utilized for replacement or" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 5714.385, "end": 5721.745, "text": "for emergency uh sort of repairs and or was it always based back onto the onto the rate base for all of this infrastructure?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 5722.945, "end": 5728.885, "text": "This program is is based on the the rate base and and we use the uh I'll say reserve funding." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 5729.205, "end": 5733.585, "text": "Things like uh Bears Poss South Feeder Main, how to how to pay for for those kinds of" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 5733.585, "end": 5733.765, "text": "I'm thinking" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 5733.765, "end": 5734.705, "text": "Unexpected events." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 5734.705, "end": 5740.805, "text": "sorry, I'm thinking more locally, like in the community um kind of stuff. Is that all tied into the rate base?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 5740.805, "end": 5741.145, "text": "Yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 5741.345, "end": 5748.645, "text": "Okay. So n nothing from uh Elmer would uh would be supporting any of this upgrade lifecycle maintenance and upgrade" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 5749.145, "end": 5749.725, "text": "reserve." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 5749.905, "end": 5757.085, "text": "No, it's it's all like all of the the work that we do across the utility is uh is is funded by utility rates." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 5758.745, "end": 5764.785, "text": "Uh yeah, and thanks for taking the time to uh go through some of the more technical aspects of this report with me." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 5765.085, "end": 5767.665, "text": "Um specifically around cathodic protection. What I" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 5768.225, "end": 5771.025, "text": "The question I I didn't get a chance to ask you is um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 5771.405, "end": 5773.185, "text": "when we're talking about a metallic system," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 5773.345, "end": 5774.425, "text": "uh you know, where you've got" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 5774.765, "end": 5776.845, "text": "predominantly exclusive metallic system" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 5777.385, "end": 5781.905, "text": "and we're doing replacements in those, are we upgrading that to" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 5782.405, "end": 5787.165, "text": "uh say PVC or is it like for like replacement in those instances?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 5788.425, "end": 5793.905, "text": "Yeah, when we are replacing, we are replacing with PVC primarily in that main replacement program." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 5795.145, "end": 5796.565, "text": "Because as you pointed out, the" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 5796.885, "end": 5799.485, "text": "cathodic protection will slow the rate of degradation." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 5799.925, "end": 5807.085, "text": "But if you had installed it initially, it could have really uh extended the life of that asset significantly." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 5807.245, "end": 5807.865, "text": "Absolutely." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 5808.285, "end": 5821.465, "text": "As we are installing new metallic mains, primarily steel feeder mains right now, we are installing them with cathodic protection from the beginning. So we are cutting deterioration off from the start." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 5822.045, "end": 5826.705, "text": "Rectifier based, electrically induced, as opposed to sacrificial animal. Thanks." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 5827.525, "end": 5828.385, "text": "All right. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 5829.745, "end": 5834.545, "text": "I have no further questions. I'll just go back to the queue here to see if somebody else may have snuck in." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 5835.365, "end": 5836.305, "text": "And" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 5837.445, "end": 5839.545, "text": "of course, this mouse doesn't work when I want it to." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 5843.925, "end": 5844.265, "text": "Uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 5844.745, "end": 5846.685, "text": "Counselor Jameson, you have questions for advanced." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 5848.285, "end": 5848.865, "text": "Thank you, Chair." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 5851.465, "end": 5853.365, "text": "We've kind of answered uh uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 5853.525, "end": 5878.905, "text": "uh Counselor Johnston's question, but uh just for the layman person listening that just has no idea about our water utility, uh very simply, it's a lot of people asked me this question, and I think it's fair. How did we get here in the first place? Uh you know, a lot of people compared to Edmonton being so much more efficient, and people ask me, like, how is our water?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 5879.245, "end": 5884.585, "text": "Utility like this. So just simply ask, can you answer how we got here?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 5885.805, "end": 5930.245, "text": "I'll maybe start by addressing the the Edmonton question. I've had a number of conversations with colleagues there. I don't want to use this as an excuse, but it is a lot easier for them to find leaks than it is for us. A lot of their soils are like clay-based and it comes to surface. So uh when a leak happens, they typically see it and respond. Similar to us as as we uh uh repair and respond to to leaks as well, too. So just to address that, how did we how did we get here overall? Uh I I think if if I was to characterize it, uh we didn't pay as as much attention to it. It wasn't a driver for our for our business. Uh we had lots of water. Uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 5930.885, "end": 5969.805, "text": "It overall the incremental cost to producing a little bit more water isn't that much from a from a ratepayer perspective. So we let that increase. Now with less water availability, more pressure on our infrastructure, the need to conserve, it's a lot more important, and that's why we're bringing this program here today to really try and tackle this, get it to clear targets, uh, present council with the information they need to set those targets, and uh put a good program together that uh uh kind of has has the right balance of of investments to get us there." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 5971.325, "end": 5977.105, "text": "Okay. No, thank you. You answered it. You know, I guess you it like you said it wasn't a priority or the way it should have been." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 5977.265, "end": 5977.925, "text": "Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 5979.185, "end": 5980.665, "text": "a few more questions." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 5980.985, "end": 5997.065, "text": "The report talks about $342 million is proposed for the 2027 to 20 2030 uh budget cycle. Nearly double the 180 or 68 million from 23 to 26. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 5997.765, "end": 6006.225, "text": "So the split is 172 million on measuring and monitoring and 170 on repair and renewal." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 6008.685, "end": 6015.545, "text": "My instinct, and I think a lot of other people's instinct, is that the larger portion should go to fix the pipes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 6016.485, "end": 6036.505, "text": "But the small, you know, and the smaller portion should go to monitoring. But it it's it's not that way. And can you can you reconcile that? Because if you ask most people, hey, you know, what do you expect right now from the city of Calgary? What do you expect from these decisions we're making? And they're gonna say, we want the pipes fixed. That's what we want our money spent on." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 6037.945, "end": 6044.325, "text": "But when you when you start breaking it down, it it's just not correlating with what most people would expect." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 6045.765, "end": 6095.225, "text": "Yep. Great question. This coming budget cycle does represent a different approach. It represents the time in which we're spending the most amount of money that we've spent on meters since the initial implementation. So the 27 through 30 budget cycle is really increasing our access to meter information to help us identify those places where we want to be prioritizing for our main replacement and asset renewal programs. So I do expect in budget cycles going forward beyond 2030, we would see a shift in that percentage from about a 50 50% on system understanding and asset replacement and repair to be more heavily weighted towards." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 6095.405, "end": 6112.685, "text": "Fixing and replacing those leaking pipes to also support a further target past 2030. This budget coming budget cycle is really exciting with the upgrade to our metering program as well as system monitoring to really help us improve that system understanding." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 6114.205, "end": 6128.865, "text": "Yeah, no, that that's fair. I I think just a lot of people are not seeing the value in the in the monitoring. I think they they see the the value in the pipes being fixed, um and uh over half of the amount of money proposed is for" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 6129.145, "end": 6131.545, "text": "Uh essentially for the smart metering program, right?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 6131.985, "end": 6132.905, "text": "And uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 6133.345, "end": 6137.605, "text": "just a lot of people are just not on board with that. They just don't see the value to that at this time" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 6138.125, "end": 6140.565, "text": "and maybe hasn't been communicated. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 6140.865, "end": 6141.905, "text": "Sounds like great debate." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 6142.285, "end": 6145.525, "text": "possibly, but I'm I I got more questions. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 6147.705, "end": 6149.685, "text": "this is kind of a uh I guess" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 6150.465, "end": 6157.525, "text": "not maybe a bit of a hypothetical question, but um it's going back to our our licensing. Um and" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 6157.865, "end": 6158.525, "text": "so" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 6159.885, "end": 6160.465, "text": "uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 6161.545, "end": 6165.165, "text": "We right now we're we're responsible um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 6165.545, "end": 6170.385, "text": "for supplying water to adjacent communities and and we've talked about which ones those are." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 6170.985, "end": 6179.985, "text": "Is there a cost efficiency like or is it being achieved for us being the supplier? Um is it a good deal for Calgary?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 6180.545, "end": 6185.625, "text": "And if it is, um are there plans for us to expand this" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 6186.045, "end": 6188.985, "text": "and supply more water to more communities?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 6189.765, "end": 6191.705, "text": "Um that's that's my question." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 6192.905, "end": 6211.625, "text": "I'm I'm looking at uh maybe GM Thompson to uh weigh in on that. It goes a little bit beyond the the scope. I d I do know that the council has kind of given us the the authority for specific communities for servicing and ultimately uh expanding that is is council's uh uh uh council's direction to to be able to do that." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 6211.625, "end": 6223.145, "text": "Yeah, no, I'm I'm sorry, I'm gonna I'm gonna interrupt because that is outside of the scope of this report. Insofar as master service agreements with outside municipalities, this is something that we will discuss if and when the opportunity arises." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 6223.465, "end": 6224.045, "text": "This is not" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 6224.365, "end": 6225.265, "text": "what this is about." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 6225.745, "end": 6228.185, "text": "In our master service agreements, we do have a very" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 6228.545, "end": 6231.145, "text": "uh comprehensive process to determine" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 6231.425, "end": 6236.845, "text": "if and when we're gonna service folks, and it's beyond just the efficiency of our system versus them" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 6237.045, "end": 6237.785, "text": "creating their own." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 6238.405, "end": 6239.105, "text": "There's also" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 6239.825, "end": 6241.245, "text": "density requirements," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 6241.605, "end": 6249.705, "text": "planning principles that we associate with it. So, like I say, it's beyond the scope of this report. This is water efficiency and improving our own infrastructure. Sorry." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 6249.705, "end": 6286.525, "text": "Well that that's fair. I mean I I disagree because we're losing 23% and we're supplying for other uh municip uh uh municipalities basically. So I I think it's very much in the preview of this discussion because it affects us greatly. Um but I got one more question. Um just to do with the reporting back. Um, how often will we receive updates on the spending, the results? Uh we're making a very large investment here, and uh I think Calgarians want transparency and they want you know a clear pathway to how this" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 6287.105, "end": 6301.965, "text": "A dollar figure is actually fixing the pipes and like a simple um line to be drawn from the investment and the and the ROI. And and so how are we getting that information back so we can convey it to Calgaryans?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 6302.265, "end": 6324.685, "text": "I think we're we're proposing to report annually back to uh back to council and committee on all of those things that you you had just mentioned. I know Councillor Panasopoulos has a has maybe a proposed amendment to uh to look at that, but ultimately uh committee's decision if you want to see more frequent reporting, we can certainly uh certainly uh align to that as well too." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 6325.585, "end": 6326.745, "text": "Okay, no more. Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 6329.285, "end": 6330.325, "text": "Thanks, Counselor" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 6330.525, "end": 6333.045, "text": "Jameson. Counselor Kelly here out." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 6333.645, "end": 6375.565, "text": "Thank you, Chair. Um, I think my colleagues, Councillor Ward and Atkinson, asked most of my questions, so I won't go down that road. Um, I did want to jump in here though, just because um while this has been a very pleasant conversation, I want to recognize the fact that losing a quarter of anything on an annual basis is my definition of an emergency. And so I thank you very much for bringing forward the report to it to administration uh to to council, but I think it it is incumbent upon us going back that we have to pay attention to this on a on a regular basis. I wanted to uh the slide that uh that we have up here right now just sort of dive into it a tiny bit. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 6376.145, "end": 6415.325, "text": "I think Councillor Atkinson brought it up earlier just in terms of the scope of the size of the sit uh the growth of the city of Calgary. We basically have doubled in size since the 1980s when we were doing upwards of like 30 kilometers per year, and we got down to uh about 15 years on here, I would say that we were less than five kilometers per year being addressed. Um I think that the the L uh the ILI is a better value for us to take a look at. I'm happy to see on slide uh what is it, uh slide seven that um they track each other pretty closely, which is, I think, lucky for us. But I want to, in terms of this, I I" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 6415.825, "end": 6430.385, "text": "I'm worried that 15 kilometers per year is not enough, as uh as Counselor Ward was saying earlier. I'm wondering if you can just speak to that in a little bit more in terms of why are we not being more aggressive when this when we see" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 6430.845, "end": 6437.625, "text": "that emergency, that level continually increasing, the water loss level increasing." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 6439.405, "end": 6466.185, "text": "We are recommending a replacement rate of 15 kilometers per year for the next budget cycle. This is a significant scale up, and we do want to ensure that we are seeing the benefits of that particular aspect of the program before we continue to scale up. Water main replacement is a very surface, is a very disruptive activity and a very expensive activity, and we want to make sure that we are doing this in the most judicious manner possible." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 6467.525, "end": 6484.645, "text": "Yeah, I hear you in terms of it's disruptive. I completely understand that. Uh what I'm getting at in terms of doing more kilometers in a plan for matters because we can plan for that disruption. Because right now, the disruption that happens is uh uh uh much more disruptive than uh than it would be if we were planning for it." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 6484.865, "end": 6507.865, "text": "Um I I I accept your answer in terms of uh uh w you know wanting to see if it works, but I think we can we can see from past historical that it it does work and it's and it's pretty much the the main thing that works. If we uh clerks can just skip to the next slide. Um I really appreciate that you're starting off with improved measurement. Uh that makes a makes a ton of sense to me. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 6508.905, "end": 6526.105, "text": "Why d why do we not have better measurement right now, kind of going in the same direction as uh as Counselor Jameson was going? I'm just sort of curious like why have we not been able to um is it just we don't have enough measurement points or what what why have we not been able to find these over the past couple of decades?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 6527.785, "end": 6608.185, "text": "Great question. So there, I would consider our measurement good. You know, it has been adequate for a variety of institutional and operational purposes. In terms of our plant production meters, they they work, they provide a level of information that we've been comfortable with. We do want to continue to validate their accuracy as they continue to age. In terms of our system flow monitoring, this is something that we have some in our system. So each of our pump stations across the pressure zones do have flow meters as they leave the station. So we're monitoring the flow at each of those pump stations. What would help us is putting more flow meters into the system so we are better able to zoom in on some of those problem areas. Right now, the level of detail is still on a quadrant scale in some cases. So we want to be improving that. And as we are improving our access to data through our meter upgrades program, then the timing works well to be able to better align our information. And some of this is new technology that's really coming into the market right now. We are working to stay ahead of metering practices." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 6609.625, "end": 6644.825, "text": "Uh clerks, could you just go to slide six? I'm wondering, just based on that uh that answer you just heather, can you sort of tell us where in this system we will see the majority of the meters going? The reason I'm asking is because when we uh when we took a look at the water efficiency plan, most of the conversation that we had there was really focused on smart metering at homes, which is great for the end state to know what we have. But from what I'm hearing from your answer there, the the issue is we're we're pretty good at the end, we're getting better at the end, and and we're pretty good at the beginning, but the middle is a bit of a question mark when I think you even said there that at a quadrant level, which is" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 6645.585, "end": 6663.605, "text": "crazy big. Uh yeah, can you using this as sort of the uh sort of the chart here, like where are you planning on putting these meters and uh how many are we gonna get in? When are they gonna go in? Where are they gonna go? Yeah, uh questions like that so that we can start to get that better data to your very first priority within this plan." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 6663.985, "end": 6664.225, "text": "Yeah." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 6664.405, "end": 6751.305, "text": "We are the first pass on where we're planning to put them in is locations called pressure reducing valves. So in our system we've got on the order of 34 or so pressure zones that are supplied by our pump stations. Those pump stations are the primary mechanisms for getting flow to those zones, but there are other zone boundaries. So you can imagine if you've got an area of the city with pipes that are aligning against the next area of the city. Some of those interconnections are done through pressure-reducing valves. So they're allowing water to flow from one zone to another without having a pump station. Our first target for the implementation plan for the system monitoring is those pressure-reducing valve locations so we can improve our understanding of what is happening on a zone-by-zone basis. We are also reviewing the distribution system to identify locations, and they're primarily in that distribution downstream of our service reservoirs that we are installing those meters. The term in industry is often used as a district metered area, so it's a much smaller area. We have a couple of them already in the city, and we are expanding the number and our ability to better pinpoint those meters." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 6751.545, "end": 6754.225, "text": "How many how big's a district in that district meeting?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 6754.625, "end": 6778.285, "text": "Our current district-metered areas are really neighborhood basis. So we've got a couple. The Wildwood neighborhood is in a district-metered area, so it's quite that quite small, that small neighborhood. They're neighborhood scale. The proposed network low monitoring is not likely to get to the neighborhood scale, but maybe a community level scale." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 6778.885, "end": 6782.325, "text": "And how many of those districts do we have established right now?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 6782.405, "end": 6782.985, "text": "Six." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 6783.425, "end": 6788.625, "text": "How many do we plan to have at the end of the four uh this four year budget that we're looking at right now in this plan?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 6790.005, "end": 6795.105, "text": "I'd like to uh review a report for a specific number on that, but uh an improvement." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 6795.765, "end": 6799.585, "text": "Can you ballpark it at all for me? Are we looking to double, triple, yeah" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 6799.585, "end": 6812.725, "text": "Yeah, we're looking to break our system down from um larger zones to smaller zones and they could vary between the order of I'll call it 10,000 to 40,000 customers." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 6813.545, "end": 6831.245, "text": "Okay, thank you. I appreciate it. Obviously, I think that it, and you'll agree, like it all starts with measurement. If we don't have good measurement, then we're not going to get anywhere. So happy to see that you're looking to uh to find the right ways to get the to get this done. And then the next becomes replacing those mean meters and or uh uh mains." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 6831.445, "end": 6859.385, "text": "I'm not sure 15 kilometers is enough. I just want to be really clear on that. Uh, but because going back to where I started here, I do view this as an emergency, and I think we should be trying to accelerate this as much as we possibly can, because uh uh losing a quarter of our water is uh uh in in in my opinion, a lot of my neighbors, an absolutely crazy amount of of water to be able to lose, especially when we spent so much time and effort and money in getting it out of the river and getting it into the system." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 6860.245, "end": 6860.785, "text": "Thank you, Chair." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 6860.845, "end": 6863.465, "text": "Thank you, Councilor Kelly. Can we can we accept that as your debate?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 6863.465, "end": 6867.165, "text": "Yeah, you will. I'm not gonna I won't I won't debate for that exact reason." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 6867.265, "end": 6868.845, "text": "Counselor Yule, you have the floor." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 6869.365, "end": 6884.645, "text": "Um, just want to go back to the the residences that don't have any meters. How are they reflected in your calculations? Is it just kind of a formula? Like I know like it it would vary from household to household. How do we how do we reflect that in your analysis?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 6885.265, "end": 6924.665, "text": "It would vary from household to household. What we do now is apply a multiplicative factor on our average residential customers. So we have the number for what an average single-family home residential customer uses on a month-by-month basis. We multiply that by 1.5. These flat rate customers haven't had the downward pressures for economic reasons driving their consumption. And a few years ago, we did do a survey of what we thought those flat rate customers were using, and it was about 1.5. So recognizing that that is an area of uncertainty and one of those assumptions that are baked into this calculation." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 6924.885, "end": 6931.265, "text": "Right. So somebody in one of those residents could just have their sprinkler going for days on end and and we really wouldn't know." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 6931.925, "end": 6933.885, "text": "Not through their metered information, no." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 6934.365, "end": 6950.185, "text": "Um, is there any other operations that we do that we also use a calculation for? Like I'm thinking like when uh a fire department goes and and with like attaches to the um hydrant, like how do we factor that into all this?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 6950.245, "end": 6966.545, "text": "Absolutely. That's a great example of um uncertainty in this estimate. We do estimate a volume for fire fighting purposes based on the number of fires per year and an average flow per fire, but that's a a pretty high-level estimate." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 6967.065, "end": 6976.665, "text": "And and similarly when we have to like flush the system, is that another like I guess maybe a list of the the items that we are just calculating with a with a formula?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 6976.665, "end": 7045.605, "text": "Yeah, yeah, you're hitting some of the highlights. So firefighting is an estimate. Our city flushing crews, when city crews go out to return to service or monitor for water quality, they are metered. So we do have some numbers back from our our inside city operations. We have recently implemented changes to contractor flushing practices. Previously we had estimated values for that, and we're working with industry to improve reported values for that. I'm trying to think of what else is on the list. But those are those are probably the biggest items. We do, you know, estimates for other types of flushing, like our sanitarian storm flushing programs. We've had various pilot programs that have improved our estimates for that. And that was, for example, we had a cruise counting number of truck fills that they did per week of an average week of flushing the sanitarian storm and monitoring okay, so one truck fill is X, and then you have X truck fills per month. So it is an estimate, absolutely, but it is uh steps towards improving that accuracy." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 7046.005, "end": 7052.905, "text": "And and so we're we're working towards trying to um improve that accuracy on those levels as well." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 7052.905, "end": 7054.605, "text": "Yes, yeah, that is work for the program too." