{ "file": "/tmp/tmp_04jxv_3/17774389-345e-49a9-b8c9-31705cbf154a.mkv", "segments": [ { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 0.005, "end": 3.925, "text": "And welcome to 2026, February 24th regular meeting of City Council." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 4.425, "end": 7.045, "text": "Um, thank you, Mayor. On the roll, Councillor Chabot," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_31", "start": 9.225, "end": 9.565, "text": "Present." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 10.585, "end": 11.585, "text": "Councillor Clark," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_31", "start": 11.585, "end": 11.945, "text": "Present." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 12.505, "end": 13.605, "text": "Councillor Dolly Wall," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 16.185, "end": 17.565, "text": "Councillor Dolly Wall on the roll," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 18.445, "end": 19.365, "text": "Councillor Jameson," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 19.665, "end": 20.005, "text": "Present." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 20.285, "end": 21.305, "text": "Councillor Johnston," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 22.045, "end": 22.185, "text": "Here." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 22.565, "end": 23.385, "text": "Counselor Kelly," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 24.065, "end": 24.305, "text": "Here." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 24.525, "end": 25.365, "text": "Councillor McLean," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 25.825, "end": 26.125, "text": "Here." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 26.365, "end": 27.745, "text": "Counselor Pantozopoulos," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 27.845, "end": 28.045, "text": "Here." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 28.425, "end": 29.205, "text": "Councillor Schmidt," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 29.865, "end": 30.985, "text": "Counselor Tyres," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 33.485, "end": 34.425, "text": "Councilor Tyres," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 34.905, "end": 35.785, "text": "Councillor Ward," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 36.065, "end": 36.385, "text": "Here." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 36.485, "end": 38.985, "text": "Counselor Wyness, Counselor Ewell," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 39.025, "end": 39.365, "text": "Here." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 39.505, "end": 40.645, "text": "Counselor Atkinson," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 40.705, "end": 40.985, "text": "Here." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 41.505, "end": 42.565, "text": "and Mayor Farkas." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 42.805, "end": 43.325, "text": "I'm here." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 43.385, "end": 43.965, "text": "Thank you, Mayor." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 44.865, "end": 68.645, "text": "Oki, Ambawastish, Danitada, Tanshe. Indigenous peoples have their own names for this area that have been in use long before settlers named this place Calgary. In the Blackfoot language, it is called Mokinstis. The Eskinakogoda, Wakastabi First Nations, refer to this place as Wachispa Oyude, and the people of the Satina Nation call it Gutstas. The Metis call the Calgary area Otasquani." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 69.225, "end": 75.585, "text": "We appreciate and acknowledge that we are gathered on the ancestral and traditional territory of the Blackfoot Nations of the Sixika," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 76.005, "end": 86.965, "text": "Picani and Kainai First Nations, the Yhkhan Nakota Wakstabi First Nations, comprised of the Chinniki, Bearspaw, and Goodstone First Nations, and the Sotina First Nation." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 87.205, "end": 103.185, "text": "The city of Calgary is also homeland to the historic Northwest Metis and to the Otipamus WAC Metis Government, Metis Nation Battle River Territory, Nose Hill, Metis District 5, and Elbo Metis District 6. We acknowledge and give gratitude to the many First Nations, Metis and Inuit." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 103.385, "end": 105.605, "text": "Who live here and call Calgary home." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 116.525, "end": 120.125, "text": "Council, unfortunately, we begin today's meeting with some sad news." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 120.345, "end": 126.525, "text": "We learned recently of the passing of Barbara Bobby Sparrow, who passed away on February 19th at the age of 90." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 126.985, "end": 131.905, "text": "She was a trailblazer, a dedicated public servant, and a pillar of our community." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 132.205, "end": 136.805, "text": "Guided by compassion and service, Bobby began her career as a nurse in Toronto." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 137.185, "end": 152.325, "text": "She moved to Calgary in 1956, and her leadership extended well beyond healthcare. She played pivotal roles with the Junior League of Calgary, and, as we're about to hear from, the United Way, the University of Calgary, and the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Alberta." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 152.865, "end": 156.365, "text": "When she entered public office, she continued to break new ground." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 156.825, "end": 168.945, "text": "First elected in 1984 to represent Calgary South, she later served Calgary Southwest and held the role of parliamentary secretary to the Minister of National Health and Welfare from 1991 to 1993." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 169.465, "end": 185.145, "text": "In 1993, she was appointed Minister of Energy, Mines, and Resources, and Minister of Forestry in Prime Minister Kim Campbell's cabinet. Known as a force to be reckoned with, Bobby led with determination, integrity, and courage." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 185.565, "end": 195.425, "text": "She was also a pioneer for women in leadership. At a time when women faced barriers, including at the Calgary's, including at Calgary's Ranchment Club, she refused to be sidelined." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 195.725, "end": 202.625, "text": "She opened doors for women in leadership, challenged barriers, and never accepted being told she did not belong." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 203.045, "end": 210.305, "text": "Bobby was more than a politician. She was a mentor, a community champion, and a steadfast example of service and integrity." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 210.825, "end": 215.065, "text": "Above all, she believed deeply in giving back and serving others with purpose." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 215.405, "end": 220.305, "text": "Her legacy lives on in the institution she strengthened and the people she inspired." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 220.785, "end": 221.645, "text": "Bobby Sparrow," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 221.925, "end": 225.005, "text": "thank you for your service, your leadership, and your heart." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 225.285, "end": 229.685, "text": "Our city and our province and our country are richer because of you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 232.885, "end": 237.465, "text": "We'll now move on to Councilor Schmidt, who has another opening remark to share with uh Council and the Public." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 237.765, "end": 299.005, "text": "Uh yes, thank you. Uh, I'd like to take a few moments today to recognize the passing of Justice Brian Stevenson, who at 50 years was the longest serving judge in Canadian history. And he served the entirety of that 50 years here in Calgary in the Provincial Court of Alberta, now known as the Alberta Court of Justice. Believe it or not, he was appointed in 1974 by Premier Laheed. And uh Justice Stevenson once joked to me that he was appointed because he was one of the biggest liberal organizers in Alberta, and that Peter Lahey just needed him to get him off of the competition for future elections. Uh that, though, comment is a symbol of the service that Justice Stevenson gave to the province of Alberta and to Canada. The provincial court is a place where you're in the trenches of long docket days, trials, and sentencing hearings. The people that he mentored." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 299.245, "end": 318.845, "text": "Were my mentors in as a criminal lawyer before coming here to counsel. I had the privilege to serve many long days with him in Docket Courts where he would see hundreds of people who were not there for fun reasons, but he served those people with integrity, compassion, and kindness." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 319.245, "end": 327.725, "text": "I was also truly privileged to learn from him directly when I had the opportunity to clerk at the Alberta Court of Justice as an articling student." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 328.645, "end": 404.785, "text": "A symbol of his service that I want to talk about briefly is something that we're all very familiar with now, which is shopping on Sundays. In 1982, Justice Stevenson was the trial justice for a case called Big M Drug Mart, which was right here in Calgary. It was the first time as Canadians we had ever come up against the Charter Provision, Section 2, which gives us all religious freedom and freedom from religion. And the Lord's Day Act in Canada outlawed the ability for business owners to open on Sundays. He acquitted the owner, which means that he decided that the owner had the right in Canada to serve people on Sundays. And when I was talking to him at when I was serving at the courts, he told me a story about his mother, who was a devout Christian. As he was deciding how he would find on the case, his mother told him that, and I'm paraphrasing a little bit here, that she would be very angry with him if he found against the Lord that she worshipped. But he persevered through that." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 405.465, "end": 439.385, "text": "This was his dedication to the service of Canada, upholding a right that Canadians had agreed we should all have. So despite the frustration of his mother, he found that Canadians could shop on Sundays and gave us all the first example of our ability to live our lives how we wish as Canadians. And his decision was ultimately upheld by the Supreme Court. And that case is one of the first cases every law student in Canada reads when they're in their first day of constitutional class. So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 439.845, "end": 468.305, "text": "This is an example of 50 years of public service serving with selflessness and focusing on what it means to be a Canadian and to serve Canadians. And I think that's an example that we can all learn from. So to recognize that at 86 years old, and he he sat on the bench until he was 86. So that's I think an example us around the horseshoe can all learn from, and everybody here can learn from as well. So thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 472.025, "end": 474.445, "text": "Did I hear encouragement for Councilor Chabot?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 476.765, "end": 479.205, "text": "Stop giving me a hard time about shopping on Sundays." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 480.325, "end": 488.925, "text": "Thank you, uh Councilor Schmidt, for that uh amazing recognition of a community leader. Uh over to uh Councilor Tyrus to continue our opening remarks." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_04", "start": 489.785, "end": 564.085, "text": "Tomorrow, Wednesday, February 25th, schools and communities across Canada will observe Pink Shirt Day. The movement began in Nova Scotia in 2007, inspired by two students who wore pink to support a peer who is being bullied. That act of kindness became the inspiration for Pink Shirt Day, also known as Anti-Bullying Day. Since then, Pink Shirt Day has been widely recognized by schools, municipalities, and organizations nationwide, including school boards in Alberta. Bullying is a form of aggression displayed as behaviors towards one person which may make them feel afraid, alone, or uncomfortable. Victims of bullying experience negative health effects, high levels of stress, decreased general well-being, and poor school and work performance. Each of us can take a stand against bullying in our workplaces and communities in many ways. Educate yourself about issues related to bullying, harassment, and discrimination. Consider your own actions and how they affect others. Do not partake in bullying, and if you witness it, speak up. And last but not least, sprinkle kindness, which is the 2026 theme for this year's event. Take a stand against bullying and wear pink tomorrow. Yeah." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 565.805, "end": 572.245, "text": "Thank you so much, Councilor Tyrus. And we do have a council meeting tomorrow. So that's a good opportunity to show us your best pink, everyone." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 573.405, "end": 587.285, "text": "It is uh my great privilege on behalf of uh Calgary City Council to begin our first recognition. It's my distinct pleasure to recognize our general manager Chris Arthur's upcoming retirement after more than 30" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 587.625, "end": 589.285, "text": "distinguished years of service" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 589.565, "end": 592.405, "text": "as a city employee and a member of the executive leadership team." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 592.885, "end": 597.765, "text": "Chris, you began your career as a successful candidate to the city's summer student program." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 598.025, "end": 605.105, "text": "And I remember myself working as a rookie city counselor. I remember one of the motions that uh we initially collaborated on with uh Jeff Fielding was." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 605.325, "end": 607.645, "text": "Restoring the City of Calgary's summer student program." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 608.105, "end": 611.345, "text": "You went on to work with downtown planning while in the Masters" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 611.545, "end": 614.605, "text": "of Environmental Design degree program at the University of Calgary." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 615.105, "end": 641.305, "text": "Counsel, Chris, I think you'll all agree with me that Chris approaches issues with an eagerness to connect dots, understand context, and find solutions. And this work style has enabled Chris to occupy a range of roles over her time as an employee and provided Chris opportunities to help shape our organization and community in countless ways. And I wanted to take this moment to provide a few of her City of Calgary employee highlights." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 641.725, "end": 644.565, "text": "Chris was one of the first employees in planning" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 644.725, "end": 652.545, "text": "to build a relationship with the Calgary Police Service, introducing crime prevention through environmental design into planning as a design tool." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 653.025, "end": 656.525, "text": "She pioneered safety and planning as co benefits to one another," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 656.685, "end": 662.145, "text": "ultimately helping Calgary be identified as a safe city by the World Health Organization." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 662.525, "end": 671.765, "text": "Chris was also a leader in developing the structure, operational procedures, membership, and service delivery framework for the Calgary Emergency Management Agency." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 672.025, "end": 685.145, "text": "A service that remains critical to emergency response planning and coordination today. And Council, I think you'll agree with me in assessing that many of the foundational work that Chris put in place, we were the beneficiaries of" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 685.485, "end": 688.445, "text": "as of December 30th, over the holiday." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 688.845, "end": 692.625, "text": "In 2011, she served as the Emergency Operations Center Manager" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 692.865, "end": 694.565, "text": "during the Slave Lake Wildfire." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 694.905, "end": 700.405, "text": "In 2013, Chris was appointed as the Director of Recovery Operations for the Calgary Flood," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 700.785, "end": 703.165, "text": "helping our community regain its functionality" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 703.385, "end": 710.465, "text": "and our organization recover over $100 million in disaster recovery, grant, and insurance funding." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 710.985, "end": 719.045, "text": "Chris has developed response and recovery strategies for fire, flood, pandemic, and severe weather events in Calgary and Alberta." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 719.245, "end": 724.105, "text": "And has acted as an expert resource for cities across the world in their time of need." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 724.545, "end": 726.645, "text": "Chris holds resilience as a value." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 726.885, "end": 733.105, "text": "And in 2017, she and a strong visionary team designed and delivered the Resilient Calgary Strategy," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 733.465, "end": 736.765, "text": "helping shape council investment and resilience for coming years" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 736.965, "end": 739.965, "text": "and putting Calgary on the global resilience map." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 740.385, "end": 743.845, "text": "In recent years, as general manager and a member of the ELT," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 744.225, "end": 747.125, "text": "Chris has fully enjoyed shaping and envisioning the people." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 747.285, "end": 755.925, "text": "Innovation and Collaboration Services Department with her team of leaders to be a strong team of strategic partners and service enablers." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 756.365, "end": 759.205, "text": "She advocates unwaveringly" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 759.445, "end": 766.465, "text": "for the backbone services of our organization that are tied through an invisible string to every frontline activity." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 767.065, "end": 775.885, "text": "Those who have worked with Chris know that she is a genuine people person who leads with heart and creates spaces where others feel welcomed, valued, and heard." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 776.245, "end": 779.265, "text": "She actively and intentionally fosters a sense of belonging" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 779.425, "end": 783.485, "text": "by encouraging openness to diverse perspectives and thoughtful dialogue." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 783.985, "end": 788.205, "text": "The people we work with and the community we work with are her priority." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 788.665, "end": 796.385, "text": "For Chris, nothing can be achieved without a team that is resilient and able to function in moments of shock and ongoing stress." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 796.905, "end": 799.285, "text": "We are at our best when we work collaboratively," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 799.565, "end": 805.645, "text": "support each other's success, and learn together from opportunities to lean in when things do not go to plan." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 806.065, "end": 808.745, "text": "Our resilience is what allows us to continue" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 808.985, "end": 809.565, "text": "onward," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 809.965, "end": 811.765, "text": "right in step with our city motto." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 812.165, "end": 816.285, "text": "Chris will enjoy her last day of work at the city on March 13th of this year." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 816.705, "end": 822.065, "text": "Please join me in a moment of gratitude and recognition for Chris's service to Calgary and Calgaryans." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 843.345, "end": 853.345, "text": "And Chris, I was hoping you would come up for a quick photo sitting in the mayor's chair. Council, if you can come very tight. Let's get a uh group photo with uh Chris Mark in this occasion." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_36", "start": 876.645, "end": 877.525, "text": "I've never said." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_36", "start": 880.785, "end": 883.285, "text": "Come on, Andre." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 883.565, "end": 884.745, "text": "I miss you at my park." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_36", "start": 884.925, "end": 886.865, "text": "Oh yeah." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 886.925, "end": 889.185, "text": "Thumbs up. Sorry if I" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 889.185, "end": 890.045, "text": "If I hit you correct." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 890.045, "end": 893.845, "text": "the mice on." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 895.005, "end": 895.525, "text": "Okay, are we good?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "start": 895.765, "end": 896.305, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "start": 897.165, "end": 898.905, "text": "Oh wait." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 904.645, "end": 905.585, "text": "Thank you so much." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "start": 905.585, "end": 905.965, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 905.785, "end": 906.585, "text": "Thanks, Chris." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_00", "start": 906.585, "end": 907.205, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 908.385, "end": 917.025, "text": "Alright, uh Deputy Mayor Pentasopoulos, if you wouldn't mind uh jumping in the chair next, I'm going to approach the podium and uh introduce our next item here." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 919.705, "end": 920.685, "text": "Yep, okay, I'm with you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 921.105, "end": 921.925, "text": "I'm gonna speaking of" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 922.385, "end": 923.065, "text": "civil surveillance." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_24", "start": 935.485, "end": 935.905, "text": "Sir sir." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_24", "start": 936.345, "end": 936.665, "text": "You ready?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 945.465, "end": 1020.805, "text": "And counsel for our final recognition for the day. I am so pleased to be a part of a very special recognition. In a few moments, we are going to hear from Chief Administrative Officer David Duckworth, who will wrap up the 2025 City of Calgary Employee United Way campaign. We also have a very special guest with us today. Please join me in welcoming Kathleen McPherson, Chief Development Officer of the United Way of Calgary and Area, who is here to celebrate the remarkable fundraising effort by our City of Calgary staff. We know 2025 was another challenging year for many Calgaryans. We are in the midst of an affordability crisis that has 75% of Calgarians worried about affording necessities like housing and like food. Nearly half of Calgarians are $200 away from not meeting financial obligations. All contributions from our annual workplace campaign stay in our local community and are invested in the United Way's Community Impact Fund to support and advance work in the areas of mental health, socioeconomic well being, social inclusion, and healthy relationships. At this time, I'd like to call up our chief administrative officer and the campaign's executive sponsor, David Duckworth, to tell us more about this year's achievements. Come on up, David." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 1022.045, "end": 1022.705, "text": "Don't go anywhere." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 1023.545, "end": 1040.005, "text": "Thank you, Mayor Farkas. And good morning, Council. And good morning, our United Way campaign folks. Um, this is always a special time of year. And it just seems like we just did this not that long ago, but we do this once a year. And over the last 47 years." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 1040.265, "end": 1080.305, "text": "The City of Calgary employees have given back nearly $14 million to the local community through our United Way partnership. It's an important part of our culture here at the city, bringing employees together through connection, philanthropy, and a shared commitment to helping Calgarians. And it also directly supports our corporate vision, which is to create a workplace where employees thrive, courageous ideas come to life, and public service opens possibilities. And I am so thrilled that to share with you that in 2025, City of Calgary employees collectively raised $315,529." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 1080.305, "end": 1080.665, "text": "Woo!" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 1087.965, "end": 1114.225, "text": "But that's not the only good news. We also saw a 15% increase in employee participation over the last year with over 6,000 city employees taking part. Employees participated in a wide range of fundraising activities, including bake sales, an IKEA furniture build, pulling a 10 ton city bus. And my personal favorite, of course, the duck race." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 1116.065, "end": 1132.925, "text": "I'm incredibly pleased at how uh employees across the organization have gone above and beyond their daily work to create meaningful change to support Calgarians in need. And I'll now ask clerks to play a short video we have that highlights the campaign as well as some of the reasons that our employees get involved." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_33", "start": 1142.145, "end": 1160.105, "text": "One of the things that's most special about it is that we get to work with different parts of our corporation. And so when normally you wouldn't get to meet other people in different business units, one of the unique things about this is that we get to get together every once in a while with all the different business units." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_33", "start": 1160.425, "end": 1164.165, "text": "There's connections there that you might have not been able to do before." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_12", "start": 1164.245, "end": 1172.045, "text": "You get to meet different people, you get to help out with events. Um and yeah, it's uh it's an awesome way, especially if you're newer, it's an awesome way to meet people." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 1172.345, "end": 1175.585, "text": "Favorite part I would say was putting on our mini golf tournament." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_07", "start": 1176.105, "end": 1185.685, "text": "Uh it was a lot of work, uh but the event was a lot of fun. We raised a lot of money. People came out, had a good time. We had a pizza sale, bake sale. Uh yeah, it was good." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_34", "start": 1185.825, "end": 1197.125, "text": "The furniture build is always one of my favorites. I think just being able to learn more about the Internet Way, like I've been with the city for five years, but I didn't really know a whole lot about what the things that they did and all it entailed." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_34", "start": 1197.505, "end": 1202.585, "text": "I also really enjoyed selling samosas. So I just wanted to be connected with other people in the organization." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_14", "start": 1202.925, "end": 1235.405, "text": "It's been such a rewarding experience for me personally to also connect with our folks, our volunteers, and just this spirit of volunteerism in the city of Calgary has been so truly awesome to watch and see it grow. There's always networking opportunities that people have told me are great for them to understand the city, especially if you're new. It helps us build a better culture organizationally to move our culture forward, make our workplace feel human and connected. So great sense of belonging." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 1240.465, "end": 1255.525, "text": "Awesome. So I would now like to invite Aaron Cervantes, Altamarina, and Mike Malecki to join me and the mayor to present this check, our check to Kathleen McPherson, Chief Development Officer of the United Way Calgary and Area. And then, of course, we'll have our group photo." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 1256.805, "end": 1257.205, "text": "Mike?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_24", "start": 1257.205, "end": 1257.705, "text": "Thank you, sir." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 1258.005, "end": 1258.365, "text": "Aaron?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_24", "start": 1258.385, "end": 1260.285, "text": "Well then congrats on you sooner. Great job." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_24", "start": 1262.805, "end": 1265.445, "text": "Congratulations. Nice to see you. Thank you so much." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 1265.445, "end": 1265.985, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 1266.185, "end": 1267.705, "text": "Where's that little lovely check?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 1269.165, "end": 1271.805, "text": "Where's that photo going? Over there? Which way do you want us?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_13", "start": 1273.525, "end": 1277.385, "text": "Come on." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 1383.845, "end": 1384.745, "text": "Okay, great." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 1389.605, "end": 1580.845, "text": "Well, good morning, uh Mayor Farkas and members of council. It's truly an honor to be here today. What a great photo, and I love seeing the sea of red. So, as was said, my name's Kathleen McPherson. I'm the Chief Development Officer with United Way of Calgary Area. And from my 25 plus years working in the charitable sector, I know that strong cities are built not through policy, but through partnership. And for more than 47 years, the City of Calgary and United Way of Calgaryan Area have shared a common purpose: strengthening our city and ensuring everyone can belong and thrive. What makes our partnership powerful is really not the longevity, but it's how we intentionally work together. So thanks to the generosity of Calgarians, the support of nearly 17,000 volunteers, United Way supported 173 agencies last year in the city and helped about 240,000 people access supports. At our best, we really combine the city's leadership, scale, and reach with United Way's deep community relationships, local data, convening power, and when those strengths really align, we see real and lasting impact. Beyond the annual campaign that we partner on every year, the City of Calgary and United Way partner in so many other ways. Together, we've really helped steward the Enough for All, Calgary's poverty reduction strategy, working across sectors to address root causes and improve access to essentials like housing, transportation, and food security. We've partnered on initiatives like the community hubs, creating welcoming neighborhood spaces where people can access supports close to home, reduce isolation, and build belonging. Not just help, but dignity and hope. And through Action Table Calgary, we bring together members, service providers, and system leaders, together to co-design solutions grounded in lived experience and evidence. Across all of this work, the common thread is really collaboration. This doesn't happen in isolation. It happens because we listen to community, share responsibility, and act together. The challenges facing our city, as you know, are very complex. Affordability pressures continue. Social needs are evolving. But what really gives me confidence in this is that when municipal leadership, community organizations, workplace, and residents really align together around shared purpose, Calgary then does move forward. I also wanted to acknowledge that all of the city of Calgary employees, you show up every day to serve this city, and your participation in the United Way campaign really helps to build a stronger Calgary. So before I close, my sincere thanks to our United Way campaign co-chairs, uh Aaron Cervantes, Altamirano, and Mike Milecchi, the executive sponsor David Duckworth, our campaign coordinator, Natalie McKinnis, and the City of Calgary campaign cabinet. There were tons of names up there on the screen, so thank you to all of them. So please join me uh in thanking them for their uh hard work and participation. Thank you for the opportunity." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_01", "start": 1588.845, "end": 1594.145, "text": "Together we're really making a difference where everyone can thrive in our great city of Calgary. Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 1596.605, "end": 1607.885, "text": "Thank you so much to you, David, uh to Mike, Aaron, Natalie, everybody involved in uh this tremendous success. I'm very much looking forward to seeing what we're able to achieve together for next year. So again, thank you for being with us this morning." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 1641.445, "end": 1656.025, "text": "All right, we are on to question period. We have uh Councilor McLean, myself, and Councilor Schmidt. A few others were in the queue, but I'll remind you we have an opportunity tomorrow as part of strategic meeting of council to uh to ask those questions. So over to uh Councilor McClain first." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 1656.345, "end": 1659.425, "text": "Thank you, Mayor. Uh last week, uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 1659.745, "end": 1660.525, "text": "during debate," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 1661.265, "end": 1672.185, "text": "the war in the car was mentioned by myself, which stimulated a massive amount of discussion, emails, phone calls, press interviews. A lot of the residents have told me" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 1672.605, "end": 1673.325, "text": "uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 1673.725, "end": 1678.345, "text": "about their concerns. And the big one would be some of the costs and what our future transportation" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 1678.525, "end": 1681.665, "text": "uh design looks like. Uh I was told on 15th I've" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 1682.165, "end": 1702.845, "text": "That it was over a million dollars a block, maybe ten over ten million dollars for maybe ten blocks worth of uh where a bike lane already was, and they have traffic issues, and now we're talking about 26th Avenue, a much longer stretch of road with plus but the potential of hundreds of parking spots being removed until millions of dollars. I'm not sure if you can answer. I guess this question is for" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 1703.185, "end": 1714.625, "text": "GM Thompson. Maybe you can cut speak to the costs of these and if there's any plans on updating Calgary's transportation plan and connectivity with our skeletal roadwork for all modes of transportation." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 1716.305, "end": 1726.165, "text": "Yeah, thanks for the uh question, Councillor McCain McLean. So um cost with respect to our 5A program is where I'll start. Uh so our 5A program," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 1726.385, "end": 1738.285, "text": "uh really over the last five years, uh a program of 60 million dollars. If you put that into context for the 2026 capital budget, that works out to be 0.4" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 1739.085, "end": 1745.525, "text": "percent of the city's 2026 capital budget will be invested in the 5A program." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 1745.825, "end": 1759.225, "text": "Last year there were 16 projects completed, 34 RRFBs were included in that. At the end of last year, there were 14 projects under construction, 12 are in detailed design, and we're planning to add 21 RRFBs" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 1759.385, "end": 1762.285, "text": "this year in 2026 going forward." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 1762.645, "end": 1810.325, "text": "And so I don't have the specific costs for 26th Avenue, apologize, uh, but I can get those for you. But as you look at the entire program uh and think about the cost of our investments across the city and the uh the decisions we're making, again, the 5A program in 2026 will be 0.4% of the capital budget across. We could get data for you on the percentage of that program with respect to all investments in transportation as well as mode split, if you'd like. As you as you'd indicated, we've looked at that in the past. One of the comments that we typically heard from the public was that we were underfunding investments into active modes of uh transportation as compared to all other modes. So happy to get that data and shared going forward." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 1811.245, "end": 1811.665, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 1813.265, "end": 1831.445, "text": "Thank you. I'm next in the queue. I recently had an opportunity to attend a town hall meeting with community association presidents hosted by the Federation of Calgary Communities. I was asked about the upcoming public hearing on citywide rezoning. The question was uh back in 2024, the hearing was in April" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 1831.665, "end": 1836.865, "text": "and the implementation date was in August, and this time around, the the hearing is a month earlier in March." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 1837.105, "end": 1840.945, "text": "But the implementation implementation date is still in August, meaning that" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 1841.305, "end": 1845.385, "text": "if approved by council, the implementation would take about a month longer this time." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 1845.665, "end": 1860.565, "text": "I understand that it's a simpler process to have gone to RCG everywhere, and it's a much more complicated process to uh undo the change, and this is the reason why it would take a little longer. Can administration just verify if I got that information right and if that's the reason." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 1861.085, "end": 1863.325, "text": "Mayor, you're absolutely correct on that side." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 1863.885, "end": 1864.645, "text": "That's the reason." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 1865.265, "end": 1865.585, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 1869.145, "end": 1870.285, "text": "Next to Councillor Schmidt." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 1871.925, "end": 1875.845, "text": "Uh yes, thank you. Uh my question is uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 1876.325, "end": 1918.005, "text": "Not meant to prolong the war here. But the question comes from several residents and business owners in the area of Altador and Marteloupe, specifically for the first question. The intersection of 29th Ave and 14th Street Southwest, and more generally on 14th Street between 17th Ave and 38th South 38th Avenue Southwest, where we've seen a high pace of change in the neighborhood. For that specific intersection, is mobility in a position to provide updated data about vehicle and pedestrian incidences. We've had several reports from the community about multiple problems here per month." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 1920.325, "end": 1958.925, "text": "Thanks very much for the question. Of course, safety is never a war for us. It needs to be safe for all users. We did review the 10-year period on this intersection. We've had one incident in June of 2018 with major injuries to the pedestrian. Last year we had 34 311 requests within a 100 meter radius of that intersection related to request for traffic signals and other safety incidents. So we do use that in subordinate analysis and prioritization. As far as the entire corridor, we'll take an undertaking to have a broader look. I don't have that data with me today, and we can get back to you through a memo to look at traffic safety, pedestrian safety in that area." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 1959.405, "end": 1987.465, "text": "Excellent, and thank you for that answer. And just to follow up on that point, uh, the West Elbow LAP has uh seen a lot of change and will continue to see a lot of change in the area that is affected by this local area plan. Is it possible for us to have further information around that study that you've just mentioned in that memo with any changes we've seen since the implementation of the West Elbow LAP?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 1988.565, "end": 2010.105, "text": "I'm going to take this one, Councillor Schmidt. So the West Elbow local area plan was only approved last May. And so safety and connectivity are a main objective of the plan. And one of the chapters, Chapter Three of the Local Area Plan, identifies 14th Street where pedestrian crossings should be prioritized. So currently we" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 2011.725, "end": 2021.825, "text": "We don't have data for 2025, but we do have a plan to continue monitoring that work and so we can coordinate with operational services to get you the information." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 2022.125, "end": 2022.525, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2024.825, "end": 2025.805, "text": "Thank you, Counselor." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2026.405, "end": 2032.185, "text": "On to the agenda. May I please please have a mover and seconder for confirmation." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2033.105, "end": 2035.665, "text": "Moved by Councilor Clark, seconded by Counselor Yule." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2036.065, "end": 2038.805, "text": "We have a couple amendments here to agenda." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2039.425, "end": 2041.225, "text": "First to Councilor Shabot, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2044.585, "end": 2044.765, "text": "Yep." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 2046.865, "end": 2048.965, "text": "Sorry. Yeah, I believe Madam Clerk has it. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 2049.505, "end": 2052.565, "text": "in speaking with the police um in regards to my notice of motion," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 2053.025, "end": 2059.585, "text": "uh they said that they would be available to answer questions. Should counsel have any questions specifically on my notice of motion? Uh but they" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 2059.985, "end": 2091.245, "text": "They would only be available at a specific time. So I was hoping to get council's indulgence to allow them to at least be present to answer questions should council have any, which is not to say that I'm I'm asking for them to be able to speak to this item, but certainly it would be beneficial, I think, if they were here to answer any questions. And as I indicated, they can only be here at a particular time, which would be immediately after the lunch break. So I'm hoping council will support me in the motion to um have this item be the first item business following the lunch lunch recess." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2091.825, "end": 2106.565, "text": "Thank you. That's moved by Councillor Shabot. Second by uh Counselor Yule. I'll just note there's a procedural motion later in the uh day here today where we're going to attempt for a longer lunch break. So that's about 1 15. I believe we would be targeting starting a little bit earlier our lunch." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2107.105, "end": 2116.005, "text": "So I will uh call the question on uh that time specific request for the uh notice of motion to accommodate Calgary Police Service. Uh all in favor?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2116.785, "end": 2117.605, "text": "Any opposed?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2118.865, "end": 2122.665, "text": "Seeing none, that motion is carried unanimously over to uh counselor wenis." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 2123.745, "end": 2130.665, "text": "Thanks. Um clerks has the wording. We have to add an item for audit committee to the agenda to add a new public member." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 2131.105, "end": 2131.565, "text": "Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 2131.925, "end": 2141.385, "text": "unfortunately, as we've recognized in the past, our public member McGilvery passed away, and so this is to um filler spot. So I hope I can get support from counsel. Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2141.865, "end": 2146.165, "text": "Thank you. That's second by uh counselor Jameson as uh vice chair." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2146.505, "end": 2164.945, "text": "Uh my recommendation, yes, council. Uh as chair, I'm I'm I'm tasked with uh making a recommendation of whether urgent business should be added to the agenda. My recommendation strongly is yes to accommodate this and allow for the full roster of audit committee. Any debate on adding this urgent notice of motion for public member appointment to audit committee?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2166.145, "end": 2171.045, "text": "Seeing none, uh all in favor, this will require 10 votes to to be added." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2171.785, "end": 2172.565, "text": "Any opposed?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2173.305, "end": 2177.405, "text": "Seeing none, that uh adding a virgin business has carried unanimously." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2183.505, "end": 2185.525, "text": "Anyone else uh on the agenda?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2188.925, "end": 2193.805, "text": "Okay, seeing none, uh we'll call the question on the agenda as amended." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2194.285, "end": 2196.665, "text": "Uh Madam Clerk, let's engage the e vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2220.185, "end": 2221.665, "text": "Counselor Ewell, your vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2222.065, "end": 2224.005, "text": "Thank you. Counselor Jameson, your vote, please. Thank" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 2224.625, "end": 2225.065, "text": "Yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2225.525, "end": 2227.745, "text": "you. Councillor Tyers, your vote, please. Yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2227.905, "end": 2229.845, "text": "Thank you. Counselor McLean, your vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2230.265, "end": 2230.685, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2231.045, "end": 2232.345, "text": "Mayor Farkas, all the votes are in." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2232.545, "end": 2234.045, "text": "Thank you. Please display the results." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2236.765, "end": 2238.745, "text": "All right, that motion is carried 15 to 0." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2239.225, "end": 2262.245, "text": "We have a procedural motion prepared to modify our lunch recess to begin at 11:45 for 90 minutes. And that's in order for us as members of council to attend the former members of council 2021 to 2025 lunch recognition event. May I please have a mover to modify the lunch recess? Move by uh counselor Jameson, second by counselor Ewell. Any debate on this?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2264.045, "end": 2265.765, "text": "Seeing none, uh all in favor." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2267.245, "end": 2268.025, "text": "Any opposed?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2268.845, "end": 2270.625, "text": "All right. That motion has carried" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2270.905, "end": 2271.665, "text": "unanimously." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2272.245, "end": 2276.485, "text": "Councillor Chabot, uh, would you mind uh moving a" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2279.285, "end": 2303.545, "text": "uh approval of the minutes less 6.1? I'm asking uh for withhold on approvement on or I'm asking for us withholding the approval of minutes for the public hearing of 2026, January 20th. The reason being we recognize the 41st uh Canadian Brigade, but I'd just like the minutes to rec reflect the actual subsidiary groups that uh were recognized, given that they represent about 2,000 uh reservists and other uh service members." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 2303.705, "end": 2306.345, "text": "Yeah, no, I'd be happy to make that motion. And uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 2306.805, "end": 2319.845, "text": "again, um Madam Clerk, uh good job, although uh not as onerous as some of the previous ones that had so many pages, these ones at least were slightly shorter. So thank you for that. I guess I I can thank counsel for that, but happy to move that." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2320.005, "end": 2323.125, "text": "Okay, that's moved by Councillor Chabot, second by Councillor Tyers." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2323.385, "end": 2323.685, "text": "Okay." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2324.245, "end": 2345.025, "text": "All right. And these are these are all the minutes less uh 6.1, the the minutes of that uh public hearing meeting of 2026, January 20th, and we will approve the minutes for that at our next meeting with the the reflection of those uh uh service organizations. So uh all in favor on uh the approval of 6.2, 3, and 6.4?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2345.665, "end": 2346.465, "text": "Any opposed?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2347.065, "end": 2350.005, "text": "Seeing none, that motion has carried unanimously." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2359.205, "end": 2360.145, "text": "All right." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 2360.145, "end": 2363.245, "text": "We are now to item seven, the consent agenda." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 2363.505, "end": 2366.685, "text": "Can I please have a mover and seconder for the omnibus motion?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2368.785, "end": 2371.705, "text": "Moved by Councillor Chabot, seconded by Councillor Clark." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2372.305, "end": 2376.145, "text": "Any request to poll any of the uh Madam Clerk, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2378.165, "end": 2390.265, "text": "Thank you, Mayor. Apologies for the interruption, but as part of your agenda following confirmation of the minutes, you did set item 12.2.1, the investment opportunity and evaluation as a time specific following the minutes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2390.445, "end": 2391.085, "text": "Oh, okay." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2391.545, "end": 2392.745, "text": "So we're going to that item now." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2392.765, "end": 2401.685, "text": "Thanks for thank you for the reminder. I I should I should read my notes better. All right, uh, we are for that uh time specific item now. We can uh proceed to the administration uh report on that." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2416.985, "end": 2422.025, "text": "Okay, so given that it's 12.2.1, uh Madam Clerk, is it just a motion to move into closed session?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2422.305, "end": 2438.425, "text": "That's correct, but it also includes an external participant that has been requested by administration. So you're also giving authorization for Doug Ivanchuk, external consultant, to be authorized to attend the closed session with respect to 12 item 12.2.1." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2439.525, "end": 2451.645, "text": "Thank you. The uh given that it's a confidential notice of motion, we're required to go into closed session to uh debate the item and it is time since we have set it uh at this point in the agenda to uh accommodate the uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2452.285, "end": 2455.845, "text": "schedule of our external consultant to be able to join us to be able to speak to that." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2456.385, "end": 2462.845, "text": "So may I please have a mover and seconder to move into closed session move by Councilor Pandazopoulos, seconded by uh Councilor McLean." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2464.445, "end": 2466.225, "text": "All right, so it's on the uh floor." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2466.805, "end": 2470.665, "text": "Not seeing any debate. Uh let's engage the e vote, please, on moving into closed session." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2491.525, "end": 2492.885, "text": "Councilor Clark, your vote please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_31", "start": 2493.625, "end": 2494.085, "text": "Yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2494.245, "end": 2496.085, "text": "Thank you. Councilor Dollywall, your vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2498.505, "end": 2500.085, "text": "Counselor Atkinson, your vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_31", "start": 2500.745, "end": 2501.165, "text": "Yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2501.245, "end": 2501.785, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2502.025, "end": 2503.505, "text": "Councilor Tyres, your vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_03", "start": 2503.745, "end": 2504.045, "text": "Yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2504.045, "end": 2504.645, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2504.945, "end": 2506.585, "text": "Councilor Shabot, your vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2508.525, "end": 2508.765, "text": "No." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2509.265, "end": 2509.825, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2511.185, "end": 2512.605, "text": "And Mayor Farkas, your vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2512.745, "end": 2513.065, "text": "Yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2513.285, "end": 2513.785, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2514.385, "end": 2515.545, "text": "Mayor Farkas, all the votes are" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2516.625, "end": 2519.065, "text": "Thank you, Madam Clerk. Please display the results." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2529.545, "end": 2534.425, "text": "I'm moving into closed session. That motion is carried 13 to 2 with counselors Johnston and Chabot" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2534.945, "end": 2538.765, "text": "opposed. All right. We will move now to the uh council boardroom." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2546.725, "end": 2549.125, "text": "Thank you, Mayor, on the roll. Councillor McLean," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 2550.065, "end": 2550.565, "text": "Here." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2551.405, "end": 2552.985, "text": "Councilor Pantazopoulos," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2553.485, "end": 2554.445, "text": "Councillor Schmidt," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2554.965, "end": 2556.245, "text": "Counselor Tyres," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2556.745, "end": 2557.705, "text": "Councillor Ward," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2558.425, "end": 2559.625, "text": "Counselor Wyness," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2562.105, "end": 2563.045, "text": "Counselor Ewell," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 2563.425, "end": 2563.665, "text": "Here." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2563.945, "end": 2565.085, "text": "Councillor Atkinson," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2566.085, "end": 2566.985, "text": "Counselor Chabot," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 2567.405, "end": 2567.705, "text": "Present." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2568.025, "end": 2568.825, "text": "Counselor Clerk," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2569.485, "end": 2570.605, "text": "Counselor Dollywall." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2573.365, "end": 2574.205, "text": "Counselor Dollywall," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_35", "start": 2575.505, "end": 2575.945, "text": "I'm here." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2576.165, "end": 2576.645, "text": "thank you," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2576.805, "end": 2577.885, "text": "Counselor Jameson," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 2578.245, "end": 2578.565, "text": "Present." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2578.725, "end": 2579.825, "text": "Councillor Johnston," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2579.885, "end": 2580.125, "text": "Yeah." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2580.445, "end": 2581.405, "text": "Councillor Kelly," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 2581.545, "end": 2581.925, "text": "Present." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2582.065, "end": 2583.265, "text": "and Mayor Farkas." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2583.425, "end": 2583.905, "text": "I'm here." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2583.985, "end": 2584.605, "text": "Thank you, Mayor." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2585.145, "end": 2589.865, "text": "Thank you, Madam Clerk. I believe we have a series of recommendations. First with the rising report." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2590.645, "end": 2592.365, "text": "That's correct. Ryzen report first." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2592.825, "end": 2596.205, "text": "Uh Councilor Shabot has moved that. Uh second by" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2596.845, "end": 2601.945, "text": "Councillor or Deputy Mayor Pantasopoulos. On that are we agreed. All in favor of rising reporting." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2602.945, "end": 2603.685, "text": "Any opposed?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2604.245, "end": 2605.545, "text": "That motion has carried." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2606.625, "end": 2608.905, "text": "I think we got the the next recommendation as well." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2618.805, "end": 2622.685, "text": "Okay, we have uh with respect to the confidential notice of motion" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2622.825, "end": 2628.385, "text": "adopting the recommendation and directing the uh discussions held uh confidential moved by" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2628.745, "end": 2631.525, "text": "uh Deputy Member Pentezopoulos, seconded by uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2632.065, "end": 2633.685, "text": "Councilor uh McLean." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2635.365, "end": 2636.985, "text": "Any opening remarks, uh Deputy Member?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 2638.245, "end": 2638.825, "text": "No, thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2639.065, "end": 2640.765, "text": "Brief debate from uh Councilor Chabot." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 2642.105, "end": 2643.325, "text": "Yeah, I'm going to uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 2643.545, "end": 2646.365, "text": "embody one of my former colleagues, uh uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 2646.705, "end": 2648.225, "text": "Alderman Hodges," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 2648.445, "end": 2649.425, "text": "who used to say" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 2649.665, "end": 2651.565, "text": "when he didn't like something, to say," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 2651.865, "end": 2653.525, "text": "just mark me opposed, your worship." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 2654.485, "end": 2655.925, "text": "I will be opposed to this motion." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2656.125, "end": 2659.525, "text": "Thank you, uh Councillor Chabot. And to that effect, I will" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2661.005, "end": 2663.245, "text": "ask that the two items be called separately." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2664.765, "end": 2669.765, "text": "There's a difference between uh adopting the recommendations versus holding the uh discussions confidential." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2674.145, "end": 2675.665, "text": "We'll give a moment just uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2676.385, "end": 2680.925, "text": "for the clerks to to be able to engage the vote uh separately on the two recommendations." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2694.505, "end": 2696.225, "text": "Well, I am in the wrong meeting in Teams." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2696.925, "end": 2698.205, "text": "Uh Counselor Johnston." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 2700.365, "end": 2703.285, "text": "Uh sorry, the recommendations um included a" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 2704.965, "end": 2706.105, "text": "um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 2707.965, "end": 2709.225, "text": "financial amount." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 2710.065, "end": 2710.385, "text": "Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2712.165, "end": 2720.005, "text": "The uh the recommendations are the confidential attachment that's in E scribe in the uh confidential or the close meeting." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2720.405, "end": 2723.745, "text": "Uh portion in E scribe. So what you're voting on is the" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2724.385, "end": 2727.845, "text": "notice of motion in that confidential attachment on 12.2.1." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 2728.485, "end": 2730.785, "text": "but the directions to admin" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2732.525, "end": 2734.305, "text": "I'd say uh the the the" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2734.725, "end": 2734.825, "text": "response" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 2735.185, "end": 2736.485, "text": "Your worship, point of procedure." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 2736.925, "end": 2738.285, "text": "I I think what counselor" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 2738.485, "end": 2739.345, "text": "Johnson is" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 2739.565, "end": 2742.705, "text": "referring to might be something that was discussed in confidence." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2743.205, "end": 2750.885, "text": "Yeah, I counselor uh Johnson. I unfortunately can't elaborate further on that and I'd ask that you please uh reflect uh respect the confidentiality of the meeting." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 2751.365, "end": 2757.065, "text": "I don't think I was. I was being very careful about that. I didn't talk to anything that was said in camera." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 2757.905, "end": 2759.385, "text": "I'm just trying to clarify if" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2759.385, "end": 2763.085, "text": "Just the answer to your question is uh please use the confidential attachment." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 2764.985, "end": 2766.105, "text": "then okay, whatever." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2773.925, "end": 2775.785, "text": "All right, how are we looking, uh Madam Clerk?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2776.705, "end": 2782.465, "text": "We are ready, Mayor Farkas. So we will cast recommendation number one first." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2783.845, "end": 2792.305, "text": "Thank you. On number one, on adopting the confidential recommendations contained in the confidential notice of motion, please engage the e-vote." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2820.705, "end": 2822.665, "text": "Councillor Pantasopoulos, your vote, please. Thank" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 2823.005, "end": 2823.425, "text": "Yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2823.825, "end": 2825.665, "text": "you. Councillor Dollywall, your vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2830.045, "end": 2831.785, "text": "Councilor Dollywall, your vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2834.025, "end": 2835.785, "text": "Please mark Councillor Dollywall absent." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2837.425, "end": 2838.685, "text": "Mayor Farkas, your vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2838.805, "end": 2839.105, "text": "Yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2839.325, "end": 2839.665, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2841.445, "end": 2842.745, "text": "Mayor Farkas, all the votes are in." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2843.125, "end": 2844.665, "text": "Thank you. Please display the results." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2857.085, "end": 2862.425, "text": "And on the confidential notice of motion, the motion is carried with counselors Ward, Johnston, Schmidt," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2862.685, "end": 2864.845, "text": "Atkinson, Chabot, and Wynass opposed." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2866.025, "end": 2870.685, "text": "Madam Clerk, let's engage the e-vote on the uh second recommendation, holding in confidence the" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2871.625, "end": 2873.885, "text": "uh counselor Dallywell, you have a request to speak." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_35", "start": 2874.805, "end": 2880.965, "text": "Sorry, Mayor. My apologies. There were some IT issues. On the first one, I'm no to." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2883.085, "end": 2889.105, "text": "Okay. So unfortunately, procedurally, we can't mark you down as a no based on you being absent for that vote." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2890.065, "end": 2890.285, "text": "Okay." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 2890.865, "end": 2891.045, "text": "Uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2891.045, "end": 2892.125, "text": "I did call the vote." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 2892.125, "end": 2892.565, "text": "procedures." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2892.565, "end": 2896.145, "text": "Just a moment, Counselor Kelly, if I could just uh get the clerk to weigh in here." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2896.485, "end": 2903.925, "text": "Mayor Farkas, so at this point, it would we would need to reconsider the vote." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2904.205, "end": 2906.965, "text": "In order to allow Counselor Dollywall to cast it." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2907.145, "end": 2911.265, "text": "All right, Councilor Kelly, do you want to move a reconsideration of the decision that we just made?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 2911.405, "end": 2923.585, "text": "Uh happy to, but first just point of procedure just for everyone. The audio apparently went out on online, which is why I believe that Councillor Dollywall could not hear you ask for his vote. Yes, I'm happy to move a uh uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 2924.505, "end": 2926.505, "text": "a vote of what reconsideration." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2926.505, "end": 2931.345, "text": "You're going you're moving a reconsideration to allow us to re vote on that matter so that uh counselor Kelly." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 2931.345, "end": 2932.985, "text": "Dollywall just cast his vote. Yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2932.985, "end": 2935.665, "text": "So that's moved by Councilor Kelly, seconded by" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2936.705, "end": 2937.965, "text": "Councilor Wyness. Uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2938.825, "end": 2941.865, "text": "are we agreed to reconsider the vote that we just had?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2943.465, "end": 2943.665, "text": "Okay." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2944.145, "end": 2944.785, "text": "Any opposed?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2946.185, "end": 2948.245, "text": "Seeing none, that motion is carried unanimously." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 2948.885, "end": 2956.285, "text": "Uh it has been uh removed and re-seconded is on the table. I'm calling the question. Madam Clerk, let's uh engage the e-vote on recommendation one." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 2997.345, "end": 3000.285, "text": "On recommendation number one, your vote, please, Councillor Ward." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 3002.785, "end": 3003.025, "text": "Nope." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3003.365, "end": 3004.645, "text": "Thank you. Counselor Ewell." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3005.445, "end": 3005.925, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3006.525, "end": 3007.605, "text": "Counselor Jameson." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_32", "start": 3007.865, "end": 3008.205, "text": "Yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3008.305, "end": 3008.825, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3010.765, "end": 3011.765, "text": "Counselor Johnston?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 3012.365, "end": 3012.545, "text": "Nope." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3013.105, "end": 3013.365, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3015.145, "end": 3016.085, "text": "Counselor Dollywald?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_35", "start": 3017.105, "end": 3017.385, "text": "No." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3017.765, "end": 3018.245, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3019.545, "end": 3020.305, "text": "Mayor Farkas." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3020.985, "end": 3021.325, "text": "Yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3023.305, "end": 3024.525, "text": "Mayor Farkas, all the votes are in." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3024.785, "end": 3026.285, "text": "Thank you. Please display the results." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3039.265, "end": 3043.305, "text": "On the confidential notice of motion, the uh motion is carried eight to seven" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3043.685, "end": 3048.445, "text": "with counselors ward, Johnston, Schmidt, Dallywell, Atkinson, Chabot, and Wyness opposed." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3049.225, "end": 3053.805, "text": "Uh Madam Clerk, let's please call the uh e vote on the second recommendation, which is keeping" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3054.145, "end": 3057.485, "text": "uh confidential the uh attachment in the discussion. So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 3066.765, "end": 3068.645, "text": "Eboat's still spinning around here." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3070.785, "end": 3073.085, "text": "Thank you, Counselor. It has been noted that it's slow." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3085.025, "end": 3088.145, "text": "On recommendation number two, Councilor Johnston, your vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3088.545, "end": 3090.345, "text": "Thank you. Mayor Farkas, your vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3090.525, "end": 3090.805, "text": "yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3091.085, "end": 3091.565, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3092.345, "end": 3093.585, "text": "Mayor Farkas, all the votes are in." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3093.825, "end": 3095.225, "text": "Thank you. Please display the results." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3117.265, "end": 3119.545, "text": "Mayor Farkas, we are unable to dis Oh, there it is." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3120.105, "end": 3131.345, "text": "And that motion is carried 14 to 1. All right, Council, very quickly, can I get a mover and seconder for the consent agenda omnibus? Moved by Councillor Chabot, seconded by Councillor Wines." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3132.045, "end": 3134.165, "text": "Any requests for items to be pulled?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3138.245, "end": 3143.505, "text": "Okay. Seeing none, I'm gonna call the question on the omnibus uh consent agenda motion." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3143.785, "end": 3145.325, "text": "Adam Clerk, let's uh engage the evo." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3189.765, "end": 3192.305, "text": "On the consent agenda. Councillor Ward, your vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 3192.885, "end": 3193.225, "text": "Yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3193.325, "end": 3193.845, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3194.105, "end": 3195.945, "text": "Councilor Pentazoulis, your vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3196.525, "end": 3196.885, "text": "Yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3197.165, "end": 3197.485, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3201.025, "end": 3202.705, "text": "Councilor Jameson, your vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_14", "start": 3203.405, "end": 3203.865, "text": "Yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3204.365, "end": 3204.905, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3205.965, "end": 3207.625, "text": "Councillor Atkinson, your vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3208.105, "end": 3208.505, "text": "Yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3208.705, "end": 3209.285, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3210.345, "end": 3211.745, "text": "Councillor Kelly, your vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3214.845, "end": 3215.165, "text": "Yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3215.385, "end": 3217.505, "text": "Thank you. Counselor Johnston, your vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3217.585, "end": 3218.045, "text": "Yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3218.045, "end": 3220.005, "text": "Thank you. And Mayor Farkas, your vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3220.025, "end": 3220.345, "text": "Yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3220.605, "end": 3221.065, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3221.465, "end": 3222.225, "text": "All the votes are in." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3222.425, "end": 3223.965, "text": "Thank you. Please display the results." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3230.765, "end": 3236.705, "text": "And the consent agenda has uh carried unanimously 15 to 0. Uh we will be back around" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3236.885, "end": 3238.285, "text": "let's say 120." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3244.265, "end": 3245.125, "text": "Would you please call the roll?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3245.785, "end": 3248.405, "text": "Thank you, Mayor. On the roll. Counselor Jameson." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3251.845, "end": 3252.685, "text": "Counselor Jameson." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3253.745, "end": 3254.225, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3256.985, "end": 3258.305, "text": "Counselor Johnston." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3259.125, "end": 3259.885, "text": "Counselor Kelly." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3262.305, "end": 3263.205, "text": "Counselor McLean." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3265.585, "end": 3266.805, "text": "Counselor Pantazopoulos." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3267.505, "end": 3268.285, "text": "Counselor Schmidt." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3268.865, "end": 3269.845, "text": "Counselor Tyres." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3270.585, "end": 3271.405, "text": "Counselor Ward." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3272.165, "end": 3273.165, "text": "Counselor Wyness." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3275.145, "end": 3275.945, "text": "Counselor Ewell." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3276.585, "end": 3277.685, "text": "Counselor Atkinson." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 3277.785, "end": 3278.045, "text": "Here." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3278.185, "end": 3278.985, "text": "Counselor Chabot." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 3280.325, "end": 3280.525, "text": "Present." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3280.985, "end": 3281.825, "text": "Counselor Clark." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_31", "start": 3282.125, "end": 3282.485, "text": "Present." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3282.745, "end": 3283.785, "text": "Counselor Dolly Wall." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3286.305, "end": 3287.325, "text": "And Mayor Farkas." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3287.545, "end": 3288.065, "text": "I am here." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 3288.105, "end": 3288.725, "text": "Thank you, Mayor." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3289.305, "end": 3297.165, "text": "We have a uh time specific item for after the break. It is now after the break. Uh over to you, Councillor Shabot, to introduce the uh notice motion." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3298.545, "end": 3300.065, "text": "Thank you, members of" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3300.365, "end": 3301.545, "text": "Council." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3302.005, "end": 3303.565, "text": "Thanks for supporting this to come" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3304.265, "end": 3308.345, "text": "to Council for us to have a more lengthy discussion around this." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3308.825, "end": 3312.065, "text": "Of course, I've had a chance to speak with the law department about this matter, and" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3312.445, "end": 3314.725, "text": "theft under still falls under criminal code." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3315.085, "end": 3321.325, "text": "But what I'm hoping to get out of this investigation is different options that we can pursue for" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3321.645, "end": 3324.505, "text": "a number of reasons. One including" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3324.685, "end": 3329.005, "text": "Reestablishing public confidence into our" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3329.385, "end": 3331.405, "text": "enforcement uh system." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3331.645, "end": 3333.465, "text": "Um, of course, trying to" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3333.685, "end": 3335.225, "text": "get away from the" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3336.085, "end": 3336.545, "text": "um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3336.925, "end": 3338.765, "text": "litigious work that goes into a" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3339.025, "end": 3342.285, "text": "criminal code conviction by looking at alternatives that" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3342.485, "end": 3344.425, "text": "could potentially lead to um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3345.085, "end": 3348.885, "text": "uh I guess more better use of our existing resources." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3349.485, "end": 3350.125, "text": "Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3350.425, "end": 3354.165, "text": "of course theft under whatever it happens to be, whether it's 5,000 or" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3354.345, "end": 3359.845, "text": "Hundred dollars still falls under criminal code, and although the notice of motion does reference that." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3360.545, "end": 3372.505, "text": "The intent here is to look at what alternatives, what amendments could be uh brought forward, what bylaw could be brought forward that that would uh meet the test of of um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3373.385, "end": 3378.985, "text": "law enforcement that falls within municipal authority. Uh obviously looking at how we can" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3379.245, "end": 3386.045, "text": "leverage some of our existing resources, including bylaw, uh police, uh, by making it less litigious." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3386.525, "end": 3393.225, "text": "And again, it's um having some accountability because a lot of thefts under $100 um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3393.625, "end": 3400.705, "text": "uh tend to go unreported. I recently had a discussion with uh a for uh a current mayor, actually, who was um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3401.385, "end": 3402.125, "text": "a um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3402.465, "end": 3404.725, "text": "loss prevention officer, an LPO," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3405.125, "end": 3412.685, "text": "and he said basically towards the end of his serving uh as an LPO, he basically was told not." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3413.105, "end": 3420.345, "text": "To even arrest people that he watched them walk out with with goods. And it it's not so much about" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3420.785, "end": 3422.205, "text": "whether or not you have the" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3423.205, "end": 3425.665, "text": "amount of rigor that goes into a" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3427.065, "end": 3430.105, "text": "uh a criminal conviction, but being able to" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3430.385, "end": 3431.145, "text": "get some" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3431.665, "end": 3433.805, "text": "accumulate some data, especially for" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3433.985, "end": 3441.025, "text": "folks that repeatedly uh do things over and over again and maybe connecting them to the appropriate resources to get them off that path." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3441.205, "end": 3445.685, "text": "Again, I'm looking for information what op what options there may be out there." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3446.085, "end": 3450.025, "text": "Uh in other municipalities, something that we can implement at a municipal level." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3450.485, "end": 3457.005, "text": "And yes, I know criminal code issue is not something that I I nef I want to go into." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3457.465, "end": 3457.985, "text": "Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3458.685, "end": 3460.145, "text": "but as I said," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3460.405, "end": 3460.905, "text": "um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3461.525, "end": 3464.165, "text": "I'm hoping that council will at least consider this. And" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3464.445, "end": 3473.045, "text": "I did ask the police officers that helped to draft this notice of motion if they'd be willing to come to council to answer any questions." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3473.245, "end": 3474.725, "text": "Uh they are here. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3475.325, "end": 3478.085, "text": "and so if there are any questions I ask you to" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3478.565, "end": 3482.805, "text": "please direct them to them because they know way more about this issue than I" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3483.145, "end": 3485.785, "text": "do and and I'm sure they'd be more than happy to answer" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3486.125, "end": 3487.665, "text": "any questions the council would have and" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3487.965, "end": 3489.465, "text": "I'll try and address any issues" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3489.925, "end": 3492.545, "text": "uh in my clothes that uh I haven't addressed in my open." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 3493.385, "end": 3493.785, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3493.985, "end": 3497.865, "text": "Thank you. That's uh put on the floor by Councillor Shabot, seconded by" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3499.045, "end": 3499.945, "text": "uh Councilor Winehouse." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3500.685, "end": 3501.125, "text": "Great." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3502.125, "end": 3508.085, "text": "So I don't see any lights, but uh might as well just uh maybe ask our colleagues from the Calgary Police Service to to please approach and" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3508.585, "end": 3511.445, "text": "maybe ask uh maybe I'll throw myself and just ask the question of" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3511.845, "end": 3512.805, "text": "any other uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3512.965, "end": 3514.765, "text": "commentary or flavor you could add uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3515.325, "end": 3519.845, "text": "further to uh Councilor Shabot's introduction. And thank you as well for for being with us." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3520.325, "end": 3523.725, "text": "If you don't mind just approaching, identifying yourself, stating your name and uh position." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 3524.005, "end": 3527.905, "text": "Hi there, yes. Uh I'm Acting Sergeant Jeff Hoover, uh with the Calgary Police Service." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 3528.405, "end": 3531.265, "text": "And good afternoon, Mr. Mayor. Inspector Jason Walker of District 4." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 3533.985, "end": 3536.785, "text": "So so I'm sorry, did you did you have any other uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3536.785, "end": 3540.385, "text": "Uh commentary to to add uh beyond what Councilor Shabot uh provided?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 3540.625, "end": 3624.685, "text": "You know, just that uh, you know, theft under 5,000, uh, the criminal code charge is like Councillor Sabo said, the only thing that we have in our toolbox per se to hold an offender accountable even for minor thefts, whether it be chocolate bars, bags of chips, or any item under $100 or of low value. Uh what we've found over years, I've been doing this for 17 years on patrol in District 4 here in Calgary, is it's gotten to the point where the resources for the judicial system simply don't exist to prosecute these matters. I have not heard of a single officer going to court for a shoplifting charge in my entire existence. Uh, they seem to just get put aside due to the constraints currently on the courts. Um in terms of our efficacy to enforce any accountability on offenders, uh, it's disheartening to the community uh members and the community businesses that tell us all the time they've they've grown tired of even phoning the police because we literally will walk these people out and maybe give them a trespassing ticket or a a ride home if they're a young offender or a ride to the drop in center if they're a vulnerable person. Um I think this mechanism would be very valuable in holding." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 3625.505, "end": 3655.145, "text": "They're young offenders, first-time offenders, vulnerable people accountable without then entrenching them in the criminal justice system as well. It provides an opportunity for them to attend community court in an expeditious fashion, to have a sentence perhaps given to them that would could involve rehabilitation, community service, or a fine option if that's the path they choose to follow." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 3655.685, "end": 3675.825, "text": "I guess if uh short of that, uh I know there has been some debate about the crossover between the criminal code and a bylaw, and I would like it noted just that currently there's about a dozen city bylaws, most recently the bear spray and visible weapon bylaw that overlap," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 3676.125, "end": 3680.505, "text": "if not exactly mirror criminal code charges. So um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 3680.825, "end": 3705.905, "text": "To uh coun counselor Chabot's point, if given the opportunity to explore this further until Q3, uh the end of Q3, I'm confident that with the council from CPS and the lawyers involved there uh working with the council for the city that something could uh come up, uh something something could be come up with to to make this a success. So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 3706.665, "end": 3713.245, "text": "Thanks, Jeff. And Mr. Mayor, there's not much more I can add to that. I became Jeff's commander about three months ago. So I've arrived at the" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 3713.845, "end": 3717.765, "text": "bottom of the ninth inning. If this were a baseball game, and much of the work had already been done." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 3718.185, "end": 3737.345, "text": "Sergeant Hoover, one of our most experienced and seasoned street cops, he's done the totality of his career work in the streets. And as I landed in the district, and that he showed me his proposal and walked me through it, it wasn't lost on me that concurrently, while I'm he's walking me through not just the what but the why, I'm fielding complaints in real time from citizens in District 4, from business owners specifically." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 3738.105, "end": 3790.345, "text": "This is one of the bees in their bonnet. We have a rash of thefts going on. We've got a number of entrepreneurs, multiple businesses out there, and they feel the police aren't doing enough to serve their interests because our hands are somewhat tied. Again, beyond the choke points in the court system and what constitutes a good charge in this day and age, theft under $100 simply isn't meeting the mark, and yet these folks are still being victimized. So we also have the fact that, as Jeff says, it it is young people, it is vulnerable people, it is folks that we would like to get help through community courts if possible, but it's also about the assistance of Calgary and the business owners that feel they're they're not getting satisfactory service from the Calgary Police Service. And the only last thing I would leave you with is as Jeff has been working with this, uh our command chain has very much been engaged. And from Deputy Chief O'Brien and Chief McClellan, I can say they very much support the principle of what we're trying to look at being examined here today. Thank you, sir." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3790.625, "end": 3792.525, "text": "Thank you very much. Over to Councilor Wines, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 3794.345, "end": 3799.605, "text": "I was gonna do a debate. So if you want to have everyone ask questions of the CBS, I'll be happy to come in after that." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 3799.865, "end": 3803.385, "text": "Sure, I'll come back to you. Uh Council uh Deputy Mayor Pantasopoulos." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 3803.625, "end": 3808.985, "text": "Thanks so much. And to the officers, thanks so much for your service. Just wanted to poke a bit about you mentioned proposal." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 3809.465, "end": 3830.565, "text": "What's been proposed here is really a review that may end with a hundred dollar fine or it may end with nothing. So maybe just speak a bit about your proposal, your intent, the evolution. It seems like it's a one track. You want accountability, and I would suggest sort of punishment because you're not feeling that from the crown. Can you just speak to that? You mentioned proposal, that genesis, and then this is materially different from." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 3830.985, "end": 3833.485, "text": "What I believe you were speaking to, but if you could just" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 3833.865, "end": 3835.085, "text": "thread that needle, that would be great." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 3835.745, "end": 3837.465, "text": "like in terms of how this" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 3837.845, "end": 3838.765, "text": "began, sir," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 3838.765, "end": 3850.385, "text": "No, I guess it's more you mentioned that you know our proposal for this. I think your your colleague made a comment about proposal. Like there was a proposal to get this, but now this this is taking a very different approach. It's sort of if you read the language," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 3851.245, "end": 3859.325, "text": "talk to the municipalities, look at alternatives, et cetera. So maybe just the reconciliation. If if this passes as versus what you proposed," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 3859.325, "end": 3859.685, "text": "I see." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 3859.685, "end": 3860.225, "text": "is there" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 3860.845, "end": 3894.925, "text": "So yeah, the the proposal, I guess, from from my standpoint as a as a sergeant within the Greater Service, I I needed to have the support of obviously our executive to to move forward to uh to seek counselor support uh for a bylaw application. So I created a proposal based on uh statistics and interest from um the business revitalization zone and and anecdotal evidence from officers that are are seeing the kind of disheartening uh reality of dealing with this." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 3895.645, "end": 3901.465, "text": "uh this significant issue within the city that it often goes unnoticed. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 3902.785, "end": 3910.685, "text": "once once the support was gained from from internally from the service, then I approached Councilor Chabot and and" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 3910.985, "end": 3977.565, "text": "Gave him our proposal per se and explained all the reasons why we'd like to see a bylaw enacted because charging for theft under $5,000 for someone who's stealing, you know, two sandwich loaves and a thing of peanut butter isn't isn't realistic. It's not sustained by the courts. If it's a first-time offender, that's not appropriate either. If it's a vulnerable person trying to feed themselves, that's not necessarily appropriate either. Whereas a deferral using a bylaw that is expeditious, completed within 60 days versus two years of a criminal code charge, can go through community court and enable those people, whether it's a young offender, first-time offender, vulnerable person, to access resources or pay the fine. If they've made a mistake in life and they want to pay the what I propose would be a $250 fine and carry on for that, then then so be it. But if they if they need help from the resources that are available to them, community court is much more expeditious in providing those options than the than a criminal path through through the justice system." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 3978.445, "end": 3991.345, "text": "Council Chabot just mentioned that, you know, not looking to go overstep our bounds. I mean, the criminal code is a federal, there's provincial, so so why not advocate to the Crown? Why not advocate to the province or the feds to say your observations that" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 3991.885, "end": 4005.005, "text": "it's not being enforced? Why come to City Hall, given our limited scope in this these matters? Uh essentially none. So so why tell me about that advocacy to try to change it at top of house, the ones that actually own the criminal code?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 4005.005, "end": 4032.425, "text": "Well, thank you, yeah, for that question. And that's something that that was considered and and roundtabled. Um the simple reality is that that that wheel would be uh very slow moving and that that to adjust the uh uh uh the the criminal code of Canada would be a monumentous uh uh undertaking. Whereas as we saw last year with the visible um uh excuse me, the bear spray and visible weapons uh bylaw," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 4032.945, "end": 4043.185, "text": "that was pretty expeditious. And it's it's I don't have statistics to say how many of those violation tickets have been written, um, but it certainly has enabled police because again." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 4043.865, "end": 4049.365, "text": "Prior to that bylaw's enactment, if we found someone with a visible weapon or bear spray," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 4049.905, "end": 4073.525, "text": "the only option we would have is a is either a mischief charge or a carry weapons dangerous charge, all again criminal code, which in some circumstances uh even with those two items uh might not be appropriate. Um further to that, there are about a dozen or so current bylaws within uh the city of Calgary that, like I said, almost mirror um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 4074.005, "end": 4078.225, "text": "the the criminal code as well. I I could reference those if you'd like or" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 4078.905, "end": 4122.105, "text": "I was just going to say actually that's the segue to my next question. Does it create a slippery slope? I mean, you you I think part of the the analysis from the CPS perspective and I'll is more we don't feel that there's been account your accountability for for crimes committed, theft under $5,000. A slippery slope in that could it potentially that any criminal code activity we could layer on a bylaw regardless if we set this precedent? I recognize there's 11, but you know, starting here, working it, I'm I I uh pick pick any crime and adding a $500 bylaw fine under those same logic, accountability, we just don't feel the Crown is doing their job, et cetera. Maybe just speak to that and and how do we prevent a slippery slope that we layer on all these extra punishments when specifically it's the responsibility of" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 4122.465, "end": 4125.365, "text": "His Majesty and not uh his worship here in in the mayor." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 4125.425, "end": 4132.765, "text": "a hundred percent. I I I can't argue that point except to say that the the the current problem with minor theft in Calgary" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 4133.245, "end": 4133.805, "text": "is" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 4134.065, "end": 4209.405, "text": "Far exceeds any other any other crime that's being committed. It is in the tens of thousands per year that the police are attending to and not necessarily charging every time, and quite frankly, not necessarily doing anything because there's there's nothing that can be done. And and half the time in speaking with the BRZ coordinator in in our district, uh Alison uh Karim, she has indicated her businesses uh come to her quite often and say, we don't even phone anymore. People come in with hockey bags and they fill up hockey bags full of items and then walk away, and they don't even call the police anymore because they don't feel like things have been done. Now, I would like to on a side note say if if someone's stealing a hockey bag worth of items, they they wouldn't be eligible for a bylaw ticket. They would be they would be charged criminally. But uh the 7-Eleven that gets swarmed by young people at lunchtime and has you know uh 20 people committing uh a minor theft, they don't even phone us. And it would be nice to hold that young person accountable or hold that first time offender who's on their way home from the pub and decides to stop and and steal a steal a bag of chips. It would be nice to hold them accountable because right now there's no mechanism in place to do it." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 4209.625, "end": 4223.825, "text": "So this bylaw wouldn't free up any i assuming it goes a path, because it's clearly not asking for a bylaw, it's looking for a review. But it would not free up the time of CPS. You would still if there was a call, somebody came to my store and stole that chocolate bar, you would still respond, you would still" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 4224.745, "end": 4238.425, "text": "Criminally charge them. Correct? Like, or would you just no choose to uh selectively um uh go after certain criminal codes? So walk us through if there was your $250 threshold, would it free up officer time or how would that work?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 4238.425, "end": 4328.325, "text": "So right now if we were to if we were to show up to a a theft uh uh a shoplifting progress where they had someone at Walmart and they had someone in custody and and uh they were insistent on on having them charged criminally if it was a $20 pair of shoes. So how that would look is we would remove them from the the off from the from the store, we would take them back to the office, we would house them in cells, we would we would prepare an undertaking for theft under $5,000 with a court date that was 30 to 60 days away. Uh we would release them on paper. After that is done, we'd sit down and process the report, and that total time takes about two to two and a half hours from start to finish, uh, with as soon as we hit enter on the final touches to the report. Uh, versus if we were to show up uh and we had the mechanism in place to write them a bylaw ticket for $250, we would attend, we would remove the person from the store, they would probably get trespassed by the store at the same time that usually goes uh part and parcel, and then we would write them a ticket, which would take about seven minutes, and we would send them on their way, and then we would move on to the next call. Um so I mean 10 minutes versus just over two hours to deal with these calls would be a massive savings, probably in the neighborhood of 10,000 hours per year for the Calgary police to attend other calls. Um so there is definitely uh a net benefit uh in terms of time for for officers in in that regard." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 4328.445, "end": 4332.125, "text": "Got it. So the officer makes the choice whether to criminally charge, not the crown prosecutor." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 4332.245, "end": 4334.705, "text": "That's correct. As it stands now," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 4335.705, "end": 4365.965, "text": "for the for the three bags of chips from 7-Eleven uh, you know, that uh that maybe a vulnerable person stole, well, we would show up and we would take the chips back and we'd ask the the store clerk if they if they want to go to court. They don't even know what we're talking about because they would never imagine to have called the police in the first place. Um we take the chips back, we usually give the vulnerable person a ride to the drop in center or provide them a source card and call it a day. Uh do they take advantage of any of the of the" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 4366.225, "end": 4382.725, "text": "Resources available? Probably not. If we were to charge them criminally, it would get thrown out under Bill C 75 for sure, without a doubt, before even hitting court. Whereas a violation ticket compelling them to attend before a justice of the peace within 60 days" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 4382.985, "end": 4393.525, "text": "could compel them to go through community court and could compel them to seek treatment or at least offer them resources if they wanted to kind of correct the path that they're on." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 4394.785, "end": 4398.245, "text": "Thanks again for taking my questions and thank you for your service. Thank you so much, Mr. Mayor." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 4398.805, "end": 4400.045, "text": "Thank you, Councillor McLean." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 4400.525, "end": 4403.485, "text": "Uh thank you, Meredith. Thank you for your service as well." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 4403.925, "end": 4404.565, "text": "Uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 4405.425, "end": 4409.865, "text": "Law and Order, of course. I'm a big proponent of that. It's just well, I guess we're gonna just question, see what the" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 4410.045, "end": 4411.845, "text": "efficacy of this program would be." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 4412.185, "end": 4415.525, "text": "I've done numerous ride alongs with CPS and with transit" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 4416.185, "end": 4417.025, "text": "and I've seen all s" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 4417.225, "end": 4422.305, "text": "tons of criminal behavior. I mean, again, thanks for doing your job and what you have to uh deal with." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 4422.905, "end": 4427.385, "text": "I see, especially even on transit, I mean that's not theft, I guess you're not paying your fare." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 4427.725, "end": 4430.025, "text": "And they have the chance to write a bylaw ticket." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 4430.325, "end": 4431.365, "text": "But I see the" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 4432.145, "end": 4435.045, "text": "vast, vast majority of the time they're not doing that just because" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 4435.545, "end": 4440.645, "text": "they realize it's time, energy, money, and are they ever gonna come pay the ticket? Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 4441.205, "end": 4442.065, "text": "question" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 4442.645, "end": 4443.765, "text": "in the old days, like" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 4444.185, "end": 4458.425, "text": "I mean the cops have you it was something like maybe with shoplifting, they'd involve the family. That was a big deterrent right there. They call your parents or some family. Does that exist? Do you guys have that ability? Does does that cause that probably works in some cases?