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 7054.705, "end": 7055.105, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 7055.325, "end": 7055.665, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7057.365, "end": 7058.525, "text": "Thank you. And um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7059.485, "end": 7061.385, "text": "sorry, I there's a couple of qu other questions that" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7061.965, "end": 7062.625, "text": "came to mind" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7063.045, "end": 7066.125, "text": "because of some of the other questions. In regards to uh meters" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7066.365, "end": 7068.025, "text": "at the residential uh level," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7068.565, "end": 7069.125, "text": "when" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7069.625, "end": 7071.085, "text": "someone sells a property," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7071.505, "end": 7073.965, "text": "it's a requirement for them to put a meter in." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7074.325, "end": 7075.905, "text": "During that transition, right? From" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7076.285, "end": 7077.305, "text": "homeowner to homeowner." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 7077.745, "end": 7078.345, "text": "That's correct." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7078.865, "end": 7081.405, "text": "So some of those ones it's older legacy" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7081.805, "end": 7083.825, "text": "homes that haven't sold. And" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7084.725, "end": 7085.105, "text": "um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7085.445, "end": 7092.525, "text": "and because I've I've argued this point with many seniors that have said to me, Why is my utility bill so high? I go, What do you have a meter? And they go, No," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7092.965, "end": 7097.525, "text": "and it's just me and my wife, and we hardly use any water. Well, you should put in a meter, you would save a bunch of money." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 7097.925, "end": 7100.405, "text": "We're happy to go and do those installations." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7100.665, "end": 7103.045, "text": "Okay, so and not only that, but the" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7103.345, "end": 7106.965, "text": "uh wastewater uh is a is a percentage." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7107.225, "end": 7108.565, "text": "of the water. So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7108.965, "end": 7114.445, "text": "um somebody's over sprinkling their their their lawn, but they're also paying a punitive rate" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7114.645, "end": 7116.845, "text": "that they're not returning back into the system, right?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 7117.905, "end": 7122.805, "text": "The wastewater would be also built on a f a flat rate based on that uh that assumption of" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7122.805, "end": 7123.665, "text": "Same consumption." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 7123.665, "end": 7123.825, "text": "yeah." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7123.825, "end": 7125.285, "text": "One and a half times to one." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7125.785, "end": 7126.925, "text": "Yeah. Okay. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7128.525, "end": 7130.745, "text": "another question. Oh, the flushing." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7131.325, "end": 7133.265, "text": "Sorry, I can can't help but ask this question." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7133.685, "end": 7137.705, "text": "Um so I know that uh there's a couple of community uh associations that have" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7138.005, "end": 7139.105, "text": "larger systems" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7139.305, "end": 7140.485, "text": "uh that have been" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7140.745, "end": 7142.625, "text": "assessed recently and there's been a" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7142.865, "end": 7147.285, "text": "Repeated flushing that's happened in those locations and it goes through the meter." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7147.725, "end": 7150.625, "text": "Do those CAs get charged for that amount that" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7151.065, "end": 7153.685, "text": "that we use to flush the system to" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7154.105, "end": 7154.745, "text": "uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7155.205, "end": 7159.565, "text": "to determine quarter uh wall water level water quality levels?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 7160.985, "end": 7178.525, "text": "Not sure the specific example, but typically if we are asking a customer to do some kind of flushing for for water quality or run their uh run their taps, let's say for our freeze prevention program, we do provide relief on their their bill uh for for that as well." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7178.605, "end": 7184.325, "text": "Okay, I'm gonna follow up offline with you on that because I do know of an instance and I don't think we've seen any" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7184.805, "end": 7186.925, "text": "any reductions on our bills." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 7187.625, "end": 7189.785, "text": "Happy happy to have that conversation offline." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7189.785, "end": 7192.485, "text": "Okay, thanks. Um back to you, Councillor Pancloppless." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7192.745, "end": 7196.125, "text": "Uh unless somebody else jumped in the queue here that I didn't see, but" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7198.185, "end": 7198.365, "text": "no," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7198.645, "end": 7199.485, "text": "not seeing any. Go ahead." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 7202.085, "end": 7204.225, "text": "Thank you so much, Clerk. Could you bring up uh the amendment?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 7204.745, "end": 7208.605, "text": "For members of committee, this is identical to what was uh circulated yesterday." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 7209.005, "end": 7273.605, "text": "Uh yesterday afternoon, yesterday evening. So I'll just uh maybe make a quick intro. Thank you, Chair. Uh water loss we've heard earlier today, uh 23% see in the report. I think it's important to quantify that during the hottest days of summer when we're consuming 800 plus million liters a day, that's 200 million liters of water, 80 Olympic-sized pools. A number we all agree is unacceptable, and we must improve. Faced with these continued losses, I am optimistic, cautiously optimistic, the proposed capital operating plan and the discussions we had today will get us to our 15% goal in a 3X uh ILI. I think very aggressive but critical plan, nevertheless. But with any plan, having clear goals, objectives, and deliverables are essential to ensuring success. Absent this, Council has limited ability to check in and to confirm whether the $340 million that's proposed is achieving our objectives. The proposed amendments provide Council and Calgary's a clear roadmap to exactly how we are going to succeed. With yearly check-ins, clear deliverables, and defined targets, Council will be able to properly monitor progress to ensure we are on track to achieving our objectives of reducing water loss. And I think something that's equally important if you look at point D." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 7274.105, "end": 7286.985, "text": "Key learnings, emerging opportunities and adjustments. I think something that we've heard is this is a bit of exploratory surgery, that we may go in and realize, hey, the water main system is absolutely what we need to focus on. We're gonna pivot capital there. Maybe it's the monitoring, as Councillor Kelly said." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 7287.445, "end": 7297.265, "text": "Excuse me, we need to pivot that. So I think having that check-in on a yearly basis, we as a council and Calgaryans and administration can work together and say what are we doing right, what are we doing wrong, and how do we amend." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 7298.065, "end": 7343.245, "text": "The proposed amendments are consistent with what our water panel recommends and supports, as evidenced with the letter recently forwarded to council. We just heard Bill speak about how a need for transparency and clear accountability with respect to outcomes of the plan, which these amendments do provide. And finally, administration if supportive of this revised approach and are aligned with providing regular and structured updates to council as amended. They're doing this work. It's now something we can actually have it quantified and into our Q2 reporting. I want to thank the members of administration that worked putting this amendment together with me and for answering those questions. $340 million is certainly a lot of money, but we have our to get our water losses down and continue to strengthen our water system. These amendments provide us with a mechanism to ensure we are meeting our objectives through oversight. I hope you can support this important amendment. Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7343.905, "end": 7347.545, "text": "Thank you. It's been a question raised by a member of committee as to whether" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7347.805, "end": 7353.885, "text": "or not the original recommendation from administration has to be considered prior to" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7354.185, "end": 7356.285, "text": "a member of committee introducing" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7356.645, "end": 7358.545, "text": "an alternate recommendation." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7358.965, "end": 7360.165, "text": "Madam Clerk," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7360.445, "end": 7362.365, "text": "is there specific rules around that?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_05", "start": 7363.985, "end": 7367.685, "text": "Um, thanks for the question. The procedure bylaw does allow for a main motion" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_05", "start": 7368.065, "end": 7368.745, "text": "um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_05", "start": 7368.985, "end": 7371.165, "text": "to be moved in an amended form" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_05", "start": 7371.705, "end": 7374.025, "text": "um or an alternate motion. So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_05", "start": 7375.445, "end": 7377.465, "text": "given that there was no main motion" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_05", "start": 7377.725, "end": 7379.345, "text": "um to move the" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_05", "start": 7379.905, "end": 7382.245, "text": "admin recommendation, this can also come in as" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7382.245, "end": 7385.505, "text": "It was just received for information. So an alternate recommendation can be put." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7386.105, "end": 7388.325, "text": "Okay, that's how I would have ruled, but I figured I'd" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7388.585, "end": 7390.665, "text": "rather hear it from the clerks'" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7391.065, "end": 7393.225, "text": "uh interpretation of procedural bylaw. And" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7393.725, "end": 7394.105, "text": "so" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7394.345, "end": 7398.145, "text": "based on that, I will rule that this is appropriately put. And so if there's any" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7398.705, "end": 7404.205, "text": "uh questions specifically, uh someone wants to speak to this amendment, uh I will go to the queue. And first up I have" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7404.605, "end": 7405.285, "text": "Counselor Ward." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_14", "start": 7408.485, "end": 7439.905, "text": "Um, yeah, I I'm going through the attachments for this, and under water loss update on page clerks, you don't have to bring this up, it's okay. On page three, it says ongoing transparency and oversight will be critical to maintaining progress. The program will be tracked over the long term with annual reporting to council to monitor performance, adjust actions as needed, and ensure continued alignment with service, financial, and environmental outcomes for Calgarians." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_14", "start": 7440.945, "end": 7444.845, "text": "That to me reads extremely similar to this amendment, so" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_14", "start": 7445.485, "end": 7449.005, "text": "um I will allow the mover to" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_14", "start": 7449.345, "end": 7450.445, "text": "answer that in there." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7450.445, "end": 7455.285, "text": "Could ask administration if they want to comment on that at least on the summation." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 7455.565, "end": 7458.385, "text": "I uh certainly our our plan was to" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 7459.105, "end": 7483.105, "text": "Consistently report back to to council and and committee on all of this information. I I think this amendment provides very clear direction on on what uh uh council and committee are looking for. Uh and uh yeah, no no issues. We are doing this work, absolutely, but it certainly gives us an outline for how to proceed and and what uh what committee is interested in moving forward." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_14", "start": 7483.365, "end": 7483.705, "text": "Okay." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_14", "start": 7483.845, "end": 7484.325, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_14", "start": 7485.225, "end": 7486.325, "text": "I'm good. Thank you, Chair." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7486.485, "end": 7489.405, "text": "Thank you. Um and I want to uh thank thank uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7489.725, "end": 7494.665, "text": "Councillor Pantozopoulos for working directly with administration and coming up with these recommendations and" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7494.965, "end": 7495.825, "text": "and that they are" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7496.165, "end": 7496.605, "text": "uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7496.765, "end": 7498.265, "text": "from my understanding at least uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7498.725, "end": 7502.825, "text": "supportive of the the direction that's being proposed in this amendment. And so" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7503.305, "end": 7507.005, "text": "for that um I will be supporting the uh the recommendation. So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7507.805, "end": 7509.985, "text": "counselor schmidt uh over to you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 7511.505, "end": 7517.085, "text": "Yeah, also just wanted to express uh my thanks to Councillor Francisopoulos and administration" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 7517.505, "end": 7526.105, "text": "for working on these based on the concerns that were raised today and the action we'd like to see. I think this is uh a very helpful addition" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 7526.545, "end": 7530.905, "text": "and will give us the transparency and the ability to" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 7531.465, "end": 7539.525, "text": "uh check up on actions and and progress in a way that will get us to the ultimate goal. So I'll be supporting this today as well." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7541.505, "end": 7545.845, "text": "Thank you, Counselor Schmidt. Back to you to close, Councilor Panthalopsopoulos." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 7545.925, "end": 7550.065, "text": "Thanks so much. And yeah, thank you, Councillor Ward, for bringing it up. And I would echo" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7550.065, "end": 7553.465, "text": "Sorry, before you do it looks like Counselor Johnson's jumped in here." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7554.205, "end": 7554.725, "text": "If you don't mind." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7555.405, "end": 7556.045, "text": "Counselor Johnson." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 7556.045, "end": 7556.445, "text": "Yeah." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 7557.785, "end": 7560.305, "text": "Yeah, sorry. I just wanted to mention um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 7560.525, "end": 7578.505, "text": "it'd be nice if uh administration would use something like this as a framework going forward for reports, um, just so we don't have to do this to ensure we get proper results and uh KPIs. Um but yeah, this is a great motion. Uh my man and I plan to support support it. Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7579.185, "end": 7579.605, "text": "Thanks." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7580.165, "end": 7583.105, "text": "Before I go back to Councilor Bantasopoulos, I'm gonna check." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7583.485, "end": 7584.545, "text": "Is there anyone in the room" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7585.125, "end": 7586.765, "text": "or online that would like to" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7587.245, "end": 7588.185, "text": "debate this amendment?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7589.265, "end": 7590.325, "text": "Not seeing anyone." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7591.245, "end": 7592.525, "text": "My apologies, I should have asked earlier." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7593.445, "end": 7596.205, "text": "Give you a couple more seconds to jump in the queue, seeing" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7597.005, "end": 7597.425, "text": "no one." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7597.945, "end": 7598.345, "text": "Overdue" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7598.745, "end": 7600.045, "text": "Councilor Bantasopoulos to close." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 7600.425, "end": 7610.245, "text": "Thanks so much and thank you, uh Councillor Johnson and Councillor Ward. I'll speak specifically to your two comments. I think echoing uh administration's comments about the clear direction certainly was the intent. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 7610.685, "end": 7635.345, "text": "they brought this forward, it's even referenced in the report. It was an administrative-driven report that's saying, you know what, we've identified a problem, how are we going to do it? And I think adding this extra amendment just gives a little more, I don't want to say teeth, but I can't think of a better term. Uh, things like the defined action plan, where something that it it could take a different deviation, but it's very clearly identified yearly target. So we can come back in a year and say, hey, 23 went to 24. Why? Why didn't it go to 22? The 4.8 went to" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 7635.665, "end": 7678.345, "text": "Four point something or other. So I think it's very important that we have very specific. I echo Councillor Johnson's comments that you know it would be wonderful to have this as sort of the standard, sort of this is where it's coming back, even though it's incorporated by reference, just having that sort of clarity and is something that's important. So I think it it's we all see the benefit. Uh 80 swimming pools is too much. Uh this is the right approach. We're we're taking the journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step, and and not to discredit the work that's been done before, but uh everything changed for us on December 30th with the water main break. And while this doesn't specifically address that, it specifically addresses the water system as a whole and the transparency that we need and uh hope we can support it and look forward to seeing those reports and the hard work that you'll be doing over the next uh twelve months and through our budget cycle. Thank you, and I'm closed." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7679.585, "end": 7679.905, "text": "Uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7680.285, "end": 7682.485, "text": "Madam Clerk, you can queue up the E scribe" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7682.765, "end": 7683.285, "text": "vote" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7683.585, "end": 7684.585, "text": "and members of committee." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7684.965, "end": 7686.105, "text": "Please go to E scribe to vote." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 7698.725, "end": 7700.105, "text": "Counselor Jameson, in your vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 7702.165, "end": 7702.525, "text": "Yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 7703.225, "end": 7703.385, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 7704.145, "end": 7705.365, "text": "Chair Shabot, all votes are in." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7706.225, "end": 7707.625, "text": "Uh please display the results." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7712.545, "end": 7714.205, "text": "That motion is carried 12 to 0." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7714.705, "end": 7716.445, "text": "Uh thank you, Ms. Bromley and Mr. Kidd." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7717.285, "end": 7718.325, "text": "Great presentation. Good job." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7718.585, "end": 7718.885, "text": "Thanks." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7719.665, "end": 7722.805, "text": "Next item up on the agenda is uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7723.905, "end": 7726.045, "text": "the event center" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7727.065, "end": 7728.765, "text": "district infrastructure update." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7729.545, "end": 7732.865, "text": "Do we have a public presentation to make on this matter?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7736.245, "end": 7737.385, "text": "We could then have" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7743.385, "end": 7746.925, "text": "Miss Romhertz and Ms. McLaughlin. I'm not sure who." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7747.065, "end": 7749.125, "text": "Sir Laka also here." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7749.865, "end": 7750.205, "text": "Laka." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7752.105, "end": 7753.085, "text": "Who will be presenting?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7753.345, "end": 7754.205, "text": "Oh, Miss Fromers." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 7758.605, "end": 7762.185, "text": "We do have a public presentation if committee would like." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7762.525, "end": 7763.065, "text": "Yes, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7764.565, "end": 7766.945, "text": "This is a brand new council. I think there's only" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7767.485, "end": 7771.765, "text": "three members of council present that were here previously, so I think it's important." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 7773.045, "end": 7788.925, "text": "Uh we do have a minor clerical amendment. So in recommendation number two, uh where the section numbers needed to be updated for the new Access to Information Act, I believe clerks has distributed the new uh cover report and presentation." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7790.945, "end": 7792.945, "text": "Sorry, which is the correction?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 7793.905, "end": 7797.185, "text": "In uh recommendation number two," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7797.285, "end": 7797.545, "text": "Yeah." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 7797.965, "end": 7800.485, "text": "just the section numbers that are referenced there." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7801.385, "end": 7803.185, "text": "So it's not section sixteen. What is it?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 7804.805, "end": 7807.005, "text": "Uh clerks, have you been able to distribute the new?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 7808.765, "end": 7810.025, "text": "Oh, it's coming. Okay." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 7819.885, "end": 7826.565, "text": "Yeah, it's not uh 1624. There's just new numbers that are associated with that Access to Information Act." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7827.805, "end": 7828.165, "text": "Okay." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 7828.585, "end": 7830.305, "text": "These are from the former FOIP Act." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7830.505, "end": 7830.825, "text": "Ah." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7832.365, "end": 7835.145, "text": "So it's Protection of Privacy Act or" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 7836.505, "end": 7841.645, "text": "Yeah, so instead of the FOIP Act, it's now the Access to Information Act. And so those section numbers just changed." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7844.425, "end": 7846.685, "text": "Access Information and Protection of Privacy Act." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7848.605, "end": 7848.865, "text": "Okay." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7849.025, "end": 7850.825, "text": "Thanks. Okay." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7851.345, "end": 7856.265, "text": "Accept that as a correction then an amended recommendation number two, Madam Clerk. Is that how we're gonna" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7856.825, "end": 7857.645, "text": "deal with this matter?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_05", "start": 7859.105, "end": 7862.545, "text": "um we do have the revised cover report so that" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7862.845, "end": 7863.025, "text": "Oh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_05", "start": 7863.025, "end": 7864.545, "text": "the corrected numbers" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7864.645, "end": 7865.625, "text": "has that been circulated?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_05", "start": 7865.865, "end": 7866.705, "text": "yes, it should be" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7866.705, "end": 7867.225, "text": "On East Crash?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_05", "start": 7867.225, "end": 7867.605, "text": "shortly." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7868.085, "end": 7868.525, "text": "Thanks." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 7868.965, "end": 7869.965, "text": "Okay, go ahead, Ms. Farmhurst." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 7869.965, "end": 7870.205, "text": "Okay." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 7870.365, "end": 7870.825, "text": "Wonderful." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 7873.485, "end": 7876.325, "text": "And we'll be able to bring up the presentation on the screen here." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 7880.105, "end": 7917.965, "text": "I'll go ahead and introduce the team while that's happening. My name is Carenza Swanson Fromhurst. I'm the director of public spaces delivery within our infrastructure services team. I'm joined here today by our city's project committee. So we have James McLaughlin, who is the manager of Event Center Delivery. We have Faisal Laka, who's the manager of Event Center Urban Development, and we have Bob Hunter. Bob is a special advisor to our team, and he brings a wealth of experience as an owner's rep, delivering projects of similar scope and scale. For example, projects like BC Place and Skydome in Toronto. And so they will be joining me to answer any questions that you may have today." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 7919.565, "end": 7921.225, "text": "If we move to slide two," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 7922.885, "end": 7936.225, "text": "council's previous direction is shown here, and a copy of that restricted report from 2023 is included in your package. Attachment one also shows the full list of all previous council directions on this item." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 7937.825, "end": 7938.645, "text": "Next slide." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 7939.785, "end": 7948.805, "text": "Today's recommendations are shown here, and you can see those updated section numbers on the screen that I mentioned as the change from the initial distribution." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 7950.065, "end": 7950.965, "text": "Next slide, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 7952.045, "end": 7973.965, "text": "So there are two sections to this presentation. The first portion is really an overview of the project and the area context. And the second portion is a brief construction update. But I really wanted to start today by sharing this two-minute video with you. It was created in 2023. I think it really captures the essence and the vision of this project. So if we can go ahead and play that now, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8086.165, "end": 8086.825, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8087.405, "end": 8090.065, "text": "If we could go on to the next slide." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8092.645, "end": 8101.385, "text": "As a heart of entertainment in the Culture and Entertainment District, Scotia Place plays a foundational role in supporting a vibrant and active downtown." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8102.045, "end": 8120.685, "text": "The project builds on over $1 billion of public and private investments already made in the area, including the BEMO Center, which you see in the upper left on the screen, and the upgraded 17th Avenue LRT station, which is shown there on the left as well under the BEMO, recently completed by CMLC." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8121.825, "end": 8133.925, "text": "Other area investments include the 17th Avenue Red Mile Reconstruction, the Glenbow Museum Renovation and Stephen Avenue Upgrade, and the Workmen and Olympic Plaza transformation projects that are currently being advanced by CMLC." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8136.005, "end": 8137.185, "text": "On the next slide," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8137.885, "end": 8139.665, "text": "you can see the Scotia Place Project," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8140.725, "end": 8160.285, "text": "which you're seeing there located in the middle of the screen. The Scotia Place project includes an approximately 18,400 seat arena, a 450 stall parkade, indoor and outdoor public plaza spaces, and a thousand seat community arena. There's a food hall and several restaurants, which are designed to serve as local amenities." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8161.445, "end": 8187.305, "text": "In addition to the building itself, the project includes several other components of work, one of which is the new 6th Street Underpass that you see in the upper right. This is an important new connection across the CPKC main rail line, and it connects the Culture and Entertainment District to the south with 9th Avenue and East Village onto the north. This will be a key corridor for both vehicle and pedestrians and has been carefully designed with those users in mind." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8188.265, "end": 8201.425, "text": "The project also includes several local street upgrades that are being managed by CMLC, and you can see those as the other orange lines on the screen there. So 14th Avenue, 5A Street, Floris Ledoux Parade, and some minor upgrades on Barn Road." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8202.405, "end": 8209.665, "text": "The teams here are paying very close attention to constructing a high quality public realm that aligns with the Culture and Entertainment District vision." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8210.625, "end": 8211.265, "text": "Next slide." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8212.705, "end": 8238.925, "text": "As we would expect, the investments being made here are in turn spurring more investment. Last year, the Culture and Entertainment District announced a $1.47 billion private investment in the 330-room autograph hotel that you see there on the lower right, which recently broke ground, and approximately 700 hotel rooms planned in the WJW development located just across McLeod Trail that you see on the left, which is currently in application review." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8239.885, "end": 8246.445, "text": "The red dots that you see on the screen are additional city owned development parcels that we expect to come online over the next few years." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8247.905, "end": 8281.045, "text": "East Village, which is to the north of CMLC, sorry, which is to the north of Ninth Avenue on this screen. And in talking with CMLC, we understand that East Village is also continuing to grow. There are five new projects starting in 2026, which will add 900 residential units and 132 room lifestyle boutique hotel as well. This is the strongest development pipeline seen in East Village since pre pandemic times. And these new developments represent another $1 billion in private investment being made here at the east end of downtown." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8282.125, "end": 8282.745, "text": "Next slide." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8284.925, "end": 8286.225, "text": "I wanted to share." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8287.765, "end": 8303.765, "text": "On the next slide, you will see a few highlights of the building itself. So Scotia Place brings all the modern operational improvements that are expected from this type of facility that will enable Calgary to support a wide range of shows and events, many of which we cannot support today." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8304.405, "end": 8322.145, "text": "One of the relatively unique aspects of this design is that the lower bowl is built entirely below grade, so that the internal and external public plaza spaces and the main concourse are all seamlessly integrated and accessible along the same level, which you see highlighted in red there on the screen." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8323.245, "end": 8336.005, "text": "This also means that the restaurants I mentioned earlier will be accessible from both the inside and outside of the building, lending to softer transition and better integration of Scotia Place with the surrounding communities." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8337.425, "end": 8338.285, "text": "Next slide." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8338.925, "end": 8364.985, "text": "Please. Furthering the concept of how community is considered in the project, I did mention the public plazas briefly. The outdoor plaza space is designed to hold approximately 3,500 people as designed for special events. Additionally, the project is designed where the adjacent streets can be closed and converted to walkable spaces for larger festivals and street fairs for upwards of 5,000 people." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8366.065, "end": 8381.305, "text": "I love this quote here on the right from our development manager, CA Icon. They've worked on over a dozen similar projects all across North America, and they specifically noted the high degree of intentional focus on community integration that we have here with Scotia Place." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8382.645, "end": 8383.565, "text": "Next slide, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8384.945, "end": 8390.645, "text": "Another community-minded innovation that I'm particularly excited about is the preservation of the Stevenson Building." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8391.525, "end": 8416.585, "text": "This building is an evaluated historic resource. It was a grocery dating back to 1911 and also served as a post office for several decades. It was located in Victoria Park on our project site. The project team worked very carefully with our city's heritage experts to physically integrate this Edwardian commercial building into the event center facade, where it will serve as a public facing cafe type amenity." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8417.645, "end": 8418.385, "text": "Next slide." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8419.645, "end": 8445.325, "text": "Before I move into a short construction update, I want to acknowledge the partners we have that make this project possible. As you know, the project is jointly funded by the city, the provincial government, and the Calgary Sports and Entertainment Corporation. But we're also building on the vision and the identity that CMLC and the Stampede have created and fostered for the Culture and Entertainment District. The project would not be possible without each of these partners here." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8446.245, "end": 8447.165, "text": "Next slide, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8448.505, "end": 8457.745, "text": "So this brings me to an update on construction. The project is well underway and it's actually now past the midpoint of our schedule for delivery." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8458.225, "end": 8465.405, "text": "You can see if you want to in your own time, there's a link there. You can see real time construction progress on the site." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8466.585, "end": 8473.645, "text": "If we go to the next slide, we always start off with safety. This project has an excellent safety performance record to date." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8473.925, "end": 8505.985, "text": "And that is in no small part because of the proactive approach that our development manager and our contractor have taken. With upwards of a thousand workers on site at any one time, there's so much to be mindful of, and it requires a multi pronged approach. Some elements of that you can see listed there on the left. I also wanted to share an innovative system that CANA is using on this project, where anyone can scan that QR code that you see there or text that number with a safety concern. These reports are processed promptly by site leaders to mitigate potential hazards in real time." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8506.905, "end": 8520.165, "text": "The project is one of the cleanest construction sites that I have seen. And with dedicated commitment to safety, there's strong evidence of proactive safety management. It's never a guarantee, but it's one of the best indicators of positive safety outcomes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8520.645, "end": 8521.365, "text": "Next slide." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8522.805, "end": 8537.925, "text": "In terms of our project schedule, this high level slide shows where we're at overall with the project. So we broke ground in 2024, and now two years in, you can see physically in the field, you can see the roof being installed, and we expect the building to be watertight by the end of the year." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8538.705, "end": 8543.945, "text": "We're on track for opening in the fall of next year and the Sixth Street Underpass opening the following year." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8544.485, "end": 8545.165, "text": "Next slide." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8546.905, "end": 8550.865, "text": "We also wanted to show you how the project team is managing the schedule in real time." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8551.405, "end": 8583.085, "text": "So while Clerks plays this video, I'll just explain what it is. We call it a 4D schedule. The construction team is able to program all the major construction steps and sequencing in 3D, which you see as the colored blocks come online there. And then they plot it along with the time at which the construction should be happening. So you see the timeline there across the bottom. This allows the team to easily see and plan for work, including any deviations that need to occur as construction progresses, and allows us to carefully manage and have oversight of that progression." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8584.025, "end": 8584.965, "text": "Go to the next slide." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8587.765, "end": 8606.925, "text": "This slide presents the progress being made on the project budget. So we've broken it into two sections. The left is the Scotia Place Building, so everything within the curbs, and the section on the right includes everything else. So that is everything from land acquisition to demolition, it's the 6th Street Underpass, the area roadways, etc." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8607.865, "end": 8619.705, "text": "So you can see that project funds are substantially committed. It's about 91% committed overall. That's shown on the gray bars. This means that the work is contracted with vendors and our contractors as it should be at this stage." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8620.685, "end": 8633.785, "text": "The black bars on the graph represent invoices that have been billed to date. So again, that's a spending rate that is in line with where we would want to see it at this stage of the project. Overall, about 35% spent to date." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8635.085, "end": 8636.025, "text": "Next slide, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8638.025, "end": 8651.725, "text": "As with all of our capital projects, we maintain a detailed risk register, and a copy of the more detailed risk register has been included as a confidential attachment today. This slide shows three summary risks that we wanted to highlight for you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8652.745, "end": 8671.245, "text": "The first risk is fast track delivery. Because we're committed to an aggressive schedule here, we do have to carefully manage a wide range of conflicting needs on overlapping spaces, which requires regular scrutiny and diligent coordination. That 4D schedule I showed you is one example of the tools that we use to manage this risk." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8672.445, "end": 8693.965, "text": "The second risk to highlight is ongoing market volatility, which we see, frankly, in all of our projects right now. We've mitigated this in a number of ways on this project through things like early procurement, adjusting scopes of material depending on what is available, using local Canadian suppliers for steel and other materials, local labor market, and more." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8695.385, "end": 8714.105, "text": "The last risk that we've highlighted here is what we're calling district alignment. So, because of the overlapping work that I mentioned that's happening all within the same area, it requires a really high degree of collaboration, problem solving, and working together that we don't see on every project. So that requires just a different degree of attention and care here." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8714.905, "end": 8728.545, "text": "So the current status of these risks is all green, and that's because they're being very actively managed and with intention. They've varied over the life of the project so far, and they may vary again before we get to project completion." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8729.145, "end": 8729.805, "text": "Next slide." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8732.045, "end": 8748.265, "text": "So I cannot understate the appreciation and respect that I have for the degree of professionalism, commitment, and spirit of collaboration, and the expertise that the team you see here on the screen and all of the individuals behind each of these entities have brought to the project." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8749.245, "end": 8761.505, "text": "It reminds me a little bit of watching an orchestra play where each instrument has their own role to play, but they have to work in tune and in time with everyone else. And when it comes together, it makes for a beautiful and inspiring outcome." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 8763.085, "end": 8772.285, "text": "So that brings me to the end of our presentation. As I mentioned, our team is here to answer any questions you may have, and we're happy to go in camera if you wish to discuss any of the confidential items." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8773.465, "end": 8780.405, "text": "Thank you, uh Ms. Farmhurst, for your presentation. Before I go to committee to for direction, I'm gonna ask, although there's nobody registered," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8780.905, "end": 8785.325, "text": "um I I do feel that I should ask if there's any members of the public that wish to speak to this item" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8785.965, "end": 8786.845, "text": "uh either" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8787.005, "end": 8788.765, "text": "in pr present or online." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8789.825, "end": 8791.125, "text": "Any members of the public?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8792.565, "end": 8794.125, "text": "Seeing none," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8795.065, "end": 8801.765, "text": "I am now going to turn to members of committee for any questions or directions related to" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8802.305, "end": 8803.405, "text": "the confidential items." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8805.745, "end": 8806.465, "text": "Any questions?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8808.765, "end": 8811.245, "text": "And can I have somebody move the recommendations and" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8814.225, "end": 8814.905, "text": "counselor" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8815.485, "end": 8816.205, "text": "uh ward?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8816.525, "end": 8817.845, "text": "You want to move the recommendations?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8818.505, "end": 8818.785, "text": "Okay." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8819.045, "end": 8820.405, "text": "Any questions for administration?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8821.485, "end": 8821.785, "text": "None." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8822.205, "end": 8825.605, "text": "Wow, it's such a great presentation. Doesn't look like there's any questions." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8826.085, "end": 8830.585, "text": "And thank you for providing all of that background information for the uh confidential items and" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8831.065, "end": 8834.345, "text": "It was very comprehensive and uh I think it paints the entire picture." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8834.865, "end": 8837.165, "text": "I can see why there's really no interest in" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8837.965, "end": 8838.705, "text": "pursuing it further." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8840.265, "end": 8840.765, "text": "Thanks." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8840.945, "end": 8843.425, "text": "So uh counselor ward, do you want to introduce the item and" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8845.265, "end": 8846.065, "text": "just moving it?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_14", "start": 8846.285, "end": 8847.785, "text": "Not much to say, just move it, yeah." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8848.545, "end": 8848.885, "text": "Okay." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8849.245, "end": 8850.505, "text": "Uh any debate?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8852.385, "end": 8855.105, "text": "Seeing none? Back to you to close." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_14", "start": 8855.525, "end": 8856.185, "text": "We are closed." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8856.565, "end": 8856.825, "text": "Okay." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8857.125, "end": 8858.565, "text": "Over to you, scribe to vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_05", "start": 8871.345, "end": 8872.505, "text": "Chair Chabot votes are in." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8873.585, "end": 8874.945, "text": "Uh please display the results." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8879.385, "end": 8881.345, "text": "Uh motion is carried 12 to 0." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8882.385, "end": 8884.225, "text": "Uh, members of committee, we um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8885.065, "end": 8891.105, "text": "We were going on for some time and uh our folks in administration that were here to present on item 7.4," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8891.605, "end": 8892.545, "text": "I believe were" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8893.305, "end": 8895.625, "text": "expected that this item was going to go" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8895.785, "end": 8897.005, "text": "on beyond" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8897.845, "end": 8898.645, "text": "the lunch" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8898.845, "end": 8899.845, "text": "recess. So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8900.285, "end": 8903.725, "text": "my suggestion is that we recess now and reconvene at uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8904.205, "end": 8905.025, "text": "at quarter to" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8905.205, "end": 8908.245, "text": "or sorry, ten to one, if that's accessible to this committee." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8909.945, "end": 8912.985, "text": "Okay, do we need to motion to change the time of recess, madam, madam clerk?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_05", "start": 8914.025, "end": 8915.705, "text": "If there is unanimous consent, the" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8915.845, "end": 8919.445, "text": "Okay, are we all in agreement with the changing the time of recess?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8920.465, "end": 8921.285, "text": "Any opposed?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8922.465, "end": 8923.085, "text": "Seeing none," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 8923.365, "end": 8924.705, "text": "that motion's carried. We're recessed." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 12652.865, "end": 12654.165, "text": "Clark, do a roll call, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 12655.705, "end": 12656.685, "text": "Thank you on the roll." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 12657.425, "end": 12658.345, "text": "Counselor Wyness," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 12660.725, "end": 12661.665, "text": "Counselor Jameson," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 12663.105, "end": 12664.025, "text": "Counselor McLean," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 12665.745, "end": 12667.005, "text": "Counselor Panthezopoulos," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 12668.105, "end": 12668.945, "text": "Counselor Schmidt," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 12670.145, "end": 12671.005, "text": "Counselor Ward," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 12673.525, "end": 12674.465, "text": "Counselor Ewell," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 12676.305, "end": 12677.325, "text": "Counselor Atkinson," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 12678.285, "end": 12679.305, "text": "Councillor Clark," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 12680.125, "end": 12681.145, "text": "Counselor Dallywell," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 12681.805, "end": 12682.905, "text": "Counselor Johnston," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 12683.865, "end": 12684.785, "text": "Counselor Kelly," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 12688.425, "end": 12691.285, "text": "Councilor McLean is here and Councillor Ward is here." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 12693.185, "end": 12696.145, "text": "and Counselor Tyres, Mayor Farkas," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 12696.445, "end": 12697.365, "text": "and Chair Chabot." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 12698.065, "end": 12698.445, "text": "I'm here." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 12698.705, "end": 12699.925, "text": "Thank you, Chair. We do have quorum." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 12700.745, "end": 12701.305, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 12701.745, "end": 12703.905, "text": "Uh thanks committee for" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 12704.185, "end": 12705.725, "text": "coming back in a timely fashion." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 12706.425, "end": 12712.645, "text": "And we will now go to item 7.4. We've got Paul Atkinson, Kyle Ripley," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 12713.485, "end": 12716.765, "text": "and Julian DeProsser here to present." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 12716.985, "end": 12718.745, "text": "I assume probably Paul's gonna take the lead." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 12719.965, "end": 12721.065, "text": "Please come forward." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 12721.685, "end": 12723.465, "text": "Is there any need for a presentation?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 12725.865, "end": 12727.865, "text": "Committee members like a presentation?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 12728.165, "end": 12728.545, "text": "Yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 12728.845, "end": 12730.145, "text": "Okay. That would be a yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 12730.945, "end": 12731.345, "text": "I was" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 12731.725, "end": 12733.025, "text": "thinking it might be no." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 12733.785, "end": 12736.145, "text": "I mean I I I don't like to go straight into the question." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 12736.745, "end": 12737.905, "text": "Okay, go ahead, Paul." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 12738.585, "end": 12739.065, "text": "Sorry." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 12741.645, "end": 12772.665, "text": "Good afternoon, Council. Hopefully everyone had a good lunch. And just for the record, we did not prep that grade one class to advocate for trees and playgrounds. That was not a sophisticated manipulation by the Parks Department, but very much appreciated from our perspective. So we're here today as a direct response to the notice of motion almost a year ago today from Ward 2 and Ward 5 put forward last year to review the 2 billion trees agreement program update from." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 12772.985, "end": 12788.865, "text": "From a tree equity lens. So we're here to report back to council today on how we've applied equity decision making to the distribution of trees across the city. And I'm Paul Atkinson, the Urban Forestry Lead, and I'm here with my colleague from Urban Forestry." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 12789.005, "end": 12792.285, "text": "Hi, I'm Jillian Prosser, a business policy planner with Urban Forestry." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 12793.565, "end": 12794.465, "text": "Next slide, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 12797.085, "end": 12817.105, "text": "So previous council direction, we were to prioritize neighborhoods that were equity disturbing. We were to report at a community level on our progress throughout the program and align with our 2060 goal of hitting 16% canopy target. Next slide, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 12818.705, "end": 12834.965, "text": "The recommendations are to receive this report as a response to the notice of motion advancing tree equity through the 2 billion tree program, direct administration to report annually on the urban forestry operational metrics, and during budget deliberation in" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 12835.965, "end": 12854.245, "text": "Deliberations in November. Uh consider approval of capital funding for the 2027-2030 for urban forestry lifecycle and MDP target programs to achieve stated targets within this report and uphold the federal two billion tree funding agreement obligations." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 12855.265, "end": 12856.285, "text": "Next slide please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 12858.065, "end": 12907.485, "text": "So the main components of our urban forest are segmented into these four categories. So we have large public trees, and you'll often hear this number talked about, and it's about a half a million. And those are individual assets that urban forestry and parks tracks on our GIS, and we we track data to those points. But that doesn't mean we only have half a million trees. We also have a ton of trees that are located in microforest sites. So this is also part of our two billion tree planting operations. And these are sites that are typically less than a hectare in size and wider than two meters at any point. And then we have our natural forested areas such as like Griffith Woods comes to mind. And then private trees play an important component of the urban forest as well, with about 70% of land being privately held. Next slide, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 12910.025, "end": 12922.645, "text": "So we're currently on track with our metrics. So the the measure is done once every three years. So the last time we measured was in 2024 and we used some updated measurement um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 12923.045, "end": 12982.345, "text": "Tools as technology has improved to enhance the accuracy of our measure, and it was measured at 9.62% citywide, putting us on track for our 2030 target of 10%. If I can draw your attention to the red line on the graph, so this shows the distribution of those 500,000 approximately inventory trees across the city. So that canopy measure of the 9.62 isn't really picking up anything below that red line because we only pick up trees that are over two meters in height and of significant canopy, and they expand exponentially over time. So as you can see, what this graph is showing is that we have a lot of opportunity over time as these younger trees mature and contribute to the urban forest. So it typically takes about five to ten years after planting before they start getting picked up of the tree canopy measure, which is a lagging indicator and a current state indicator. So it really shows the outcome of the work." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 12982.665, "end": 12985.125, "text": "But it can take a bit of time before it" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 12985.365, "end": 12989.185, "text": "registers in the canopy measure. Next slide, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 12994.045, "end": 13015.585, "text": "So so far throughout the program we have planted approximately 358,000 trees across the city of Calgary, and we are on track with the program to complete all 930,000 that were part of the program with the 2 billion tree agreement." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 13017.905, "end": 13024.665, "text": "In 2027 and 2028, we do rely on capital funding of 12 million to." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 13025.205, "end": 13034.865, "text": "Meet the terms of our contribution agreement and complete the 930,000 trees. This year we're on track for planting about 180,000, which will be," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 13035.065, "end": 13038.325, "text": "I think, the most trees ever planted in the city of Calgary" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 13038.845, "end": 13040.865, "text": "in a single year." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 13041.165, "end": 13042.225, "text": "Next slide, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 13044.525, "end": 13045.165, "text": "So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 13045.905, "end": 13070.865, "text": "this is the real meat of it, how we apply the equity decision making. And it's a multi stage process. So the first step is we have to garner community feedback. It could be through 311, could be through parks and open spaces, operational planning, and community feedback as well through our partner organizations and volunteer groups about where trees would be most desired." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 13071.505, "end": 13090.405, "text": "And then we have to look at the functional tree distribution layer across the city and establish where is it feasible to plant trees, what is the current canopy cover or age of the existing trees in that community, and how many trees per hectare are there existing. So that's the real" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 13090.625, "end": 13093.885, "text": "Driving indicator of where the canopy will be in the future." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 13095.385, "end": 13115.465, "text": "And then we apply the social Calgary Equity Index tool to our decision making. And in addition to that, we'll also use a tool that's called Healthy Clan Healthy Plan Canada and local community knowledge to help identify where out of the areas where there's opportunity, where" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 13115.905, "end": 13133.345, "text": "Where would be most valued to the community to install more trees? And then after we go through that process, we rank all the sites and determine which are operational ready, and we have to eliminate places that might have conflict due to future development or utilities and things like that." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 13134.145, "end": 13161.245, "text": "So we also define tree equity here as the benefits provided by trees are available to all residents through fair access, engagement, and tree distribution throughout the city. So there are multiple components to it beyond just the tree distribution across the city. We also have to take into play like social engagement and social equity across the city. Next slide, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 13162.605, "end": 13203.625, "text": "So, what this has resulted in in the program to date, so this is showing 2023 to 2025. And I just want to be very clear on this fact. So, in order to present a citywide report, we have to roll it up to war on the ward basis. But operationally, none of my team makes the decision on the ward basis. We have to look at this on a community-by-community level. And I'll draw your attention to the graph here. So the red line is the percentage of canopy across the city, and the green line being the number of large caliper trees that have been planted in those wards. Now, when you drill down, I'll draw your attention to ward five. So ward five also" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 13203.965, "end": 13213.465, "text": "they they have a very high number of trees we've installed, but they also have things like the airport and industrial areas that when you look at it as a combined total," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 13213.725, "end": 13227.625, "text": "It it makes it seem like it has less canopy in some of those living communities than it actually functionally does. So we have to look at the community level with our team, and then we go ground truth street by street, zone by zone," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 13228.165, "end": 13248.545, "text": "park by park, to determine where we can install more trees. And when you moderate for population as well, that also shows a more equitable distribution across the city. In the main report, we have that level of detail, but that's not practical in a PowerPoint presentation. Next slide, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 13250.265, "end": 13289.065, "text": "This distribution shows the microforest planting to date in the program. And you can see Word 12 in this graph is similar. So the I believe Word 12 has a larger number of microforest sites, but they are smaller in nature, so less trees. And also one of the main drivers is age of the community. Back to that, looking at what is the potential based on the stems per hectare that are in place and how they will expand across the city. And again, you can see the red line overlay here of the current canopy percentage. Next slide, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 13290.425, "end": 13364.725, "text": "We love talking about this program. This is the branching out program. So this is the history of it. It had humble beginnings before this, where I think it started at about 500 trees. So in 2023, you can see we've got about 2,000 trees that were distributed across the city. And then in 2024, we brought in an equitable lens to the program where we assigned 50% more trees to the northeast and southeast, which traditionally have lower canopies than the northwest and southwest. And we distributed the same amount of number in 2025, and we noticed that the citizen uptake was increasing, and the program was getting fully subscribed in literally a matter of minutes last year. So this year we doubled the program again in a significant number to 10,000 trees. And we're so proud of Calgarians and the rainstorm this weekend because they all showed up and got their trees, which was phenomenal. And I just a shout out to the City of Calgary teams as well that endured the wind and the rain. They're out there all day handing out trees to citizens, and the vibes were generally good. And it just speaks to how much people love this program and how much citizens support trees across the city." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 13365.205, "end": 13420.245, "text": "Or at least that's the message I took away from that, but uh also very proud of everybody involved. We we're looking this year as well at expanding the program to include 700 trees to fill the gap that we've had traditionally in the program, which was multifamily homes where direct residents uh want to sign up, but they they don't have control over the land space. So it's through like um the um the uh condo boards and things like that that we need to engage with. So we've got 700 trees this year assigned to that, and I think there's already about 600 or so assigned. And then we're also looking at engaging industrial areas too to find these pocket corners where we can work with landowners to do perhaps like microforest sites or plantings on engaging the private land and industrial areas as well, where there's opportunities." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 13421.125, "end": 13422.125, "text": "Next slide, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 13424.185, "end": 13455.125, "text": "So again, just a summary, receive this report as a response to the notice of motion, advancing tree equity through the 2 billion tree program, and direct administration to report annually on the urban forest operational metrics. During budget deliberations in November, consider approval of capital funding in 2027 to 2030 for the urban forestry lifecycle and MDP target programs to achieve the stated targets within this report and uphold the federal 2 billion tree funding agreement obligations." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 13457.025, "end": 13460.105, "text": "And through the chair, that completes our presentation." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 13462.185, "end": 13464.185, "text": "Uh thank you for that presentation, Mr. Atkinson. I'm" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 13464.645, "end": 13469.365, "text": "if I'll turn to committee for questions. Uh there are some members of the public that would like to speak to this matter. So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 13469.745, "end": 13471.485, "text": "I'll ask you to take a back seat for a" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 13471.925, "end": 13473.145, "text": "a little bit and uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 13473.705, "end": 13476.005, "text": "I'll ask um members of the public. I have" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 13476.305, "end": 13477.445, "text": "listed um Ms." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 13477.985, "end": 13481.245, "text": "Aisha Zaheer and Eileen Deans" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 13481.685, "end": 13483.325, "text": "if you'd like to present. And if you'd" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 13483.505, "end": 13484.465, "text": "please come forward." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 13486.085, "end": 13495.965, "text": "Um you each have five minutes to present to the committee. Please stay on topic and no disrespectful um discussion or reference to" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 13496.345, "end": 13497.025, "text": "either members of" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 13497.705, "end": 13498.465, "text": "council or" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 13498.925, "end": 13501.365, "text": "committee or administration, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 13501.905, "end": 13502.885, "text": "Uh and uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 13504.225, "end": 13506.085, "text": "Looking forward to hearing your presentation. You have five minutes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 13506.785, "end": 13507.805, "text": "And please introduce yourself." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "start": 13508.625, "end": 13509.105, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "start": 13510.645, "end": 13511.805, "text": "Hello everyone." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "start": 13512.105, "end": 13520.305, "text": "My name is Aisha Zaheer and I live in Livingston, a new community in uh Northeast Calgary, Ward 3." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "start": 13520.845, "end": 13528.765, "text": "I'm a tree equity ambassador with the Calgary Climate Hub, and I'm here in favor of the report." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "start": 13529.485, "end": 13534.165, "text": "I want to share why this program matters personally to me and to my neighbors." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "start": 13534.725, "end": 13542.465, "text": "Livingston has a canopy coverage of just 0.48%. That's one of the lowest in the city." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "start": 13542.805, "end": 13547.525, "text": "Compared to the citywide average of 9.62%." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "start": 13548.285, "end": 13569.225, "text": "That gap is not just a number, it is the reality of everyday life in our community. Livingston is a newer neighborhood with a lot of young families. Parents who want to take their kids to the park on a summer evening, watch them play soccer, and simply sit under the shade of a tree." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "start": 13571.325, "end": 13584.305, "text": "That sounds like a small thing, but it is something that sometimes families in their older established neighborhoods across Calgary take for granted. In Livingston, we don't have that yet." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "start": 13585.125, "end": 13595.885, "text": "I also want to raise a concern I found directly in this report in Livingston. 27 trees were planted in 2024." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "start": 13596.305, "end": 13600.285, "text": "In 2035, that dropped to just one tree." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "start": 13601.565, "end": 13605.185, "text": "Only 14 are planned for 2026." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "start": 13605.965, "end": 13611.785, "text": "For a growing community with hundreds of young families, that pace is not enough." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "start": 13612.345, "end": 13614.445, "text": "So, my question for council is" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "start": 13615.305, "end": 13619.405, "text": "the report acknowledges that near Northeast community," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "start": 13619.725, "end": 13635.465, "text": "Calgary communities like Livingston have some of the lowest canopy coverage in the entire city. The federal 2 billion trees funding is available, but requires matched capital from the city beyond 2026." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "start": 13635.925, "end": 13662.825, "text": "What specific commitment can council make today to ensure that communities like Livingston with under 1% canopy coverage and growing young populations are named priorities in the 2027 to 2030 capital funding plan and not just absorbed in a city wide average that masks how far behind we really are." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "start": 13663.525, "end": 13664.225, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 13665.625, "end": 13669.925, "text": "Thank you, Mrs. Ahir. I'm just gonna look to see if there's any" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 13670.345, "end": 13674.265, "text": "questions for you from committee members. Uh Councilor Yule." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 13677.445, "end": 13679.425, "text": "Yeah, that's okay. Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 13680.745, "end": 13682.665, "text": "So how long have you lived in Livingston?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "start": 13683.405, "end": 13686.285, "text": "I moved there in 2020." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 13686.525, "end": 13696.025, "text": "Yeah, so it it is we're definitely a a young community. It's eight years old. We're missing a lot of things and and trees are are are one of them. So definitely" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 13696.345, "end": 13705.985, "text": "wanted to just assure you that I'm gonna make sure that we uh we get our fair share of trees up in in in Ward Street. So thank you for coming in and appreciate you taking the time to to speak." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "start": 13706.385, "end": 13745.925, "text": "No, thank you very much. But I my my concern was only when I go for walks and I have three young kids. I sometimes go on uh when they are playing soccer. So I don't find even young trees along the pathways or the around the soccer field where I can just sit and enjoy their game. I know uh before moving to Livingston, I used to live in Hamptons. And I know that that's an old neighborhood, but I just wanted to see some even small young trees around the pathways. Um, and I know it's gonna take some time for them to mature, and we can see similar picture that we are seeing in Hamptons." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 13745.925, "end": 13761.425, "text": "Yeah, absolutely. I I I do uh I'm I'll make sure to ask administration on some of this because with Ward 3, we just want to make sure that we are planting in the right places and and that's in in our communities. And and so I I'll definitely ask administrations." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "start": 13761.425, "end": 13761.745, "text": "Perfect." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 13761.745, "end": 13762.085, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "start": 13762.085, "end": 13763.025, "text": "Very much. Thanks." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 13763.025, "end": 13767.645, "text": "Thank you. Don't go away yet. I think uh Councilor Wine S questions for presenter." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 13768.265, "end": 13770.305, "text": "Yeah, I I just want to get some clarity because" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 13770.885, "end": 13779.085, "text": "I you live in Livingston, which is more towards the northwest, but you're saying the northeast needs more trees. And yet when you look at Livingston and all" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 13779.365, "end": 13784.105, "text": "the north section from northwest across, we all need trees. So I'm just kind of curious on" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 13784.905, "end": 13785.325, "text": "uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 13786.305, "end": 13788.225, "text": "what you think about the entire Northwest" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 13788.725, "end": 13794.905, "text": "and I would argue the southwest and southeast and the whole outsider right ring road getting actually access to more trees" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "start": 13795.645, "end": 13823.485, "text": "Yeah, yeah. So there are areas in uh in southwest and northwest that has more trees and and there are some in uh other communities, but relatively I I am in Livingston, that is the Livingston is is both in northwest and northeast. I'm from the northeast part of the Livingston. So yeah, when I notice that area, I feel like it struggles the most. Um one of the most, not the one. So um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "start": 13824.545, "end": 13829.645, "text": "like I feel like there needs to be some attention um that is needed there." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 13829.765, "end": 13831.185, "text": "to the new communities." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "start": 13831.185, "end": 13831.445, "text": "Yeah," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 13831.445, "end": 13832.465, "text": "Okay, thanks." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "start": 13833.085, "end": 13833.665, "text": "thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 13834.225, "end": 13837.545, "text": "Thank you. Um seeing no further questions for you, I'll ask you to" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 13838.565, "end": 13840.245, "text": "please return to your seat. Thank you for being here." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 13840.385, "end": 13840.745, "text": "Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 13841.825, "end": 13844.165, "text": "Okay, uh next up we have" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 13844.725, "end": 13845.105, "text": "Eileen" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 13845.385, "end": 13845.965, "text": "Deans." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 13846.385, "end": 13847.525, "text": "Like to please come forward." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 13849.865, "end": 13850.705, "text": "Thank your presentation." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 13851.225, "end": 13851.585, "text": "Yeah." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 13852.005, "end": 13853.125, "text": "Five minutes. I" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 13853.365, "end": 13854.165, "text": "typically say" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 13854.565, "end": 13859.085, "text": "this is an opportunity for you to raise questions but not ask questions directly. Uh I" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 13859.325, "end": 13861.405, "text": "probably f failed to mention that before, but" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 13861.725, "end": 13866.025, "text": "certainly you can raise questions in your presentation that council might want to continue consider following up." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 13866.565, "end": 13867.285, "text": "You have the floor." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13869.225, "end": 13869.685, "text": "Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13870.045, "end": 13872.425, "text": "I live in Ward 10, as some of you may know." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13872.925, "end": 13878.205, "text": "Uh Whitehorn, it was established approximately 50 years ago," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13878.625, "end": 13881.245, "text": "and I have lived there for the better part of that." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13882.865, "end": 13883.785, "text": "My first" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13884.265, "end": 13886.625, "text": "page there is what I see when I step out" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13887.145, "end": 13889.265, "text": "today and yesterday in my front yard." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13889.845, "end": 13890.625, "text": "It's a" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13890.965, "end": 13891.865, "text": "it's a" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13892.765, "end": 13893.905, "text": "Ohio buckeye" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13894.545, "end": 13896.605, "text": "that has been with us for 30 years." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 13896.965, "end": 13901.265, "text": "Sorry, Miss Deans, could you maybe just stand a little closer to the microphone? Yeah, thanks." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 13902.025, "end": 13902.445, "text": "Appreciate it." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13902.685, "end": 13904.185, "text": "It's an Ohio Bacay," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13904.905, "end": 13905.625, "text": "which uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13905.865, "end": 13909.345, "text": "has been with us since it was a sapling about 30 years ago." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13910.485, "end": 13911.025, "text": "Uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13911.165, "end": 13913.685, "text": "then I look across the street, next page," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13915.285, "end": 13916.585, "text": "and I see" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13917.205, "end": 13918.845, "text": "an example. I'll go down" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13919.425, "end": 13923.645, "text": "the street because it's a perfect example of some problems with the existing" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13924.165, "end": 13925.425, "text": "canopy situation." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13925.985, "end": 13927.485, "text": "Given that most of our" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13928.345, "end": 13931.025, "text": "our canopy, 70% is what I read," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13931.485, "end": 13932.845, "text": "is on private property." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13933.225, "end": 13937.565, "text": "On the corner in the upper picture, you will see the original plantings" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13938.085, "end": 13938.805, "text": "that were there." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13939.345, "end": 13941.285, "text": "And a little closer you'll see that" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13941.905, "end": 13943.145, "text": "they're partly on," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13943.805, "end": 13946.685, "text": "well, they're on different lots, but they've massed together." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13948.065, "end": 13951.845, "text": "Then to the left, there's a house where the person chose," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13952.325, "end": 13954.105, "text": "for whatever reason, to take out" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13954.245, "end": 13954.725, "text": "their" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13954.925, "end": 13956.725, "text": "trees, original trees," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13957.785, "end": 13958.265, "text": "and" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13958.845, "end": 13959.925, "text": "they did the right thing." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13960.385, "end": 13962.105, "text": "It's called succession planting." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13963.165, "end": 13965.505, "text": "And that tree that you see in front." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13965.725, "end": 13966.225, "text": "Of that" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13966.725, "end": 13967.725, "text": "wing of the house" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13968.285, "end": 13970.205, "text": "is about three or four years there." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13971.145, "end": 13972.845, "text": "So it will grow up and" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13973.205, "end": 13974.145, "text": "take the place." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13975.445, "end": 13978.225, "text": "Then you go next door and you see something" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13978.465, "end": 13978.785, "text": "that" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13980.805, "end": 13982.685, "text": "probably should never have happened." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13984.045, "end": 13985.285, "text": "The house sold," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13986.065, "end": 13986.905, "text": "the new owners" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13987.445, "end": 13991.145, "text": "decided to climb the existing spruce trees that were there" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13991.785, "end": 13992.065, "text": "and" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13992.365, "end": 13993.465, "text": "defoliate them" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13994.085, "end": 13995.725, "text": "as far up as they could." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13996.465, "end": 13998.585, "text": "And they've been standing that way for" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 13999.225, "end": 13999.985, "text": "Two years." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14001.385, "end": 14002.565, "text": "The one tr" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14002.905, "end": 14007.325, "text": "set of trees still had some existing greenery on the top and struggled," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14007.945, "end": 14009.625, "text": "but I think it's gone now." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14010.345, "end": 14013.105, "text": "So we have two dead trees, and as I put in my notes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14014.125, "end": 14015.025, "text": "Oh, next page." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14015.985, "end": 14016.165, "text": "Oh," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14016.445, "end": 14017.145, "text": "okay. Yeah." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14018.865, "end": 14020.425, "text": "As I put in the notes there," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14020.865, "end": 14023.445, "text": "we've lost the hawks that we had there. We had" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14023.865, "end": 14025.185, "text": "hawks there for about" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14026.025, "end": 14027.185, "text": "10, 15 years." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14027.885, "end": 14028.445, "text": "They're gone." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14029.825, "end": 14031.865, "text": "There was a magpie in one of my shots." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14034.165, "end": 14035.665, "text": "Next page." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14036.665, "end": 14037.925, "text": "Formerly" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14038.325, "end": 14041.865, "text": "down about three more bloc three more houses." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14042.725, "end": 14049.565, "text": "There were two elms there. You can see the brown spots where the on the lawn where the sawdust is from the tree" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14049.925, "end": 14050.925, "text": "stump removal." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14051.645, "end": 14052.865, "text": "And there's the results." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14053.965, "end": 14056.085, "text": "No attempt to replant." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14056.945, "end": 14058.105, "text": "Probably not either." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14058.725, "end": 14059.585, "text": "Next page." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14061.425, "end": 14063.965, "text": "This is what happens when" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14065.225, "end": 14067.645, "text": "things get out of hand in our neighborhood." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14068.465, "end": 14069.345, "text": "There were two" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14069.845, "end": 14073.025, "text": "Manitoba maples mature that had been there for" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14073.185, "end": 14073.825, "text": "about" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14074.445, "end": 14075.465, "text": "35 years." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14076.885, "end": 14077.425, "text": "And" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14077.865, "end": 14078.805, "text": "the household," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14079.445, "end": 14079.845, "text": "the" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14080.645, "end": 14081.625, "text": "person who took it," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14082.045, "end": 14083.945, "text": "decided to turn it into" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14086.485, "end": 14087.445, "text": "rental property," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14088.765, "end": 14090.185, "text": "decided to take out" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14091.185, "end": 14094.025, "text": "the one maple tree, which you don't see there" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14094.485, "end": 14095.465, "text": "on the left side," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14096.565, "end": 14096.945, "text": "but" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14097.105, "end": 14097.925, "text": "the neighbor" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14098.345, "end": 14099.545, "text": "who shared" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14100.005, "end": 14101.505, "text": "Some of the canopy said," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14102.105, "end": 14105.445, "text": "uh-uh, not on my watch, you're going to get a professional" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14106.325, "end": 14107.105, "text": "tree remover." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14108.245, "end": 14109.225, "text": "So you can see" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14109.525, "end": 14110.505, "text": "that's clean there," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14111.365, "end": 14112.265, "text": "no damage." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14113.505, "end": 14115.405, "text": "The other maple stood for about a year," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14116.045, "end": 14120.085, "text": "and then the current owner decided that he would take it down himself." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14121.325, "end": 14122.305, "text": "He took it down" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14122.745, "end": 14125.085, "text": "across the neighbors' fences," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14126.125, "end": 14127.105, "text": "through their roof," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14128.565, "end": 14135.185, "text": "and if you look carefully behind all the carts there, you will see that there are three utility kiosks there." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14135.685, "end": 14139.565, "text": "That actually bar parking on the spot where that maple tree stood," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14140.205, "end": 14141.465, "text": "which also got" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14142.125, "end": 14143.105, "text": "damaged by the" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14143.465, "end": 14143.825, "text": "tree" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14144.965, "end": 14145.965, "text": "being taken down." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14146.625, "end": 14148.085, "text": "Fortunately, nobody was" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14148.305, "end": 14149.265, "text": "hurt or killed." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14150.445, "end": 14151.105, "text": "We were lucky." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14151.525, "end": 14153.005, "text": "But the remainder stands," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14153.285, "end": 14154.165, "text": "and if it fell," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14154.625, "end": 14156.545, "text": "perhaps in our direction, it would take" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14157.185, "end": 14158.885, "text": "all across the alley" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14159.185, "end": 14160.325, "text": "into our yard," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14160.465, "end": 14162.145, "text": "our fences and our trees." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14163.725, "end": 14164.905, "text": "And there's no control." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14166.925, "end": 14167.905, "text": "The next page." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14168.605, "end": 14170.265, "text": "I wanted to document" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14170.525, "end": 14171.785, "text": "just in a small way" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14172.245, "end": 14175.025, "text": "the number of dead trees that we have." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14175.465, "end": 14176.245, "text": "I know it's a" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14176.745, "end": 14177.305, "text": "it's a" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14177.505, "end": 14178.285, "text": "climate thing," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14178.945, "end": 14179.365, "text": "but" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14179.605, "end": 14182.445, "text": "we have the walking dead and the walking wounded" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14182.765, "end": 14185.045, "text": "in abundance everywhere in that" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14185.545, "end": 14186.245, "text": "district." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 14186.665, "end": 14190.065, "text": "Ms. Deans, your time is up if you have a concluding statement, but" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 14190.425, "end": 14193.185, "text": "You might want to stay tuned. Someone might want to ask you a question." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 14193.705, "end": 14195.145, "text": "So if you have a concluding statement." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14197.185, "end": 14201.945, "text": "Concluding statement I have, if you skip a few pages, I have" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14202.305, "end": 14203.965, "text": "a page of factors." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14205.625, "end": 14208.645, "text": "Which are causing the tree canopy to be" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14209.625, "end": 14210.785, "text": "eroded." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14213.165, "end": 14216.405, "text": "And I would also urge you to have a look" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14216.625, "end": 14217.065, "text": "at" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14217.685, "end": 14222.805, "text": "my comments about what's being put in to replace along the boulevards, which is causing" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14223.345, "end": 14224.485, "text": "a further problem." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14225.325, "end": 14229.245, "text": "Plus, I concluded with a case study of a park up the street" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14229.825, "end": 14230.865, "text": "where we've had" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14231.605, "end": 14233.765, "text": "massive transit crashes" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14234.185, "end": 14235.885, "text": "in winter because of the" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14236.265, "end": 14237.705, "text": "snow drifting and icing." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14239.065, "end": 14242.685, "text": "We don't put snow fences in place, I know why," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14243.465, "end": 14250.065, "text": "but we could use the old farmyard approach, which is line your driveway with a spruce windbrick." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14251.345, "end": 14256.125, "text": "And that's what I'm go I've gone into in the last two pages of my presentation." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 14256.505, "end": 14258.025, "text": "Thank you. Miss Uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 14258.485, "end": 14261.325, "text": "Deans, uh, Counselor Wynus, a question for the presenter?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 14262.345, "end": 14262.665, "text": "Go ahead." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 14264.245, "end": 14277.145, "text": "Um in your in your story about the removal of trees damaging property, uh do you think council needs to have a policy on tree removal of a certain height that you would have an arborist? Is that what you're advocating for?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14277.145, "end": 14282.465, "text": "I do think that anything above uh 10 or 15 feet, which" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14282.965, "end": 14283.465, "text": "would" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14283.885, "end": 14286.985, "text": "allow people to remove shrubs and shrubby" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14287.665, "end": 14288.225, "text": "trees," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14289.165, "end": 14290.845, "text": "uh, would be wise." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14291.865, "end": 14292.545, "text": "Because" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14292.825, "end": 14293.385, "text": "you" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14293.685, "end": 14300.345, "text": "just do not know the amount of damage. There's another case up the street years ago where they took down a giant poplar," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14300.845, "end": 14302.805, "text": "dropped it on the city sidewalk," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14303.925, "end": 14305.445, "text": "cracked the sidewalks," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14305.885, "end": 14313.225, "text": "and the storm sewer has always backed up since then. So I suspect that the damage went through all the way to the storm sewer." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 14314.065, "end": 14316.705, "text": "Yeah, that makes sense. You can see a lot of these videos go viral." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 14316.925, "end": 14317.425, "text": "Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14317.585, "end": 14321.725, "text": "I do think that a policy above a certain height" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14322.725, "end": 14323.605, "text": "would be good," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14324.025, "end": 14324.825, "text": "really good." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 14326.465, "end": 14333.145, "text": "Yeah, that makes sense. And then for what you didn't get to in your presentation about uh the trees along the boulevards." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 14333.805, "end": 14343.385, "text": "It so are are you are you advocating for specific species so that we can still drive and have vision like see? Or like can you elaborate what you're trying to get to with those slides?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14344.365, "end": 14348.765, "text": "The first thing is, yes, some species are better than others." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14349.665, "end": 14355.185, "text": "The kind of trees that they used in place of the poplars that were already taken down" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14356.045, "end": 14356.505, "text": "were" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14357.665, "end": 14358.365, "text": "really" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14358.545, "end": 14359.665, "text": "insufficient" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14360.185, "end": 14363.125, "text": "and harmful to safety." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14364.045, "end": 14366.565, "text": "They will not grow very tall." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14367.245, "end": 14369.265, "text": "They require a lot of pruning." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14370.385, "end": 14372.065, "text": "They require" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14373.425, "end": 14375.785, "text": "more space than those boulevards provide." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14376.145, "end": 14378.885, "text": "They're already intruding into the traffic lane" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14379.565, "end": 14381.305, "text": "and they're blocking the view of the corner." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14382.105, "end": 14386.225, "text": "It's an accident waiting to happen. And my favorite tow truck driver" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14386.925, "end": 14388.605, "text": "said experience" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14388.745, "end": 14391.705, "text": "is the ability to see" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14391.985, "end": 14392.625, "text": "and know" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14393.065, "end": 14395.865, "text": "what's going to happen before you take action." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14397.065, "end": 14400.165, "text": "This is a case where it's an accident waiting to happen." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14400.885, "end": 14402.665, "text": "And it's the wrong tree species." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14403.365, "end": 14405.625, "text": "That tree is lovely in a park." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14406.225, "end": 14407.585, "text": "Shrubs are wonderful." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14408.225, "end": 14411.565, "text": "They don't outgrow themselves too badly in a park setting," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14412.025, "end": 14414.485, "text": "but it's not suitable for a bull boulevard." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14414.965, "end": 14417.265, "text": "And I did include the example" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14417.765, "end": 14419.485, "text": "of what I call the ballard effect." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14420.465, "end": 14425.385, "text": "Those trees, those kinds of trees, have no effect on a speeding car." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14426.765, "end": 14432.245, "text": "We've had three incidents where speeding cars, including one where the guy killed himself," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14433.065, "end": 14435.405, "text": "that hit trees along there" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14436.165, "end": 14439.605, "text": "and were stopped by the trees before they mowed through." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14439.885, "end": 14441.545, "text": "The yards and into the houses." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14442.945, "end": 14444.025, "text": "I know because" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14444.325, "end": 14446.025, "text": "one of those happened on the morning." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14446.165, "end": 14454.345, "text": "I was going to my practicum evaluation, and I was an hour late, and nobody would believe that had happened. But" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14455.545, "end": 14457.325, "text": "they provide protection" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14457.585, "end": 14458.965, "text": "in so many ways" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14459.165, "end": 14460.745, "text": "if they're chosen carefully." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 14462.605, "end": 14464.265, "text": "Okay, thank you very much for your presentation." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14464.325, "end": 14464.845, "text": "You're welcome." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 14469.125, "end": 14470.685, "text": "Atkinson for this presenter as well." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 14471.305, "end": 14480.985, "text": "Yes. Uh you just you spoke about dead trees. Are those um dead trees that have been recently planted or are they j just trees that have aged out that you were speaking?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14480.985, "end": 14482.025, "text": "They dried out." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 14482.045, "end": 14486.305, "text": "They dried out. Like uh what new plantings that dried out or" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14486.305, "end": 14486.705, "text": "No." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 14486.725, "end": 14488.345, "text": "no. Oh, so these weren't yet" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14488.345, "end": 14491.685, "text": "Everything in the district is suffering from drought." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 14491.725, "end": 14493.125, "text": "from from the drought issue." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14493.125, "end": 14497.765, "text": "We live on an escarpment, which is part of the reason why there was a" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14498.065, "end": 14501.685, "text": "couple of gas plants in that area. It's a sandstone escarpment" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14502.105, "end": 14503.785, "text": "overlain by clay." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14504.845, "end": 14505.365, "text": "And" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14506.905, "end": 14508.285, "text": "down below" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14508.665, "end": 14511.345, "text": "where the hill drops is not as bad." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14511.945, "end": 14513.405, "text": "But up where we are" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14514.005, "end": 14518.625, "text": "used to be the height of land, it still is as high as Nose Creek," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14519.105, "end": 14520.505, "text": "or Nose Hill, rather." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14521.285, "end": 14521.805, "text": "And" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14522.925, "end": 14527.085, "text": "we're up there in the windy heights where they used to put the transmission towers." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14528.045, "end": 14528.485, "text": "And" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14528.665, "end": 14530.305, "text": "some allowance" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14531.085, "end": 14532.665, "text": "during extreme droughts" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14532.905, "end": 14536.625, "text": "is going to have to be made if you want to keep any trees alive." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14537.145, "end": 14539.625, "text": "Because even the cottonwoods or poplars" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14540.385, "end": 14541.405, "text": "are dying back." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14542.805, "end": 14545.165, "text": "And so a truck with a monitor, even" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14546.225, "end": 14547.205, "text": "once a week," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14547.545, "end": 14548.745, "text": "would probably help" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 14550.025, "end": 14554.525, "text": "in some of these public areas, but you're going to lose all the trees if something isn't done." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 14555.305, "end": 14557.325, "text": "Great. Thank you. Thanks for the clarification." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 14557.865, "end": 14558.145, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 14558.565, "end": 14559.665, "text": "Thank you, Miss Deans. I" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 14559.885, "end": 14562.745, "text": "believe that was uh final questions for you. Thank you for being here." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 14563.945, "end": 14567.925, "text": "Uh ask one more time if there's any other members of the public that wish to speak to this item." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 14573.925, "end": 14576.125, "text": "Please introduce yourself and uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 14576.625, "end": 14577.665, "text": "yeah, five minutes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14579.285, "end": 14581.025, "text": "Yeah, uh good morning" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14581.365, "end": 14584.125, "text": "or afternoon, Mr. Sha Alan Wolf is my name." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14584.605, "end": 14585.425, "text": "Mr. uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14586.365, "end": 14589.225, "text": "other some other counselors know me here a little bit. I'm in" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14589.505, "end": 14591.725, "text": "Mr. Ward's uh community." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14592.245, "end": 14592.865, "text": "Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14594.225, "end": 14606.165, "text": "yeah, uh my question, but uh more of a question is what is the survival rate of the trees in southern Alberta here in the in Calgary? Uh are some trees" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14606.525, "end": 14612.805, "text": "probably have a higher survival rate. We are in southern Alberta. The tree starts budding out." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14613.305, "end": 14619.605, "text": "And catches a frost. It's very hard on the tree. I know one fella had uh lost his entire tree farm." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14620.505, "end": 14622.845, "text": "I know some of the landscaping people, they" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14623.445, "end": 14625.805, "text": "insist on watering their trees" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14626.245, "end": 14631.205, "text": "that they do plant in the city here on the boulevards and stuff, so they can possibly make it through" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14631.845, "end": 14632.785, "text": "another year." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14633.905, "end": 14636.825, "text": "How much what's the deterioration rate?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14636.965, "end": 14638.165, "text": "I have no idea." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14638.845, "end": 14641.625, "text": "But I I see the branches right here at City Hall." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14642.605, "end": 14646.165, "text": "Waiting for the bus here. There's a branch there that needs trimmed black." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14646.525, "end": 14649.665, "text": "If it's windy, that tree that tree limb might come down." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14650.785, "end": 14654.925, "text": "Yeah, we have to look if we want canopy, we have to look after it." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14655.705, "end": 14659.825, "text": "Not just plant them and hope it doesn't fall in somebody's house or something." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14660.445, "end": 14662.005, "text": "Okay. And uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14662.765, "end": 14667.285, "text": "I uh I love trees too. I like to hug a tree. I use it." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14667.645, "end": 14671.465, "text": "Calgary Transit doesn't have any washrooms. I find it quite convenient." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14672.165, "end": 14672.745, "text": "Okay." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14673.925, "end": 14676.325, "text": "Go by behind some shrubbery or something." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14676.805, "end": 14677.545, "text": "And" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14678.585, "end": 14680.145, "text": "you know, it is uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14681.285, "end": 14682.085, "text": "I like trees." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14682.965, "end": 14686.205, "text": "I'm not against trees, but we have to make sure" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14686.885, "end": 14687.445, "text": "that we're" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14687.725, "end": 14690.405, "text": "planting more appropriate type trees." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14690.985, "end": 14693.365, "text": "Uh you gotta work with the landscaping people," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14693.545, "end": 14696.025, "text": "the tree nurseries and everything with this, I think." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14696.685, "end": 14703.765, "text": "Um not gonna be beneficial if they don't have the trees to plant. Well, you gotta haul them in from Manitoba or someplace, or what?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14704.365, "end": 14704.765, "text": "You know." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14705.465, "end": 14708.585, "text": "Um, it's gotta have to take more planting. This" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14709.005, "end": 14710.265, "text": "just planting a tree" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14711.245, "end": 14712.545, "text": "and" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14713.025, "end": 14717.765, "text": "hopefully it's still alive next year. And if you move away," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14718.285, "end": 14719.905, "text": "who's gonna look after the tree?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14720.785, "end": 14724.025, "text": "Um, gonna fall on some kid because it died?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14724.965, "end": 14726.545, "text": "I don't think this is uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14727.565, "end": 14730.785, "text": "we gotta make sure we're planting it out here a little bit more" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14731.005, "end": 14732.945, "text": "successfully. Uh right now," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14733.265, "end": 14734.125, "text": "I would suggest" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14734.685, "end": 14735.345, "text": "where's the" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14735.745, "end": 14737.785, "text": "Arborist, get that tree limb." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14738.085, "end": 14738.685, "text": "Right here" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14739.805, "end": 14741.905, "text": "on this avenue here, right across from the" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14742.605, "end": 14743.725, "text": "it's next to" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14744.405, "end": 14745.285, "text": "a city hall here," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14746.205, "end": 14748.445, "text": "that limb is coming down. I can see it." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14749.405, "end": 14749.885, "text": "Okay." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14750.805, "end": 14751.345, "text": "So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14751.985, "end": 14754.825, "text": "I still have half my eyesight. I can see stuff a little bit." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14755.305, "end": 14756.565, "text": "Thank you, Mr. Shoo," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14757.225, "end": 14758.485, "text": "for your time. Okay?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 14760.185, "end": 14761.325, "text": "Thank you, Mr. Wolf. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 14761.585, "end": 14762.765, "text": "I'm not seeing any" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 14763.345, "end": 14766.965, "text": "uh questions for you in the um in the queue, but um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 14767.405, "end": 14769.985, "text": "sure we can raise that question with administration when it comes forward." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 14770.225, "end": 14770.965, "text": "Okay, thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 14771.285, "end": 14773.065, "text": "Thank you for your for being here in your presentation." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 14774.885, "end": 14775.525, "text": "Okay, if I" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 14775.845, "end": 14776.805, "text": "sorry, any" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 14777.605, "end": 14779.845, "text": "I don't think there's any other members of the public" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 14780.405, "end": 14782.505, "text": "wish to speak to this or I oh sorry, go ahead." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 14782.845, "end": 14784.285, "text": "You and please introduce yourself." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 14784.745, "end": 14786.845, "text": "I don't think I have you down on my list, but" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_24", "start": 14787.425, "end": 14790.325, "text": "Hi, I'm uh Rob Miller and I live in Ward 1," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_24", "start": 14790.785, "end": 14794.045, "text": "and I'm a volunteer with the Calgary Climate Hub." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 14794.225, "end": 14796.165, "text": "I do have you on my list. My apologies." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_24", "start": 14796.845, "end": 14805.985, "text": "So, um, first of all, I just wanted to congratulate the administration for the report on advancing tree equity through the 2 billion tree program." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_24", "start": 14806.325, "end": 14815.305, "text": "Um, I've been working on the tree equity campaign with the climate hub for three years now, and uh this is very aligned with a lot of the" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_24", "start": 14815.525, "end": 14820.445, "text": "um things that we've been uh asking for, so so it's great. Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_24", "start": 14821.085, "end": 14826.905, "text": "I do have a couple of comments. And sorry, can you clarify questions are not allowed? That's" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 14826.905, "end": 14829.185, "text": "You you can introduce a question." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_24", "start": 14829.185, "end": 14829.485, "text": "Yeah." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 14829.485, "end": 14834.745, "text": "But you're not going to get an answer from this group, but it may be raised as a question to you after." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_24", "start": 14834.805, "end": 14840.445, "text": "Okay. Maybe I'll just phrase it as a recommendation then. Okay, thank you. So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_24", "start": 14841.705, "end": 14870.265, "text": "the order of the process, I'm referring to figure six on page 12 of the report. And the order of the process seems to indicate that the first step is site identification based only on 311 requests, community feedback, and the parks and open spaces initiatives. Social is only applied after the filters of feasibility, existing canopy cover, and stems per hectare." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_24", "start": 14870.805, "end": 14888.425, "text": "So if the goal is to target underserved communities, then I would recommend that the social criteria be actually the first thing that gets looked at. So we need to identify those neighborhoods that are identified as uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_24", "start": 14889.185, "end": 14894.245, "text": "neighborhoods that are uh have inequity in them, either through the" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_24", "start": 14894.645, "end": 14945.325, "text": "Things like the tree equity mapping or there's the social inequity mapping that was also mentioned in the report. So it would seem to me that you need to look at those first to identify the highest priority communities and then look at things like well who has who's been requesting more trees or which community associations have been working to get more trees. Otherwise, maybe more vocal communities will be getting those trees and not the ones that need the most." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_24", "start": 14945.485, "end": 14951.345, "text": "Priority neighborhoods that have been identified through this process that's that's in the report." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_24", "start": 14953.545, "end": 14957.205, "text": "The second recommendation I have, uh, and this one" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_24", "start": 14957.725, "end": 14960.425, "text": "is more around new communities. Uh so" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_24", "start": 14960.985, "end": 14988.405, "text": "when the developers are putting in the trees, they're not actually being uh logged uh in the city database, as far as I can tell. It in the report, uh, those communities didn't show any like past tree planting or 2026 tree planting. So, so those uh that data is not, it's got about a two year lag, I think, until the until the developer hands over the community trees for the city to start looking after them." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_24", "start": 14989.065, "end": 14990.205, "text": "Um so" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_24", "start": 14990.745, "end": 14999.165, "text": "in those communities, because they're new and there's a lot of new residents, young families, I think it's very important to get them uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_24", "start": 14999.605, "end": 15008.225, "text": "involved with tree planting, involved in looking after the trees and creating that awareness about the importance of trees. So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_24", "start": 15008.885, "end": 15012.025, "text": "You know, one of the recommendations I would make is that the" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_24", "start": 15012.305, "end": 15023.145, "text": "urban forestry is doing some great community tree planting around the city. I've been involved in several and we always get a huge turnout and it's it's great for creating awareness of" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_24", "start": 15023.345, "end": 15063.045, "text": "You know, the benefits of trees, how much fun it is to plant a tree, and it, you know, it's also a great opportunity to tell people that they need to look after trees. And so with a new community where you have a lot of very small trees that actually need more care than the mature trees and older communities, that's the right place to be targeting for these community planting events. So that would be one of my recommendations is to start looking at brand new communities and getting, you know, a community planting event hosted by either the community association with uh Calgary Parks to get them out there doing that. So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_24", "start": 15063.485, "end": 15063.945, "text": "thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 15066.125, "end": 15072.025, "text": "Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Miller, for being here. Let's see if there's any questions in the queue for you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 15073.605, "end": 15079.265, "text": "I'm not seeing any, but uh you raised some interesting points. I'm sure we can get administration to respond to some of them." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_24", "start": 15079.705, "end": 15080.445, "text": "Thanks very much." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 15082.705, "end": 15087.125, "text": "All right. I'm going to go back to the queue. Uh Councilor Kelly, I think you're first up. It's for admin." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15087.965, "end": 15089.865, "text": "Thank you, Chair. Uh admin." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15090.445, "end": 15091.865, "text": "Just a couple of quick questions here." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15092.485, "end": 15096.505, "text": "Uh first off, I wonder if you can just talk a little bit about watering. Uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15096.725, "end": 15122.405, "text": "Hugely in favor of this. Super excited that we're getting more tree canopy. But I hear from residents in Ward 4 constantly about the trees that are being planted dying. And that in their belief it's it's because of a lack of watering. I can see in the report that suitable site selection, uh what the ability to water is one of the main things that you consider. I wonder if you can just speak to this a little bit to sort of assuage mine and and my neighbors' concerns." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 15122.905, "end": 15158.745, "text": "Absolutely. One of the things where we don't do ourselves justice is historically we weren't removing trees in the same year that they died. So you'd see an accumulation of dead small trees hanging around because those are lower risk trees, obviously. They're not going to injure a citizen, so they don't hit our priority work schedules based on our available funding. So it gives this sort of observer bias to think more trees are dying than actually are, but that's not the case. So the stats are we we look at this every year with our summer students and we update tree survivability studies, and it's about it ranges." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 15159.605, "end": 15183.045, "text": "About 82 to 83% survival, which is really good because above that, what you'll see is the cost to increase above that number is higher than the cost to replace that number of trees. So we're always trying to find that operational effectiveness balance, and that compares and tracks very well with other municipalities in the industry and what they see." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15184.145, "end": 15200.965, "text": "Thank you. I really appreciate that answer. That's really clear. And I think that we can all take that back to our neighbors and share that info. Second question I had for you is just as it relates to attachment to the tables that are in there. Is the data in these tables correct?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15201.705, "end": 15205.585, "text": "I realize that you're like, why is he asking that question?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 15206.565, "end": 15206.765, "text": "Well," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15206.765, "end": 15207.945, "text": "You believe it's correct." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 15207.945, "end": 15211.985, "text": "first of all, yes, but second of all, off the top of my head, which one's attachment to?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15212.025, "end": 15214.085, "text": "Yeah, this is the" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 15214.085, "end": 15214.725, "text": "The full report." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15214.725, "end": 15238.005, "text": "Yeah, the planting plan. The planting plan specifically. The reason why I ask is because from some of the spot checks that I've done on table two, the totals don't equal what's in table one. They're off by a couple. Nothing on the spot checks I've done that are wildly off. But my bigger question is actually on table two, which is the um uh the caliper trees by community." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15238.205, "end": 15238.985, "text": "Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15239.685, "end": 15255.685, "text": "you've just given us a great presentation showing all the care and attention in terms of site selection and uh for in order to be able to get some more equity and whatnot. But every single one of the wards that's in here, the number of trees being planted is in alphabetical order." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15256.385, "end": 15264.085, "text": "I.e., like if we look at ward one as an example, Boness is getting one tree, whereas Silver Springs is getting 93." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15264.865, "end": 15273.505, "text": "Every single one of the wards is exactly that same that same way. That if you are a neighborhood with an alphabetically" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15274.465, "end": 15278.485, "text": "low name, you get a low number of trees. And if you're an alphabetically high," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15278.965, "end": 15286.645, "text": "this does not look this has got to be a mistake. Otherwise, what was the presentation about? Yeah. What's going on here?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15287.445, "end": 15288.845, "text": "I'll stop talking." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 15288.885, "end": 15292.605, "text": "I would say that is a data coincidence. Um versus" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 15294.725, "end": 15295.565, "text": "I find it" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 15296.985, "end": 15311.025, "text": "very strange. Thank you for pointing that out. But I I know our team does not take the alphabetical list and start associating trees. There's a a large process of ground truthing all these locations as well." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15312.385, "end": 15313.305, "text": "Yeah, I I" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 15313.305, "end": 15315.965, "text": "We'll take that away though and we'll we'll look at it." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15316.205, "end": 15321.345, "text": "please because I think that and feel free colleagues here, like I if I'm I'm missing something in terms of it." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15321.745, "end": 15325.325, "text": "Every single one of them is exactly the same way. They're re" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15326.205, "end": 15380.145, "text": "Yeah, it's gotta be a sword issue of some kind in terms of here that this is that this is not correct. Uh the reason why I ask it is where or where I discovered this first is when I was taking a look at Ward 4. Beddington Heights, one of the larger neighborhoods that we have, is getting one tree, uh, whereas an industrial park is getting a hundred and some odd trees. And I was like, that didn't quite square for me. Um I see uh I'll put a pin in that for now, and I mean maybe people are frantically uh uh DMing you right now, but um going down to the microforests by community, uh I see that there's a fair number of industrial parks listed in there. I wonder if you can just talk about the trees as it relates to industrial parks, and then up in ward four in the previous table, uh specifically Skyline West, which is an industrial park. Just wondering why that's included in the community one versus uh in the microforest one." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 15385.585, "end": 15399.005, "text": "Oh the yeah, the when we say community, it's as the technical description of community in our uh GIS system. So an industrial area would get lumped together in that community category. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 15399.765, "end": 15401.165, "text": "as far as" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 15402.385, "end": 15402.825, "text": "the" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_19", "start": 15402.825, "end": 15404.225, "text": "Planting in industrial" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_19", "start": 15404.585, "end": 15406.865, "text": "mic microforest in industrial areas." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 15407.325, "end": 15407.825, "text": "right." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 15409.765, "end": 15415.705, "text": "Yeah, I mean, one of the big opportunities where we have low canopy is in industrial areas. So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 15416.005, "end": 15429.865, "text": "I believe I although I'm not specifically familiar with the exact site they've chosen in that area, um, those are low canopy areas that would hit like um our team's radar for increasing canopy. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15429.865, "end": 15433.305, "text": "Can you maybe just simplify my question a little bit, just speak to like what" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15433.605, "end": 15440.045, "text": "like what qualifies you for the micro forest versus the uh uh the previous table?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 15440.225, "end": 15494.865, "text": "Oh, I see. Gotcha. Microforests, we need a larger area of land, a component which is like suitable for that style of planting. So they're typically like pockets of trees, if you will, like little mini forests that we'll find. They might be in the corner of a park, or maybe there's some underutilized lands that's been identified through reds that they say, you know, we can plant here because it has no other use and it's an opportunity to increase tree canopy. So for off of maybe another example I can give, you'll notice like the numbers are quite high. It's uh just north of Beddington Trail. We have a research site in play with reusing pond sediment as well, which helps reduce the preparation cost of the planting and reuses what would traditionally be a waste material. So we've done a large pocket of planting in that area." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 15495.345, "end": 15502.925, "text": "So that really boosts the number when you look at it at the ward level because that is a larger planting site where we have several plots of trees in there. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 15504.625, "end": 15506.105, "text": "I don't know if I've answered your question." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15506.105, "end": 15520.085, "text": "No, I think you did. Yeah, no, I I really appreciate that. Um I'll pass it back to the chair here, and uh if you could let us know what is up with that particular table. Um uh yes, Councilor Atkinson, I did see that too, that yeah, they're historical." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 15520.985, "end": 15522.325, "text": "That was for historical, sorry." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15522.325, "end": 15535.225, "text": "Yeah, no, those are historical. It's the 2026 one is the one that I'm specifically looking at. Yeah. Um apologies. Thank you. And I'd look forward to please jump in if somebody gives you a an answer here before we uh before we wrap up on this one." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 15535.385, "end": 15540.205, "text": "I'll have to go back. I I take responsibility. I probably sorted the table wrong in Excel." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15541.045, "end": 15544.525, "text": "I think you sorted it really well in malt in the same way." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15545.745, "end": 15549.445, "text": "You got overexcited on sorting a table. Uh thank you, Chair." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 15549.865, "end": 15551.985, "text": "Thank you, Councilor Kelly. Uh Counselor Yule." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 15552.605, "end": 15552.905, "text": "You're up." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 15553.785, "end": 15565.545, "text": "Um maybe picking up on Mr. Wolf's questions. Um should trees be in Calgary? Um historically we are more of a grassland habitat." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 15567.565, "end": 15568.905, "text": "Should like" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 15569.445, "end": 15572.365, "text": "should trees be here and what trees should be here?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 15573.685, "end": 15611.765, "text": "Thank you for asking that question. And through the chair, the the trees absolutely provide a ton of value in an urban context. So once you build a city or any heavy development, there is no longer anything native to that specific environment after it's heavily disturbed. And we have lots of evidence across the city. Um even in these areas where we've got this narrative we have to combat, because sometimes you'll hear things like, Well, you know, can trees even grow in the southeast? Can they even grow in the northeast? And the answer is yes, they can. Like we were downstairs down off 64th Ave." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 15612.325, "end": 15666.205, "text": "Northeast is an example working on our median rehab trial where we're experimenting with different soil profiles and we're doing that in coordination with Landscape Canada and several other academia institutions for a long-term study. So I'm standing there on the windy day, there's no trees around, we're going, this is the ideal site. Let's see what we can do. And I look across the way, and on a resident's front yard is this perfect, beautiful birch tree, fully mature. It's the only tree around, laughing in everybody's face, saying, trees grow here. And some of our largest um kind of what we call uh cool tree Fridays amongst our group, where we share really notable trees across the city amongst our team. Um one of them is like a large silver maple in one of these areas where you know traditionally people would say that trees don't grow. Um it's the largest one we have, and um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 15666.665, "end": 15705.945, "text": "So it's about designing properly, is what it is. So development policy at the time really impedes our ability to go grow trees through their full life cycle. We heard it nicely from the speakers today who I appreciated coming and pointing out a bunch of critical issues. And one of the things that I'd like to point out is it's not just about the input water, it's about how we design these sites appropriately in the first place to have adequate soil volumes and capturing that local stormwater into the soil profile. We circulate amongst our team as well, displaying that example where we've uh, if you look at older neighborhoods where they before strip and grade techniques applied." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 15706.365, "end": 15761.365, "text": "We have much deeper soil profiles, and we've observed roots of an elm tree down to three meters easily. And that that's a normal construct in a prairie environment as well, even in the undisturbed sites. Like that's how prairie grasses survive. They go really deep in the soil profiles. But when we build our cities, sometimes we compact that subground so densely that roots can't penetrate, and then we have this thin layer of soil on top. So then we end up with pictures like one of uh the speakers shared, where these young trees run out of rooting volume, you get these exacerbated heat events or accumulation of salts, and the trees die at a young age. So we're really working with policy development through the city building to build back better and rehabilitate, kind of more informed as science and knowledge and all of that has evolved so trees can survive through their full life cycle." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 15762.565, "end": 15763.105, "text": "Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 15763.805, "end": 15768.685, "text": "maybe just touching on what Mr. Miller said and taking" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 15769.045, "end": 15773.205, "text": "uh Ms. Sahir's example of Livingston, um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 15773.885, "end": 15785.245, "text": "like are are we not planting in some of these newer areas because they're still not built out yet by the developer? So are is it more the developer's responsibility over the city? Like, what's where's the balance there?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 15785.805, "end": 15803.465, "text": "Yeah, through the chair. Thank you for that question. It we we wait to go into these errors after they're released through FAC as they're developed. And some of these communities you'll see will be our highest STEMs per hectare in the city, even though they have really low canopy. And others are" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 15803.765, "end": 15842.165, "text": "You know, they're designed a certain way by the developer and then turned over to the city, and then we go in and can start to work or fill in the corners of areas. But it is challenging working in new communities for going in and you know changing the way it was built right away or the the the tree installations kind of thing. And there can be conflicts as well. Like we really struggle for space in some of these areas. Like you might have um stuff you can't see is like the biggest problem for our team, like underground utilities, setbacks, things like that. So um that can be challenging, which can impede our ability to go back in after the fact and install additional trees." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 15842.585, "end": 15854.525, "text": "Have we thought about making the branching out program targeted? Um like right now it's open to anybody. Would there be a benefit to phasing it to some of these lower canopy uh communities?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 15855.265, "end": 15856.785, "text": "Has that ever been thought about?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 15857.485, "end": 15913.865, "text": "Absolutely, that's been discussed. The branching out program is so widely successful that it just works quite well for getting so many trees out there. One of the things that we do in a very targeted way is we identified these back of walk spaces. So just explaining what that means, where we've got a sidewalk and then we've got like a portion of land that might be smaller than was traditionally available, where we can't go in with a big tree spade. And people think it's their front yard ultimately because it feels like their front yard because it's kind of between the house and the sidewalk. So what we've done is in targeted communities that have low canopy, high social equity score, we have our back of walk planting program, which is where we communicate with the community, hang flowers on the door, and give an opt-out option. So community members, even though it's public space, we we don't want to plant trees where people don't want them in front of their homes realistically, or it won't be successful." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 15914.205, "end": 15951.725, "text": "So in those cases, we are going into it's nine communities in 2026. That's also detailed in the report, and it's very targeted and very specific. So similar to what you're saying, but the branching out program evolution could potentially look at that. And one of the things we're working on in urban forestry is we're looking at enhanced GIS data for identifying where the planting opportunities are in each of these communities. So is it a public issue or is it a private space issue? And if it's private, the branching out is absolutely an excellent mechanism for targeting those communities." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 15952.465, "end": 15953.605, "text": "Um is" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 15954.345, "end": 15955.785, "text": "uh planting" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 15956.645, "end": 15965.345, "text": "just for the sake of canopy, like I'm looking on the list, uh Aurora Business Park uh has a high amount of plantings in Ward 3." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 15966.025, "end": 15974.145, "text": "Nobody lives there. It's gonna be developed in the future. Is that the right targeting of of of these plantings?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 15977.505, "end": 15987.325, "text": "I I think that's the Beddington Trail site um for that one. Um which actually isn't in the industrial area. It's like adjacent to the park, but um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 15987.885, "end": 15988.885, "text": "I would say" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 15989.445, "end": 16025.245, "text": "Yes, we need to plant everywhere is ultimately our general solution to the canopy percentage. Like we've been given these lofty targets of hitting 16%, which we were on track to do. And some of the areas that we can plant in are industrial areas. And I spent a lot of my life working out of industrial areas, and there's a lot of people there too, out walking during the day. And you get these exacerbated heat island effects with the amount of asphalt, stormwater problems, all that sort of thing in the industrial areas. So they are an important piece, but predominantly I think we we aren't planting in communities." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 16025.305, "end": 16063.025, "text": "Yeah, I I I guess I I disagree. I think the area along West Nose Creek, Nose Creek has a lot of ground nesting birds. Trees are the worst thing to put in in those habitats. And so I I guess I'd be aiming to be more in the communities rather like because Aurora Business Park isn't a business park. And will be a community in the future. But I think it's really about targeting where trees should be. And there are places trees should not be in this in the city. So that's just kind of a word of." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 16063.925, "end": 16075.805, "text": "Just I accidentally learned about a creek and and so now um I think it's really important that we are targeting the communities over some of these grasslands that should be tree free." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 16077.425, "end": 16098.925, "text": "I agree. We work with our colleagues in natural resource, natural area management as well. And there's lots of areas where trees don't belong. I mean, Nose Hill is our go to example that everybody understands, right? We're not targeting Nose Hill to plant trees, they don't belong there. There's preserved grassland areas where we're not planting trees nor looking at, and they get excluded from our analysis." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 16099.105, "end": 16119.285, "text": "Yeah, I just worry that if we're just aiming for percentages per like per area, uh, oh, here's a great spike, like here's an easy place to put trees when it's probably not the right spot. So it might be a little bit harder, but like making sure that we're we're targeting the the areas that have the the pavement that needs the shade that that those heat islands are. So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 16119.945, "end": 16121.705, "text": "But thank you. Thank you for your presentation." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 16123.445, "end": 16125.765, "text": "Uh thank you, Councillor Yule. Councillor Weinus, you're up." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 16127.765, "end": 16128.805, "text": "Thank you. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 16129.905, "end": 16133.565, "text": "when you were looking at your equity and using 311," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 16133.865, "end": 16135.145, "text": "I am a bit challenged with" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 16135.425, "end": 16143.865, "text": "with when we're trying to solve a problem of tree equity. We should have a plot plan and and and truly have an evaluation of where gaps are in in trees," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 16144.105, "end": 16144.705, "text": "or even" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 16145.105, "end": 16150.805, "text": "greenery, I guess you could call it, because like I look at my new communities, trees aren't surviving. Our watering plan w" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 16151.145, "end": 16151.405, "text": "w" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 16151.645, "end": 16155.225, "text": "wasn't correct for the water needs of planting new trees in the city." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 16155.745, "end": 16156.845, "text": "So it's a five year" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 16157.485, "end": 16161.005, "text": "plan that of continuous watering, not alternating watering like we designed." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 16162.205, "end": 16169.825, "text": "And so I just wonder how are you gonna become more proactive on this rather than requiring citizens to report a need for a tree." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 16173.065, "end": 16178.245, "text": "How are we gonna be more proactive in in managing struggling trees that are new?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 16178.245, "end": 16179.625, "text": "No, just tree equity. Like" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 16178.585, "end": 16178.705, "text": "Or" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 16179.625, "end": 16180.085, "text": "tree actually?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 16180.085, "end": 16187.365, "text": "like like I look at when we give trees away, predominantly it's first come, first serve, and we're handing them out to areas" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 16187.825, "end": 16191.145, "text": "uh like it's not equitable for the entire city to access trees." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 16191.445, "end": 16194.405, "text": "Because I think if I remember correctly off the data, it was all" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 16194.765, "end": 16197.185, "text": "uh on the east side of the city and the west side," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 16197.705, "end": 16202.465, "text": "could no one got in in time to actually get a tree. So how are we gonna when we give trees away," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 16202.765, "end": 16206.285, "text": "make sure it's a balanced giveaway for every quadrant of the city." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 16206.565, "end": 16213.685, "text": "Um while we say there's tree equity, we all still other parts of the city still need trees. And I I find our plan is is weak on that." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 16214.505, "end": 16220.105, "text": "So our our struggle is the the popularity of the program. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 16220.345, "end": 16238.805, "text": "It is unexpected as well because we we doubled the size of the program this year, hoping that would allow the registration window to be open longer as well, allowing some more time for people to sign up. But I hear what you're saying on the targeted nature. Like right now we've been using the quadrant method and" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 16239.465, "end": 16273.205, "text": "D and assigning 50% more trees in the southeast and northeast, typically where there's um less trees. However, we're also saying in our report that to truly apply tree equity, we need to look at it at the community level, which include all quadrants of the city on the community basis. And I think that's what you're saying. And and that's what we're doing on like the Back of Walk program, for instance. The Northwest often, like some communities in the Northwest often come up in that, as well as our public tree planting. But I think the branching out program is evolving year to year," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 16273.705, "end": 16277.945, "text": "and pending funding, availability, and continuation of that. We" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 16278.345, "end": 16313.605, "text": "We iteratively improve it each year. One of our challenges is to make sure that the money in administering the program is kept quite small and we can scale up without adding huge costs. We were at an inflection point a couple years ago where we to scale it up, we were going to have to add more people or spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on software. But we came up together, a lot of different teams came together to come up with like a really cost effective solution so we could put the money continually to the trees. Now, on a community level, doing it, each community." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 16314.625, "end": 16338.545, "text": "Hundreds of communities across the city. That would be extremely expensive and difficult, but maybe there's a way where we can look at maybe more of those equity deserving blocks of communities, grouping them together. These are all great ideas, and we'd love to continue to entertain them as the program evolves as well. It can just be challenging from a cost balancing perspective." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 16339.285, "end": 16348.425, "text": "But even for the tree giveaway, you could do it on postal codes and do once a limited like when we have our number, you say well we're capped at this area of the community" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 16348.585, "end": 16351.585, "text": "For first come, first serve, and it has to go across the city." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 16352.045, "end": 16352.625, "text": "Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 16353.325, "end": 16357.285, "text": "yeah, I'm still challenged by how we're actually addressing this problem with our city." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 16357.585, "end": 16381.905, "text": "Uh we we even heard we're not using snow fences, but where is our our balance of using trees to solve uh snow drifts? Like again, we're we're not really sol this is probably why we wanted to get rid of the climate emergency declaration, is because we're not actually solving the problem with the programs we create for uh climate and environment. We're not putting in uh tree species or plants that are actually gonna." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 16382.065, "end": 16385.545, "text": "thrive in the environment and the weather conditions we have. So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 16385.885, "end": 16388.905, "text": "um I'll st I'll stop there, but I'm st I I'm still" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 16389.265, "end": 16392.845, "text": "a little frustrated with the program and and how we're gonna actually solve this problem" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 16393.265, "end": 16394.465, "text": "with what's presented. And" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 16394.645, "end": 16395.185, "text": "oh more fine." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 16395.585, "end": 16396.025, "text": "Uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 16396.265, "end": 16400.725, "text": "what we find in audit too is when we go to Excel sheets we have more margin of error." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 16400.985, "end": 16411.265, "text": "And we're seeing it even in how the data was presented today. So we're gonna have to find a way to make sure our data is accurate um when presenting to council. But if you have anything you want to f fill in now, go for it." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 16414.085, "end": 16429.645, "text": "Just a follow-up through the chair. We are very focused on species distribution and selection across the city. Through the 2 billion tree program, we've planted over a hundred different species to push us away from this" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 16430.065, "end": 16432.425, "text": "monoculture style environment." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 16433.525, "end": 16449.125, "text": "Before I go to the next person, I'm going to ask you a very pointed question because you keep referring to the two billion dollar federal tree program and it's in the report. My understanding is that the two billion dollar federal tree program was actually cut in half. Am I is that correct in my assumption?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 16449.145, "end": 16457.165, "text": "No, the the 2 billion tree program was canceled by the federal government, but all existing agreements were honored to see them through." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 16457.445, "end": 16458.865, "text": "It's out of about 1 billion." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 16459.525, "end": 16470.465, "text": "Oh, oh, yes. Sorry, from the federal perspective, I'm reluctant to speak on their behalf, but I believe the the target was adjusted to one, I think." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 16470.605, "end": 16473.105, "text": "Okay. I I thought it was important to" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 16473.565, "end": 16478.265, "text": "just put that out there first before I go to the next set of questions. Uh Counselor Atkinson, you're up." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 16478.925, "end": 16480.405, "text": "Great. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 16481.525, "end": 16491.225, "text": "I want to give first a kudos. I the branching out program is great. I think like you're uh it's pretty cool. There's some uh uh the the difference in trees to" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 16491.365, "end": 16560.625, "text": "What is it, Tatarian maple being added into the mix? Love it. We're gonna see some maple trees. Uh it's cool. Um, but I do think actually that the point that Councillor Yes brought up is something that we need to look at across um our sign-up processes, especially for these kinds of free programs. So swimming lessons, uh, right? Like anything where we're having these like full done and Calgaryans love it, how do we apply it in a more equitable system, like a lottery-based system where people maybe register interest separate from um just first come, first serve, so that we can uh instead just open it up to people who aren't just there, click and refresh and have the time and capability to do so at a certain point uh on a certain day. Because the fact that you doubled this program and we still uh you know bottomed out on the other side really quickly, the love is there, just how do we extend that uh more equitably across the city? So that I just think it's a it's a really good point that I think we not it's not just for this program, something we need to look at for city programs across when they're signing up with that level of enthusiasm. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 16562.285, "end": 16581.445, "text": "Downtown getting some love, great to see. University district. Um, so that's maybe one and I'm not sure, would that fall into like a new community build-out and therefore it falls under the same sort of where it's up to them to be planting and then we take it over at at the point at which it's built out?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 16581.945, "end": 16596.105, "text": "Yeah, through the chair, we we generally citywide we get about 6,000 trees per year turned over to urban forestry from development. But yes, that's a newer area it's still developing. So there's, you know, I'm sure areas within there that are not turned over yet." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 16596.205, "end": 16615.385, "text": "Okay. And and so we have requirements built out around the like what they're they need to put in place in terms of trees expectations. Is there any sort of levy system though that helps with sort of like ongoing tree replacement, tree maintenance when those are handed over to the city?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 16615.865, "end": 16631.525, "text": "I very much appreciate that question. One of the problems we have is we don't in urban forestry, we don't control how many trees are turned over to us, but we're expected to make sure they survive. And we don't have funding associated to those turnover necessarily." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 16631.805, "end": 16663.285, "text": "So I think there's like an updated calculation in this year that provides more support for those trees that we're assuming because typically we water for five years on a declining schedule when a tree gets turned over. But some of these trees might have just been planted last year because they could be replaced at the end of a development cycle and then we get them year one. So it is challenging for us. We can easily spend two to three million dollars in watering trees a year." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 16663.765, "end": 16678.245, "text": "Out of our limited budget. So in our 10-year capital plan, we have accounted for the five year watering in the Capitol Ask, but for these developer trees, we have adjusted, I believe, the formula. I'll sort of" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 16678.385, "end": 16678.925, "text": "maybe" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 16680.165, "end": 16690.265, "text": "call up my colleague here, Mike Mann, manager resource stewardship. I'm not sure put him on the spot here, but if he knows the implementation time of that." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 16690.665, "end": 16692.965, "text": "I can sir. Thank you for the question through the chair." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 16693.465, "end": 16697.565, "text": "Yeah, Mr. Atkinson is correct. Traditionally, in the past, we've not had" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 16698.425, "end": 16704.965, "text": "clarity and metrics to support that increased ongoing maintenance or opex increase for developer planted trees." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 16705.845, "end": 16717.045, "text": "We do, as of this year, have a formula like Mr. Atkinson noted, and as recently as the most updated growth plans and packages that come through Council Belvedere is an example, that does include" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 16717.585, "end": 16720.085, "text": "an uplift for urban forestry to maintain those trees." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 16720.865, "end": 16726.825, "text": "So it it's it's a work in progress. I would say it's quite dynamic and it's constantly being scaled up as required." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 16727.245, "end": 16729.965, "text": "But there is funding coming towards forestry" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 16730.485, "end": 16732.485, "text": "for all new growth applications going forward." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 16733.145, "end": 16735.805, "text": "Great to hear. Thank you. Thanks for that." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 16739.785, "end": 16762.585, "text": "Uh the die-off, the sort of survivability, interesting, that 82-83%. Do we build in to sort of planting and costs? I think that perception piece, I think, right, seeing a sapling that has died definitely, I think, hits people like in an emotional way. I'm wondering if we build in" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 16763.885, "end": 16782.865, "text": "the costs of removing those trees as a part of the overall new plantings, and if that could maybe is a way in which we can start to maybe change the narrative a little bit around some of these plantings and getting people to understand that it's just it's cheaper and more efficient to actually be coming in and planting another tree in its place." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 16783.605, "end": 16798.445, "text": "Through the chair, uh I really appreciate that question as well. Um in our tenure capital plan we are accounting for these replacements and that when you've heard us speak in council previously about a thirty-nine thousand backlog, about twenty" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 16798.805, "end": 16826.125, "text": "1,000 of those are small trees like class A, Class B. So those are kind of like failure to start trees, if you will, that need to get removed and replaced. We plan to do that through like our operating work. But the critical piece for us to be able to do that is these high risk removals, like these larger, more expensive removals, need to get converted to capital cost because that frees up our operating budget. Because we've been spending about four million a year" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 16826.525, "end": 16829.105, "text": "on removals, and we have to" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 16829.305, "end": 16864.705, "text": "Distribute our funding on a risk basis. So if you can picture a cup getting filled up and you fill it up with funding, the first marker you're gonna hit for us is gonna be hazard abatement. And then the next marker you're gonna hit is life cycle replacement. And then the third marker you're gonna hit is expansion of the canopy. And we have to balance all these initiatives based on available funding. But yeah, absolutely our operational plans are already removing more of those standing dead trees, and then we're hoping we get support for replacing them in our our four year budget cycle." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 16865.345, "end": 16899.785, "text": "Cool, that's great. Um, I want to complicate that a little bit too, because dead trees are also. I have a dead tree in my backyard that we've had for a number of years, got a beautiful family of nuthatches that have made their home in them. Like snag trees in the wild are a very important part of natural ecosystems. Now I understand on a boulevard having a dead tree that's just single planted on a in a row of trees, it stands out, it's very visible. But do we actually have um like are we required to remove all dead trees? I'm just thinking like." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 16900.025, "end": 16903.205, "text": "I see this really interesting shift" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 16904.465, "end": 16927.465, "text": "in urban forestry where you're moving towards sort of these the microforests and these kinds of things that could potentially house a dead tree, and that's okay, I think, visually, and and we can maybe get the ecological benefits of that side. Or do we just sort of have a policy of dead tree 311 request comes in, get it out of there?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 16928.225, "end": 16936.245, "text": "So great question. So the the dead trees that pose a hazard to public safety absolutely we have to remove. Now" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 16936.585, "end": 16977.805, "text": "In natural areas, however, we leave those intentionally. There's lots of natural area plans, and Mike, please correct me if I miss something here. But Urban Forestry works with our natural area management teams to leave these in place where they're not posing a hazard because absolutely their habitat. And you'll see some work, like if you're familiar along uh Memorial Drive, for those of you that do that commute on the right hand on the south side of the road, you'll see some snags that we've left standing. So urban forestry came in and removed kind of the hazardous sections and did leave some snags there for wildlife along the Bow River. So we do make those assessments for sure. It's just obviously we can't do it everywhere." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 16978.385, "end": 16980.665, "text": "But uh Mike, I don't know if you have anything to add." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 16980.945, "end": 16983.905, "text": "Yeah, maybe through the chair, Ken Sir Atkinson, thanks for the question again." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 16984.365, "end": 17004.165, "text": "I would fully agree, and our natural areas management team is very passionate about recognizing the diverse biodiversity pieces that wood debris can add to their areas. And so in our natural perks, we typically won't remove dead trees unless, as Mr. Atkinson suggested, there is a public safety risk. So if it's adjacent to a park or a pathway or a trail." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 17004.805, "end": 17019.605, "text": "We'll often remove them and then push the woody debris back into the natural area so that it can rot and become that habitat. If the trees are dead and further off the pathways or the trails, we'll typically leave them standing there so that they'll decline over time and provide those benefits." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 17019.765, "end": 17033.945, "text": "Love that. I love the installation you've done in Confederation Park that is using the dead trees and leaving them in place. I think it's uh it's got a great education factor for the public. I think I think that's great. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 17035.125, "end": 17057.165, "text": "last maybe question, kind of jumping back to the idea of new communities. Are we pushing new communities more towards some of these microforests and higher density plantings rather than just sort of the boulevard trees trying to get that mix and and getting them to start off on the right foot rather than just us coming in years later and then having to plant these microforests there later?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 17057.925, "end": 17096.805, "text": "Yeah, I I through the chair. Thank you for the question again. We are working extensively on the city building to balance all the different initiatives and where trees can come into place, whether it be through street design or in the parks or in the private realm. One of the biggest things, and and I guess one of the examples I often give is if we lose one specimen tree, that's you know, unfortunately a tree gospel loss. But if we lose a planting site, whether it be through design or redevelopment, it's gone forever. That will never be green space for stormwater, for habitat, for large trees. So um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 17097.145, "end": 17107.785, "text": "We're taking that approach more so than anything is protecting those spaces and and designing in a way that trees can survive in those locations because at least then there's the opportunity." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 17108.845, "end": 17111.465, "text": "That's great. Thank you. Thanks for the answers. That's great." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 17112.625, "end": 17115.745, "text": "Thank you. Uh Counselor Atkinson, you're up. Or sorry, Jameson, you're up." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 17117.525, "end": 17118.065, "text": "Thank you, Chair." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 17120.505, "end": 17126.045, "text": "Ward 12 does have a low canopy uh compared to the other wards. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 17126.605, "end": 17138.705, "text": "among the lowest uh for canopy. Uh Seton is at one point one one, Rangeview zero point one one, Mahogany two point four four, Copperfield at three point eight zero." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 17139.145, "end": 17139.865, "text": "Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 17140.645, "end": 17141.985, "text": "so Wart um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 17143.965, "end": 17179.005, "text": "I I guess that kind of also is connected to, in my opinion, the microforests. I know Ward 12 does have some microforests, but they are older in from previous years, uh, Cranston, Mackenzie Town, South Foothills. Uh nothing new in this plan. Uh so my question, uh so new communities such as Seaton Rangeview Mahogany, uh with canopy under 3% seem like obvious candidates, but how does the equity work within the city? And you know how how do you plan to roll this out?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 17179.505, "end": 17184.485, "text": "So in the uh through the chair, um thank you for the question. The" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 17185.225, "end": 17239.205, "text": "The communities that you listed are all newer communities, which I think more lead into that time is our biggest lever where the stems are getting put in in the original development and they just need, you know, 15 years. Assuming survivability, and we'll just sort of, you know, check that question for a second, but um over time we expect these communities to increase canopy over time. And in the full report, there's uh a statistical analysis we did where it does show the strongest correlation is like you know, stems per hectare and time to get there. So I think in those communities, we uh just speaking answering that question in another way, we could not physically plant enough to tomorrow to equal the canopy percent. We absolutely need that sliding scale of time to get there. And I think that's probably the biggest indicator in those areas." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 17239.945, "end": 17242.185, "text": "True. Trees, time." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 17242.185, "end": 17242.625, "text": "Yeah." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 17242.625, "end": 17267.505, "text": "It's part of the equation. Uh the next line of questioning is a bit about the federal funding. Um I want to know is it possibly at risk if we don't meet our commitments? Um because uh chair, uh Councillor Shabeau uh mentioned that okay, so the federal government is now cut in half of what maybe their proposed um investment was. So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 17268.065, "end": 17272.145, "text": "are we subject to lose half of the 3.5 million then?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 17273.065, "end": 17273.525, "text": "Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 17274.245, "end": 17279.485, "text": "through the chair. How the agreement was structured from the beginning has not changed. So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 17280.205, "end": 17315.345, "text": "What it means is we are contributing roughly half and the the federal government is matching with that half as we execute on the program. So is the funding at risk? It would be if urban forestry didn't have the capital funding to meet all our requirements to go ahead, in which case, you know, if we can't hit the number of trees we said we were going to plant in a year and spend the amount of money we said we were going to spend, the federal government would it would trigger a review of the agreement or a cancellation of it, potentially, if we had no money whatsoever." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 17318.645, "end": 17336.945, "text": "Outside this particular program, uh more specifically too with maybe maybe some greenfield type construction, more in my word, what other programs exist? Is this something, is this part of a uh that you I I understand like like when a developer or builder does new lot, they're required to put a tree on there." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 17337.685, "end": 17340.845, "text": "Is there other programs like that that complement this one?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 17342.465, "end": 17376.085, "text": "So the report was absolutely coming back through the 2 billion tree lens. The as far as other programs specifically, I wouldn't say they're programs, but they're daily initiatives where we're working on like it specifically in context of your question would be like the city building program and how many trees are required when a site gets developed and what does the soil look like and what is the like the soil volume and green space look like and um how big can the building be and things like that. Um we're we work actively on on those pieces as well to try to" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 17376.505, "end": 17384.545, "text": "create the best possible environment for trees um to go in. So we things we're discussing are things like um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 17384.765, "end": 17403.325, "text": "uh mandating that the first tree that goes in based on your size of your lot is a large canopied tree for the space to make sure um we heard it from one of the presenters today about low-headed small trees maybe not being the right tree for the spot. So there can be this weird um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 17403.745, "end": 17429.805, "text": "Counterintuitive decision making where sometimes when you have a small space, a large tree is the best tree to put in there, assuming the soil volume is there, because the canopies are way up high above your heads and not interfering with infrastructure. So that's some of the thinking we're doing through the policy work. And then you're getting also the cooling effects and all the environmental and social benefits for the people that the future residents in these communities." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 17430.125, "end": 17446.065, "text": "Yeah, you mentioned the soil depth. That was a good conversation we had uh before about the importance and how that wasn't done in the past, but how you how how you guys are changing uh the strategy on that. Is it mostly um city departments or private contractors that are installing these trees?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 17446.965, "end": 17473.805, "text": "Uh these trees specifically for the two billion tree program, it's a blend. So some are contractors, some are done with city crews and contractors. So we're obviously doing the planning, the setup. Some of these trees come in through our nursery, and contractors may pick them up there and then go install them throughout the city for like some of the large caliper trees. And in other cases, it could be our crews installing them internally. So we try to blend that." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 17474.965, "end": 17479.865, "text": "Do you have the the numbers? Do you know uh what the cost per tree is uh to this program?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 17479.985, "end": 17535.445, "text": "Uh through the chair, it's widely variant based on the size of tree. So a large caliper tree could be as high as, like including watering for five years, could be about twelve hundred and sixty-six dollars just to get it to establishment, and then it should be independent in the landscape. The cost of the tree and the install of that is about $800 off the top of my head. Branching out trees are extremely cost effective because we're not supplying the land, we're not supplying the maintenance, we're not supplying the aftercare. They're fully looked after by communities, and those are closer to I think like $50, $60 kind of range per tree, including administrative cost for distributing the trees in the program. And then the seedlings could be a kind of a few dollars per tree, but the number of success I gave you earlier on survivability about 80 plus percent for the large trees." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 17536.045, "end": 17581.105, "text": "Yeah, um is different when we look at seedlings and the expectation is different. So when we plant a microforest site, we could have upwards of 40% death rate in the seedlings installed. But in those situations, we're planting an area, not looking at the specific specimen, and then it runs into that cost-benefit analysis. But we do water those sites and survive. And sometimes, you know, life happens, right? These are living assets. So we we go back in and replant. So those costs are like more like two to twenty dollars a stem, depending on the size that we're putting in. So it's quite a range and it's very size focused. And that's where we have to look at site suitability first to make the program cost effective, because the less rehabilitation of a location we have to do, the cost per stem really goes down." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 17582.885, "end": 17603.005, "text": "That does make sense. I've heard that the and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I've heard that the number one factor for trees being removed in mass numbers is blanket rezoning and development. Is that true? And if it is true, uh would you say that density would be an enemy to tree canopy?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 17604.105, "end": 17607.245, "text": "Through the chair, great question." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 17607.845, "end": 17608.545, "text": "Now," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 17608.885, "end": 17629.385, "text": "I'm more of a scientist by nature, so um the some of the things are true in some of the cases, right? So if you look at um high density redevelopment and we're removing trees, like if we take like a standard uh used to be a 1950s bungalow, lots of trees in the backyard. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 17629.685, "end": 17679.965, "text": "We build in a huge infill of a singular residence. Absolutely. You are losing canopy in relation to density, right? Because you're not building in the density, but you are losing the canopy. But in other situations, you might have a row house. So in those situations, let's say we've got high density development. So the environmental benefits of high density development may in some cases offset the loss of that canopy on the same parcel in the same example. And then we have to look at other opportunities where we can plant trees nearby, whether it be in the roadway, nearby parks, things like that. So it's not a one case fits all, but we do lose a lot of canopy from redevelopment for sure. That is happening, especially on private land where we don't have uh purview, like my department has no purview." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 17680.805, "end": 17681.105, "text": "Hm." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 17681.525, "end": 17686.025, "text": "Okay. So density is the enemy of tree canopy. Okay. Thank you very much for your time." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 17688.225, "end": 17688.685, "text": "Is that all?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 17689.985, "end": 17690.545, "text": "Thanks." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 17690.985, "end": 17692.885, "text": "Councillor Atkinson, you had a follow-up." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 17694.145, "end": 17696.885, "text": "I'll save that piece for debate." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 17698.145, "end": 17703.205, "text": "This this I just want to go to maybe uh page five of your presentation." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 17703.705, "end": 17754.425, "text": "Which has that red line uh and sort of the pieces that are not counting towards pers like tree canopy percentages? This kind of speaks to Councillor Jameson's maybe first question, but like would we know where in that 250 like where that's distributed uh across the city? So that's kind of like the red lines and the plantings or whatever that we see in those future graphs in the presentation. But or would we be able to sort of like understand how those are going to mature out and sort of if if we just start adding that time and multiplying that out where we're really if we didn't plant another tree starting today, just having those mature, what what it would do to sort of the percentages we're seeing across the board?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 17755.185, "end": 17822.645, "text": "Through the chair, that that is an extremely great and complex question. We're talking about population life cycles of different species aging at different rates at different times based on different soil conditions, water, that sort of thing. But we absolutely are having these exact conversations within urban forestry as well to see how we can more accurately model that. We have some rough estimations that we we keep internal that we wouldn't be able to stand up and defend publicly at this point, but we are working towards that. I can tell you though, that in the report, uh Jill's statistical analysis of looking at stems per hectare really is indicative of future canopy growth. So we look at one of the communities that comes to mind often is Redstone in the Northeast. I think they have like some of the highest stems per hectare, which is like huge opportunity for future growth. Now, that's completely dependent upon how this soil was structured and things like that, but it sure is a great indicator, right? Assuming average survivability that they're gonna have a great canopy one day." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 17822.945, "end": 17823.345, "text": "Yeah." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 17824.065, "end": 17837.505, "text": "Do does that build in because that's an estimate, I'm guessing, based on plantings of stems and and w and what does that build in that eighty-two to eighty-three percent survivability or um like is that already accounted for in those?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 17838.145, "end": 17840.225, "text": "Um, those ones below the line." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 17841.105, "end": 17854.485, "text": "Um that is a snapshot in time of our inventory that you're seeing. So it's more like uh what was it like that day that the report was produced, but it's not future anticipating anything on this slide." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 17854.485, "end": 17866.485, "text": "Right. There might still be some die out, but let's say die out last year would be accounted for in where that estimate is. It's not that like only 80% of that number is going to" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 17866.485, "end": 17867.925, "text": "Absolutely. Yeah, no." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 17868.245, "end": 17890.685, "text": "Yes, thank you for the question. 80% of that number we do not expect to be surviving. It's much higher, right? It's just a smaller component of that number. And I I will say too that in um coordinating our resources and prioritizing risk, we are inventoring these smaller trees less frequently. So there's probably some lag here where some of them" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 17891.025, "end": 17910.825, "text": "As indicated on this chart, are probably in the 11 to 20 category that we just haven't been back to inventory yet because we're not touching all these trees for that uh small tree pruning structure as much as we would like in the current state. Um so they don't get inventoried as often." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 17912.445, "end": 17913.945, "text": "mulch?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 17914.905, "end": 17917.825, "text": "Oh, mulch is the through the chair, mulch is the best." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 17918.065, "end": 17919.865, "text": "Perfect. Thank you very much. Yeah." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 17921.285, "end": 17923.885, "text": "Thank you. Now I have a couple of questions for you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 17924.705, "end": 17927.205, "text": "So based on um $2 billion," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 17927.485, "end": 17929.005, "text": "if I use the" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 17929.425, "end": 17932.845, "text": "sort of basic basic arithmetic population per capita" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 17933.185, "end": 17935.145, "text": "compared to the entire province of Canada," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 17935.325, "end": 17938.505, "text": "that should have resulted in us getting about 77" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 17938.825, "end": 17939.765, "text": "million dollars." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 17940.165, "end": 17946.385, "text": "Now that it's been cut essentially in half, that means we'd only be receiving about 38 million. But we we've been" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 17946.685, "end": 17948.985, "text": "Allocated 61 million, is that correct?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 17950.925, "end": 17975.845, "text": "Yeah, the the $2 billion is the $2 billion tree number, not not the $2 billion, I believe. Now our funding has not been affected. It is still the the same as it always was. So the total program is $60 million, which includes the City of Calgary's piece as well. So about roughly half is from the federal government and half has been from uh city of Calgary." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 17956.165, "end": 17956.285, "text": "Okay." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 17975.845, "end": 17976.265, "text": "Ah." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 17977.085, "end": 17980.745, "text": "So we're only receiving about 30 million from the province or from the federal government." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 17981.285, "end": 17981.745, "text": "Correct." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 17982.025, "end": 17990.865, "text": "If I may, Councillor or Chair. Um the the federal piece is all locked up, so there is an agreement in place, and so it won't change." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 17991.525, "end": 17996.545, "text": "From any outcome of the federal government recently, where there is a risk, and it came up recently" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 17996.785, "end": 18004.925, "text": "in our conversation here, is that there was a question of what is the potential risk? And I would say it's our own City of Calgary capital funding is the risk." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 18005.405, "end": 18014.525, "text": "So for us to achieve the targets set out in the 2 billion tree funding and planting those 960,000 trees, we would need council to approve a minimum of $12 million." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18014.525, "end": 18014.745, "text": "Which" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 18014.745, "end": 18017.765, "text": "And that would be our matched funding obligation for the federal agreement." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18017.965, "end": 18019.565, "text": "so in other words, we've already m" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18019.745, "end": 18021.385, "text": "put in some money into it," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18022.105, "end": 18025.885, "text": "which means this would be a top up to to achieve that 50%." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 18026.325, "end": 18030.225, "text": "It's an annual process, so every year we have to provide the matched funding amount." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 18030.645, "end": 18036.185, "text": "And it it crossed over budget cycles. And so because it's a five-year program, it crossed our corporate budget cycle." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 18036.505, "end": 18038.425, "text": "So from 27 to 28" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 18038.625, "end": 18042.205, "text": "and 28 to 29, we don't currently have the capital as it's not been approved yet." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 18042.405, "end": 18044.305, "text": "But we will need a minimum of 12 million" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 18044.605, "end": 18046.485, "text": "to honour the federal match." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18046.485, "end": 18048.645, "text": "This is one we're talking one time funding here, right?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 18048.905, "end": 18049.265, "text": "Correct." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18049.825, "end": 18050.905, "text": "So what about next year?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 18051.505, "end": 18052.505, "text": "Next year we'll need" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 18052.925, "end": 18057.585, "text": "the same end. So it's roughly six million per year to meet the match funding requirement of the federal" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 18058.445, "end": 18058.725, "text": "agreement." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18058.725, "end": 18061.565, "text": "Our matching contribution will total about 30 million" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 18061.945, "end": 18062.265, "text": "Correct." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18062.845, "end": 18064.025, "text": "for a total of 60." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18065.005, "end": 18068.345, "text": "Okay. Then this is the first tranche, second tranche, where are we at?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 18068.345, "end": 18070.445, "text": "This would be the fourth tranche out of six." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18070.445, "end": 18071.725, "text": "So essentially another" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18073.085, "end": 18073.505, "text": "total" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 18074.105, "end": 18076.885, "text": "Do you think that's a good thing? Another 12 million is required from the capital" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18077.165, "end": 18077.605, "text": "beyond" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18077.785, "end": 18078.005, "text": "today." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 18078.005, "end": 18079.025, "text": "beyond today." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 18079.605, "end": 18081.305, "text": "27-28, about six million yet." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18081.305, "end": 18085.765, "text": "I just wanted to make sure that we have a good clear line of sight with regards to the" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18086.245, "end": 18093.905, "text": "capital budget requirements, not the operating budget requirements. Is there any operational implications to these capital expenditures beyond what's in the current budget?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 18094.525, "end": 18100.545, "text": "There is a small capital component that we tie just to the operating cost of the capital, and that's to maintain those trees year over year." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 18101.285, "end": 18105.465, "text": "And that would be a factor, and I'll let Mr. Atkinson speak to the dollar amount per tree." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 18105.905, "end": 18112.625, "text": "So the number we use is $34, $34.14 roughly per tree per year." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 18113.185, "end": 18128.185, "text": "But that's not required on all the microforest sites, to be clear. It's just like the large trees. But that just gives you a bit of an indicator. So for a microforest site, it's probably $34 per site per year, which might contain like" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 18128.965, "end": 18131.205, "text": "you know hundreds or a thousand trees." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18131.905, "end": 18134.305, "text": "Okay. So which leads me to the next question." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18134.605, "end": 18138.385, "text": "In regards to some the other colleagues have raised the issue around" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18138.625, "end": 18139.305, "text": "um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18140.805, "end": 18144.825, "text": "Trees everywhere isn't necessarily in the best interest of the city as a whole." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18145.245, "end": 18148.805, "text": "And I've already heard of a couple of examples in the communities where" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18149.205, "end": 18153.125, "text": "some communities felt like they weren't consulted enough in advance," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18153.565, "end": 18156.105, "text": "uh, and trees were placed in in an area where" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18156.525, "end": 18159.885, "text": "uh they had viewed that as an unstructured" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18160.205, "end": 18163.745, "text": "sort of open space. And now that trees are there," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18163.985, "end": 18166.665, "text": "they had lost that unstructured green space." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18166.945, "end": 18169.045, "text": "So I I heard you mention talking to reds." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18169.305, "end": 18173.305, "text": "Uh is Joint Use Coordinated Committee associated with any of those discussions?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18173.745, "end": 18174.345, "text": "And" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18174.505, "end": 18178.605, "text": "are the community associations involved in those discussions on those tree placements? Because" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18179.105, "end": 18181.225, "text": "again, I I I wouldn't want to have to" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18181.545, "end": 18184.085, "text": "go through this process again talking to my community saying" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18184.805, "end": 18190.425, "text": "I I don't know what the cons consultation process was and why it is that you guys were not consulted." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 18193.125, "end": 18200.885, "text": "I think we can always do better, but we do our best to communicate with each of the communities. But I think it's um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 18201.205, "end": 18236.865, "text": "A great point that we can continue to enhance that collaboration in a structured way. And I'll I'll kind of reference our tree removal process. So for a tree removal, we post it for two weeks before we we remove a tree, unless it's an imminent hazard, to give the community time to provide their voice. With tree planting, those planting plants are not necessarily as available and visible to the public. Therefore, you can run into situations like that, especially when we're talking about planting a hundred and excuse me, eighty thousand trees across the city. There's some instances where you know it's it's difficult to appease everybody." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18236.985, "end": 18247.725, "text": "And and I appreciate what you just said about the process to for tree removal and how robust that is. I I would argue that the the tree planting should be equally, or if not greater." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18248.025, "end": 18250.045, "text": "uh engagement required to make sure that" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18250.445, "end": 18251.185, "text": "that it" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18251.365, "end": 18251.865, "text": "doesn't" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18252.165, "end": 18254.705, "text": "you don't have unintended consequences because at the end of the day" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18255.165, "end": 18255.825, "text": "removal" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18256.025, "end": 18258.325, "text": "is going to be very challenging after the fact" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18258.525, "end": 18260.545, "text": "so once it's there it's there" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18261.105, "end": 18261.445, "text": "right" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18261.845, "end": 18263.185, "text": "that's part of the challenge" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18263.485, "end": 18265.405, "text": "with uh what I see um anyways I" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18265.765, "end": 18267.985, "text": "I don't think it's a very significant ask um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18268.605, "end": 18272.105, "text": "from a grand scheme of things in regards to the capital requirement it's" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18272.405, "end": 18275.145, "text": "it's one time funding so it's not necessarily a budgetary" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18275.545, "end": 18277.145, "text": "uh implications. So I" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18277.565, "end": 18281.085, "text": "I'm sure that our administration and finance are can be very creative in" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18281.365, "end": 18284.265, "text": "finding sources of funds that won't impact our taxes. So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18284.765, "end": 18285.805, "text": "appreciate the ask." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18286.145, "end": 18287.585, "text": "I wish it would have been more overt." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18287.965, "end": 18295.645, "text": "Right now it's kind of buried into attachment four on page six. So it's not, you know, front and center. It's 12 million dollars." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18296.165, "end": 18297.625, "text": "It's not even in the recommendations." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18298.305, "end": 18299.005, "text": "So again," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18299.985, "end": 18301.205, "text": "uh unless I'm missing something." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 18301.745, "end": 18306.685, "text": "Yeah, if if I may counselor, it is called out on a specific slide. I believe it's slide four or five," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 18307.285, "end": 18314.005, "text": "but uh we're not approving anything today. So we will bring that forward to budget deliberations and make it very clear there at the time what the amounts are." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18314.225, "end": 18326.665, "text": "But again, I this is something that I argue all the time. You know, it's um incremental budgeting. It it's it's something that gets added to the list, and it has to be at least quantified within our own brains that you know this is coming." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18327.125, "end": 18329.025, "text": "And so it's always nice to see that number." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 18329.805, "end": 18335.605, "text": "Uh agreed and uh unrelated if I may through the chair, Councillor Kelly had a question previously on attachment two" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 18336.065, "end": 18339.385, "text": "and I just wanted to acknowledge and thank him for the opportunity to update that." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 18339.665, "end": 18342.125, "text": "We will get an updated attachment two back to council." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 18342.485, "end": 18347.625, "text": "It does look like there's some sorting errors in there, so we'd be happy to take that back to council and ensure that that's accurate for everyone." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18347.885, "end": 18352.925, "text": "Perfect, thanks. Um, I have no further questions. I'll go back to see if there's anyone else in the queue." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18353.405, "end": 18357.185, "text": "Not seeing anyone. Uh Councillor Atkinson, you want to move this recommendation?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 18358.785, "end": 18363.405, "text": "Yeah, happy to move. Uh trees are great. It's it's a" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 18363.865, "end": 18382.465, "text": "Unlike so many things, it's a real investment in the future in a real tangible way that uh it's uh it's really sowing the seeds for for uh folks down the road and I think that that it's uh it's great to sort of see um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 18383.325, "end": 18451.885, "text": "The changes that are being made, sort of this lens of equity that uh the notice of motion from Councillor Wines and Councillor Dollywall and how that's sort of playing out. You can see it in sort of some of the numbers, uh, and I do appreciate while the uh attachment two is throwing everyone off. I hope everyone was digging in on attachment three, which has all kinds of historical data around plantings and sort of the course corrections that have been taken over the last couple of years. Um I also really want to commend the department. I think that the changes that have been made, uh, our understanding of, you know, different species of trees, the problems that we're having with poplars and sidewalks, which was the last meeting we were sitting in here for. These this growing understanding of trees in the urban landscape is one that I think that uh the department has been doing a good job to understand, diversify, change our approach, and and help to educate the public and bring the public along with us uh in that change through things like the branching out program. So uh I understand, I totally get it. Uh if anything, I would say be brave in your ask. Everyone loves trees." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 18452.645, "end": 18476.885, "text": "It's okay to ask for money to plant some trees. I actually I think uh Councillor Chabot's point around sort of like not sort of burying it. We should we should be okay to sort of say planting trees cost money, this is what it's gonna cost, this is what we're getting from the federal government as a as a matching sort of piece. It's nothing to be shy about. Uh planting trees cost money, and we should absolutely be making that investment. So I'll open with that." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18477.085, "end": 18484.865, "text": "Thanks. And I'm happy to support it. Uh, anytime we can plant roots and towards branching out into improving our tree canopy." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18486.145, "end": 18486.945, "text": "A little bit of fun there." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18487.785, "end": 18492.705, "text": "I'm I'm happy to support it. Uh so no, I think it's a great investment into our community ultimately." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18492.905, "end": 18498.585, "text": "Um, you know, the quality of life that it provides is is not something that's necessarily clearly tangible. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18498.885, "end": 18501.625, "text": "and you know, as far as you know even mental health," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18501.985, "end": 18506.345, "text": "um being able to sit under a tree, read a book in the summer, it's in that open air." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18506.765, "end": 18510.545, "text": "Um there's a lot of great benefits to to having trees in our communities. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18511.105, "end": 18514.085, "text": "again, as long as they're put in the appropriate location. So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18514.645, "end": 18519.465, "text": "Uh happy to support the recommendations and uh thanks uh administration for bringing forward this report." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18520.385, "end": 18524.425, "text": "Uh so on that uh not seeing any further debates, uh over to you to close." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 18525.745, "end": 18551.285, "text": "I will just say uh read up on your uh your R1, R2, RCG tree requirements if you want to start digging in on uh the number of trees per site. Uh RCG has a much higher tree requirement. Uh so actually with density comes more trees, even more trees than they're there. So, you know, just uh I'll throw that out there. Uh and uh I'll close with that. Closed." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18552.965, "end": 18555.745, "text": "You're closed. Sorry, uh to describe the vote." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18570.685, "end": 18571.185, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 18574.425, "end": 18575.745, "text": "Counselor Clark, your vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18575.745, "end": 18576.145, "text": "Yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 18577.805, "end": 18579.325, "text": "Counselor Dollywall, your vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 18580.825, "end": 18581.485, "text": "Absent." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 18582.005, "end": 18583.585, "text": "Councilor Johnston, your vote please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 18586.525, "end": 18587.325, "text": "Councilor Johnston?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 18588.705, "end": 18589.165, "text": "Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 18589.345, "end": 18589.905, "text": "absent." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 18590.765, "end": 18592.105, "text": "Counselor Kelly, your vote please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 18593.145, "end": 18593.525, "text": "Yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18595.405, "end": 18597.745, "text": "Is that a yes? Did I hear Councillor Kelly's vote? Yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 18598.685, "end": 18599.545, "text": "That's correct, yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 18599.785, "end": 18600.305, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 18600.845, "end": 18601.945, "text": "Chair Chabot Volts are in." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18603.025, "end": 18603.385, "text": "Uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18603.585, "end": 18604.745, "text": "please display the results." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18608.985, "end": 18613.065, "text": "That motion is carried eleven to zero, unanimous. This is a unanimous day, I think." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18613.565, "end": 18615.205, "text": "Thank you. Great job, committee. Uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18615.985, "end": 18620.105, "text": "if you notice there's a briefing note, uh, I'd encourage everyone to have a chance to review it." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18620.365, "end": 18621.685, "text": "So you at least have an idea and" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18622.405, "end": 18623.025, "text": "on uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18624.145, "end": 18627.205, "text": "how some of our zoning has impacted our housing supply." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 18628.105, "end": 18635.985, "text": "Uh anyways if I can have a motion to uh adjourn, moved by counselor ward. On that we agreed. Any opposed? Hearing none, that's carried. Thank you, everyone. Great day." } ], "num_speakers": 26 }