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 4458.425, "end": 4488.645, "text": "100%. If it's a young person, even if we're not going to charge, we generally phone the parents and let them know and and let them know what's going on. I mean, I'm not naive to the the social the social economic differences between certain parts of the city. Uh some parents are more engaged than others and and can and can you know address those concerns within their house if the police do get a phone call saying your your your child's been caught stealing. Um but more to that point uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 4489.225, "end": 4493.205, "text": "With a bylaw t with a with a criminal code charge again" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 4493.645, "end": 4537.625, "text": "It would not even proceed. I can assert that with near 100% certainty if we were to criminally charge a youth for shoplifting uh you know three chocolate bars and a Slurpee, it is there's zero chance that that's going to court. Whereas if we were to write a bylaw ticket that compels them to go to community court, well then that young person can either be held accountable by their parents and they have to pay the $250 fine, or that young person can be directed by a justice of the peace to go shovel walks at a senior's home. Um and then the parents are engaged because they would obviously attend that uh uh appearance with their child. Um that's just one example about young offenders is" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 4538.245, "end": 4547.225, "text": "this would be a much more effective and streamlined way of dealing with um with this particular offense of theft of a small amount." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 4547.345, "end": 4563.145, "text": "Yeah, you know I wanna see criminal records for small amounts or petty criminal behavior, but then sometimes there's an accumulation of that behavior. So at what point then 'cause you've got a burglary and then you've got a shoplifting and then you've got a you know what I'm saying, is there a point then where we say, Okay, there's" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 4563.725, "end": 4565.705, "text": "we how many times are we gonna keep writing your tickets?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 4565.705, "end": 4578.405, "text": "Oh, a hundred percent. And and I mean any officer uh has to consider RISIS when they're when they're like repetition of the offense, if they're going to decide to write a bylaw ticket. They would they would pull up that person's history, and if they have a documented history of" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 4579.265, "end": 4602.045, "text": "if this were to be, if they had a documented history of getting three tickets, well, they're not going to get a ticket. They're going to get a criminal code charge. And then with that in a show cause in in in a in a investigative details to the crown prosecutor, they would say, well, he's been released, he's been issued a bylaw ticket, he was given a break three times, he was withdrawn three times, and now here he is again. It would probably proceed then." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 4602.045, "end": 4603.965, "text": "Well it g it gives a record then of repeating" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 4603.965, "end": 4604.565, "text": "This is more" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 4604.565, "end": 4609.385, "text": "So I I get that part of it, whether they pay the ticket or community court, that's still a cost." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 4609.765, "end": 4618.685, "text": "I hate when a 7 Eleven and different corporate entities have called me as a counselor when they've got to lock up all their goods. It's a pain in the butt for anybody going in there." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 4618.845, "end": 4621.005, "text": "Or just uh have to deal with uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 4621.445, "end": 4637.445, "text": "uh use people to walk in and out of stores, you can't even use the bathroom anymore. But would it say the time for if it was a criminal offense, would it be helpful if there's a downtown police station so that maybe didn't have you had a place then to take them quickly, hold them quickly, and not be taken all these long travel distances?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 4637.685, "end": 4639.445, "text": "well, that's a little bit of a s uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 4639.445, "end": 4644.525, "text": "Yeah, I'm gonna Counselor, I'm gonna give you a little bit of latitude here, but let's keep it tight. Uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 4644.525, "end": 4644.665, "text": "don't" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 4644.665, "end": 4646.045, "text": "Attempt me to answer for the chief." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 4646.045, "end": 4648.645, "text": "so I won't. We don't want the clerk to order dinner." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 4648.645, "end": 4653.965, "text": "Okay, Chair. Um okay, I'll just wrap up. Just not to not the debate, but again, this is a" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 4654.605, "end": 4661.885, "text": "I really appreciate the intent. It's maybe not uh we keep talking about staying in our lane or telling uh and we can all use the uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 4662.185, "end": 4673.425, "text": "uh this we're just looking for options and we're just looking for more information. So it depends who's doing the asking for more information, how we use it to our own advantage sometimes. I don't know if I have a big problem with this, but thank you so much for asking my question." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 4673.425, "end": 4711.385, "text": "And it raises an important point though, Counselor, to back to Sergeant Hoover's uh to the previous counsel's question about keeping track of our records here. One of the challenges we have with theft under especially minor amounts is the Crown, if they had the power to do it, would do it. But like us, they're they're tight for staffing, they're doing what they can, and these just don't meet the threshold. But you walk in with a essentially a show cause where we're gonna lay out look, this person's had seven tickets, and we're gonna keep track of all that stuff. That's where, if it's appropriate, we'll be able to get that across that threshold, and suddenly somebody is now going to court for a theft of a hundred bucks where normally that would never happen. This would be the environment where we might be able to see that happen only when it's appropriate, though." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 4711.385, "end": 4713.545, "text": "Yep, I see the value there. Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 4714.385, "end": 4715.445, "text": "Thank you, Councillor Kelly." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 4717.645, "end": 4744.325, "text": "Thank you so much for being here today. This is uh incredibly helpful for us as uh as uh you have an expertise on the street that we that we don't have. So I really appreciate you coming today so we can ask you a couple of questions. Um first, just like contact setting for me. Uh you had mentioned that uh earlier uh in response uh to one of my colleagues that you had uh that you worked on the wording of this particular motion or brought forward the idea for this notice of motion. Is that correct?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 4745.845, "end": 4748.145, "text": "that I I'm sorry, that I provided what, sir?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 4748.145, "end": 4751.345, "text": "Brought forward the idea for this particular uh notice of motion." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 4751.345, "end": 4810.305, "text": "Yes, this I this this I've been musing about uh uh a shoplifting bylaw for the last decade just because of all the reasons I've I've said so far. Um and and last year, late last year, uh I decided that I'm going to explore the option of proposing to city council that a bylaw be considered. Uh I went as uh my initial step was just to go on the website to see how our bylaws created. Once I realized the the steps that were taken, uh I ventured to get the support of the executive uh leadership team within the Calgary Police. Uh and to do that, I had to create a proposal, uh, an internal proposal to get the support from our executive, the deputies up to the chief. Um that was approved uh to move forward by them, and they see the value as well uh for for the service, the service wide benefit that it would be. Um then at that point I I approached uh Councilor Shabot uh for his support, um, who who then uh garnered the support of Councilor Wynesse." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 4810.585, "end": 4845.525, "text": "Perfect. Thank you. And that was that was where I was getting to. As I just wanted to uh to ask you if uh if the if the chief and the leadership of uh of CPS was aware of this and that yes, they're they're on board with it. And what I'm hearing is yes. Perfect. Um question that I guess it sort of as as it relates is can you maybe just explain to us a little bit in terms of like on the street uh and then in the paperwork that you do afterwards and the charging? Because I think I heard in in response to counselor Pantozopoulos that uh the decision to prosecute or the decision to charge, pardon me, uh is made by the officer, not the court. So it would be the officer, correct?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 4845.545, "end": 4886.885, "text": "So yeah, the decision to charge is the officer. The decision to prosecute clearly is the crown prosecutor. So we we can utilize discretion on a wide range of charges. If we take everything into account uh and we don't feel a charge is warranted or we simply don't even have the evidence to prove the charge uh to present to a crown prosecutor, uh that that is where our discretion is uh versus the the uh the crown basically decides to proceed based on the likelihood of conviction. And if if we as the police haven't presented a robust case that would exceed the likelihood of conviction, then the crown won't proceed." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 4887.105, "end": 4908.365, "text": "Perfect. I appreciate that. I can you maybe just walk us through a little bit in terms of what'll be different for you under well, actually maybe I'll pause on that question for a quick second. You're familiar with the original version, I believe, that Councillor Chabot brought forward to executive committee that outlined fee structure and like, or to do that. The version we're looking at here today in front of us is to come back with the report, correct? Yes. You know, okay. So uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 4909.045, "end": 4922.285, "text": "I'm I'm going to make an assumption, and I recognize that it is absolutely an assumption that the report will look very similar to the work that you've done previously that'll uh that'll come that came to us originally as the notice of motion. In that sort of a world, uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 4922.745, "end": 4933.845, "text": "Your proposal, what would look different uh for for your officers on the ground uh um uh after uh uh a theft occurs? What would what would be different in the world of" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 4934.825, "end": 4937.745, "text": "decision to charge versus fine?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 4938.525, "end": 4939.145, "text": "Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 4939.625, "end": 4941.045, "text": "Just like technically what would" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 4941.045, "end": 5045.905, "text": "To be successful and and and pass. Well, it would it would we would still have the same amount of discretion. Uh however, the threshold to charge criminally uh as stated previously is is based on numerous things, the the vulnerability of the person, are they a first-time offender? Is it a young offender? Do they have prevent parental engagement? Uh so on and so forth for minor minor theft. And depending on what what of those exist and and in what way they exist, that determines if we're going to charge them or not. If we had a bylaw, the ability to lay a bylaw charge that has an immediate um accountability and a 60-day processing time versus two years, um, we would utilize this way more. Because right now, uh I've got I've got I know I have personal anecdotal stories I could tell for days about I know families where I I walk their kid home from the store, having just stolen, over and over and over. And and it happens across the city. Um or there's you know a vulnerable person and that that you know if it's cold outside and they want to stay warm, they go into the 7-Eleven and then eventually they get hungry and they take two cups of coffee and a donut and they walk out. That's not okay for the store owner to have to bear that uh their bear, you know, to to have to watch that happen uh without consequence. Um this would enable uh us to write a violation ticket with uh a fine option of I would suggest $250 just for the deterrent level um that would go to community court. And if it's a young person or a vulnerable person or a first time offender," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 5046.425, "end": 5060.565, "text": "They go to community court within sixty days. They can be directed to provide community service. They can be directed to uh access resources and and and plenty of doors can open much quicker than if it was a criminal charge." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 5061.345, "end": 5079.045, "text": "I appreciate that. Um for the officers on the ground though, it's still like the same ticket, whether it's a whether like um yeah, filling out the same citation. Sorry, not my area of expertise at all. I apologize. Uh filling out the same site, the same citation and then just on there it's written that it's a ticket or it's a criminal offense." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 5079.045, "end": 5146.785, "text": "So yes, sort of. It's a there's a separate ticket versus a separate release document. If it's a criminal criminal charge, we release them on a on usually an undertaking or an appearance notice. An undertaking has conditions. We would put don't go to 7-Eleven and here's your undertaking. Uh whereas a ticket is is is just that. It's just a summons to appear in court on a certain day, uh usually within uh six weeks, um, to plead guilty or not guilty. I would suggest the first-time offender that I've caught shoplifting, they're embarrassed, they would show up, they'd pay the $250 and carry on with life. If it's a young person, they would have parental engagement. If it's a vulnerable person, they're certainly going to plead not guilty. Uh, in what I would like to think is an effort to go through community court and be given some fine options, uh, whether it's you know, resource uh accessing resources, community service, or or the many variables that are uh immediately available to a JP versus two years later at a criminal trial that quite frankly will never get there. It's not going to criminal court. It's not" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 5146.785, "end": 5157.925, "text": "I understand that part. Uh in this new environment, uh would it speed anything up for the officers? Like what would materially sort of change for them in that environment at the moment?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 5158.325, "end": 5231.305, "text": "Well 100%. I mean the the biggest thing would be the the immediacy of of being able to write a ticket per se. It doesn't require a charge package. It doesn't require um uh uh the time to to take the offender back to the to the district office and or you we often will release from our vehicle as well. It doesn't uh uh affect the court time in processing for the disclosure rate from the disclosure end of on on the CPS side to the disclosure end on the crown side to present the case to the crown, which usually takes a period of time. Um it would be very efficient. It goes from, like I said, about two hours if you were to charge someone with theft under shoplifting uh to ten minutes. Um and and and that's that. We would likely, if this was to be, I I am almost certain that our service, because of we like statistics, I know that there would be uh the recommendation that we do what's called an info post. If we were to write the ticket, we'd write an info post so that this could be tracked and the success and the and the and the the use of this bylaw would be tracked. Uh but even with an info post, now you're 12 minutes versus two hours." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 5232.205, "end": 5236.765, "text": "No, I really appreciate that. That's exactly the info that I was looking for there. I appreciate it. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 5236.825, "end": 5246.005, "text": "Council, I'm just gonna try to tighten us up a bit. The the motion before us is just an analysis of approaches. I know many of you have indicated me to me you want us to be done by six, so" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 5246.325, "end": 5248.445, "text": "I'm gonna assert myself a little bit more strongly." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 5251.205, "end": 5257.105, "text": "In your experience, uh fines versus criminal charge uh is one of the more effective." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 5258.505, "end": 5270.485, "text": "I mean I I I'm on the front end. I I don't know the tail end usually of of of most things of how the how that results. I knew I know for a fact in regards to this specific proposal. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 5271.045, "end": 5305.845, "text": "They everyone that decides consciously or even unconsciously to commit minor theft shoplifting knows that there's right now at this point in time there's zero consequence. So I'd like to think that if we had the ability to provide some sort of accountability that we'd see a positive result in terms of recidivism if it's a young person or maybe steering a vulnerable person into the right track through community court. And then certainly a $250 fine for the for the you know for the person that makes the poor decision one time, I think that's a good deterrent." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 5305.985, "end": 5323.865, "text": "Well I and I would add too, sir, that it's it's span of influence for us. Writing the ticket is something we have far more control of than we do in the lane of a criminal charge. We keep using the word discretion. The reality is if I asked all 150 of my officers in District 4, why don't you lay a criminal charge for theft under a hundred bucks" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 5324.245, "end": 5341.985, "text": "There it's gonna vary slightly, but the similarity, the commonality will be because it's not gonna go anywhere. We know the Crown is not able to run it's not because they don't wanna, it's because they just don't have the capacity to run with that charge. And and so there really is, in effect, no discretion there because we won't lay the charge knowing it's not a good charge to put before the court." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 5342.805, "end": 5356.685, "text": "And uh during our budget process, we had uh some conversation about uh defunding the cryp uh the community court. If we were to do that, would that change anything that you're looking at here in this particular notice motion if that uh community court went away?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 5358.865, "end": 5359.185, "text": "I" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 5359.645, "end": 5360.245, "text": "So hang on, hang on." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 5360.845, "end": 5361.145, "text": "Sorry." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 5361.585, "end": 5368.605, "text": "I'm I'm gonna say that's your last question, Councilor Kelly, and I hope I can have the support of council to make that call as chair." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 5370.365, "end": 5371.905, "text": "Beyond our pay grade, buddy." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 5373.825, "end": 5374.505, "text": "Okay." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 5375.725, "end": 5381.205, "text": "So are there uh budgetary if if council makes that budgetary decision around community court or their implementation" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 5382.705, "end": 5385.185, "text": "sorry, I am asking the question just purely from a from a" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 5385.185, "end": 5387.185, "text": "They're the wrong layer of the police department" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 5387.185, "end": 5387.985, "text": "Councilor Wynus?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 5387.985, "end": 5388.665, "text": "for that question." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 5388.665, "end": 5390.985, "text": "Councilor Wynus, I just need the opportunity to speak here." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 5391.365, "end": 5391.725, "text": "Okay." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 5392.065, "end": 5396.845, "text": "All right, so that's uh not before us, and I don't think we have the subject matter experts for that, uh Councilor Kelly." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 5396.985, "end": 5409.685, "text": "question. Uh and then uh recognizing that you've you've ruled that as my last question to to Calgary Police, I do have a couple of questions I don't know who they're directed to, but I assume uh more so admin. Is now the right time to ask those, or should we be asking those uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 5409.685, "end": 5413.845, "text": "Yes, keep it very tight to this motion about a request for uh review of approaches." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 5414.025, "end": 5417.905, "text": "Yeah, sure. Then uh to admin, I just uh curious uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 5418.845, "end": 5427.465, "text": "number one, sort of how this uh might affect section ninety-one of the Constitution Act, which is balance of powers between does uh between different levels of government." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 5428.325, "end": 5442.005, "text": "Counselor Kelly, I'm gonna I'm not gonna ask administration to answer that in the the plain words of what's before us, the request uh of analysis of approaches is not relevant to your question. I apologize, but I really have to keep our discussion on topic here." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 5442.225, "end": 5443.945, "text": "Okay. I will leave it there then I guess." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 5446.345, "end": 5448.705, "text": "Uh next in the queue, Councillor Schmidt." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 5449.485, "end": 5449.825, "text": "And" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 5452.285, "end": 5461.805, "text": "so my questions are just to flag some information I think that will be important for us to gather here as part of this exercise. So focusing on youth for a second." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 5462.465, "end": 5486.345, "text": "You you have extra judicial measures, cautions, referrals that officers have discretion to charge. So with youth, will this by loss potentially and this seek for information will the will those measures be something we should consider because we already have several mechanisms to hold youth accountable through the discretion of an arresting officer?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 5487.125, "end": 5493.845, "text": "Um you're correct. Uh for for this minor offense, I would suggest that they the the" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 5494.265, "end": 5499.385, "text": "youth are generally not referred. The the alternative measures program is is" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 5500.485, "end": 5515.705, "text": "Very overrun at this point in time. In fact, uh it's it's it's backlog. They there's they would not take every single referral that we we make. So we try to make it for uh more of a significant um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 5518.005, "end": 5535.345, "text": "have it more of an impactful outcome because of the decisions they've made. Like if if they've if they've committed something uh an assault or a significant property crime, those are what we're going to refer because there are there are very limited spaces within those programs to to run with." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 5538.245, "end": 5558.105, "text": "I'll leave that this next question for another day. Um looking at potential effects that we should also consider when we issue bylaws, oftentimes, or sorry, bylaw fines. What we often found, and I'll flag that I was I was a defense lawyer prior to this, so I did experience this quite frequently as well." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 5559.465, "end": 5570.045, "text": "Many of the people receiving a bylaw charge don't have the ability to pay the hundred dollars. There's there's ways to do that for sure. But but these are also people who" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 5570.585, "end": 5599.605, "text": "Often are unable to attend court. So is there a potential negative effect to issuing a new bylaw charge like this in high numbers where we would then see the CPS and the judicial system having to deal with a new influx of warrants because of missed court, because of missed payments, that eventually we might actually see more people coming into arrest processing because they've racked up enough fines to justify being held to pay the fine amounts." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 5601.425, "end": 5607.225, "text": "Potentially. I I don't have the answer to that. You know, the the hope would be uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 5607.765, "end": 5611.665, "text": "that again I fall back on discretion that" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 5612.305, "end": 5618.245, "text": "these these this option would be given for the appropriate cases. I don't think uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 5619.345, "end": 5635.285, "text": "I can't assert if if if if who's gonna show up to court if they're issued a ticket or not, but I'd like to think at least at least it's better than just a ride home. Uh and it doesn't leave the business owners standing there scratching their head wondering why did we even bother phoning the police." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 5635.685, "end": 5641.845, "text": "And just to flag that as something that we need to consider as well for use of resources." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 5656.425, "end": 5676.645, "text": "Well, not typically. In a lot of situations, a store owner will issue a tresp will trespass the person if they see them come back in again. So then in that case, you would again have another under the Contraventions Act, for example, a trespassing charge that does not require a criminal uh charge to be used on somebody. So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 5677.205, "end": 5682.305, "text": "What I'm getting at is the problem that this is solving, have we" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 5683.105, "end": 5699.005, "text": "looked in a bigger way about the other mechanisms we have and what problem this is actually looking to solve? Or would would it be valuable for us to look at the use of trespassing charges, for example, and other provincial charges that would relate to frequent shoplifters?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 5699.845, "end": 5711.045, "text": "A hundred percent. We we issue trespassing tickets for repeat trespassers quite often. Um it's my understanding though that there's not a nexus to um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 5711.845, "end": 5754.645, "text": "Resources or community service if they go to court, and that's generally not a sentence outcome. Whereas with this particular charge, it would be understood by the justice of the peace that you know this person, young person, first-time offender, vulnerable person, the idea is to have them acknowledge the decisions they've made for committing the crime of theft under, um, uh or committing a crime of of small level, low level shoplifting, not necessarily a trespassing. And I would suggest if a person has been trespassed numerous times and continues to steal, they're probably beyond the threshold of a bylaw ticket anyway. They're probably getting charged criminally." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 5755.825, "end": 5757.825, "text": "Okay, uh, thank you. I'll leave my questions there." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 5758.545, "end": 5766.425, "text": "Thanks. Uh we have Councilor Clark next uh in the queue. And again, uh Council, I gotta remind you what's before us is whether we want an analysis of approaches" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 5766.725, "end": 5767.505, "text": "taken by" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 5768.085, "end": 5770.665, "text": "the other municipalities. It's not whether we want to bylaw" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 5771.005, "end": 5775.965, "text": "other deeper questions or some great dialogue that's happening here, but I'd recommend uh maybe outreach to" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 5776.345, "end": 5779.085, "text": "CPS to take the meeting to be able to engage. So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 5779.285, "end": 5782.945, "text": "uh Councilor Clark on the motion for an analysis of approaches, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_31", "start": 5782.985, "end": 5823.485, "text": "With the last five seconds we have to speak to this. First of all, thank you, uh, gentlemen from District 4 for showing up today. That's fantastic. I represent Ward 9 and uh a few of the commercial districts uh in my ward uh have regular I hear from small business owners all the time. I myself am a small business owner. I've I've experienced uh the frustration I know my neighbors have consistently as well. So uh for CPS to come forward with a concept through the support of Councillor Chabot uh of a measure you think that may make an impact to better support our communities, I'm quite glad to support. Um, I had intended to speak to debate, so uh glad to leave it there. Thank you very much." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 5823.485, "end": 5830.665, "text": "The motion's been moved and seconded, so we ask questions or we debate as far as the same period of time. So if you have debate, it would be appropriate now." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 5832.485, "end": 5833.545, "text": "Yep. Do you have debate?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 5834.665, "end": 5836.485, "text": "If you have debate, Councilor Clark, jump in now, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_31", "start": 5836.505, "end": 5838.445, "text": "Uh that was no I'm uh that's it. Thank you very much." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 5838.445, "end": 5839.425, "text": "Perfect." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 5840.745, "end": 5842.325, "text": "We have uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 5842.525, "end": 5845.985, "text": "Councilor Shabot is remaining in the queue. Uh Counselor Wynus, did you want to jump in?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 5847.065, "end": 5852.605, "text": "I I might as well go though, even though there's questions for CPS because I don't like having them stand here, but if you want me to debate now I can" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 5852.605, "end": 5853.765, "text": "Yeah, it's it's the same thing." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 5853.805, "end": 5909.045, "text": "All right. Um so this is a good inquiry into the system. Right now, the justice system, me speaking of crown and prosecutors, have tossed it out. Hence why when we asked the question to CPS, why aren't you charging? Because they already know the outcome. It's going to be kicked. This council and the previous council had already worked on uh bylaws that were covered under uh other crown or federal legislation. We did safe and inclusive bylaw, which was protest zones around libraries and schools, and we had a big debate about that. But because the law weren't laws weren't being enforced at the time, we entered the sphere, but at the end of the day, it was the federal laws that trumped our bylaw. This allows us to actually create the opportunity to create the paper trail that is not existing to show the lawyers and the judges that there is a massive problem. When you look outside of Calgary on the downtown east side in Vancouver." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 5909.985, "end": 5921.525, "text": "London Drugs had to close its business because of vandalism, violence, and petty theft. Nothing was being done. It became a big item on their budget that they said, I have to close the store down." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 5922.305, "end": 5926.665, "text": "Downtown Eastside is the most invested in social programs and it's not working." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 5927.365, "end": 5954.965, "text": "So let's take the opportunity in Calgary to actually create a bylaw, get the paperwork, and get people into community court, which is showing to connect people to services, involve family. If someone's hungry and they're stealing, they can get connected to the people who provide food services to them. We have mechanisms that really do help, and this is where we need to step out there, get this research, and actually do what we originally put as a resolution, but we have to take this initial step to get there." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 5955.645, "end": 5957.025, "text": "So that's my debate." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 5957.585, "end": 5958.905, "text": "Thank you, Councilor Johnson." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 5961.825, "end": 5962.405, "text": "Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 5963.725, "end": 5965.785, "text": "part of this is asking you to" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 5966.805, "end": 5974.445, "text": "Uh include approaches taken by other Canadian municipalities. Are you aware of any other Canadian municipalities that have similar bylaws?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 5975.125, "end": 5988.525, "text": "So in in my uh exploration going down this path, there are none. There is no municipality that has a uh a bylaw to enforce shoplifting under $100. And" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 5989.305, "end": 6027.145, "text": "and to Councillor Wines's point, I I can guarantee you Vancouver and Winnipeg and Toronto and every other major city in Canada probably wishes they do because they are safe, they are faced with the exact same uh uh challenges that we are. And this is an opportunity for Calgary to to lead in that front and for the Calgary Police Service to remain committed to their pathways and engagement to the community that we serve, and instead of walking away from from people that again don't even phone the police anymore, have some sort of tool to address this problem." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 6028.565, "end": 6032.625, "text": "Have you looked to the states if they had implemented any similar bylaws?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 6033.265, "end": 6059.845, "text": "So I I I I can only speak to this the the the particular states that are on the news that that have thrown shoplifting out the window. And we've all seen the clips in the media about the consequence of that. And that's what we're trying to avoid because right now we're going down that path. People walk in, they have no accountability, they will steal from stores and simply walk out. And there's not necessarily violence, there's just ignorance. And they and they leave and the store owner stands there like this." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 6060.785, "end": 6063.025, "text": "And that's that's what we want to avoid." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 6063.085, "end": 6070.005, "text": "Well, I I would hope we would learn from that because I think it was Prop 47, they brought it in, and then Prop uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 6070.745, "end": 6073.505, "text": "36, they took it out because it didn't work." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 6074.065, "end": 6080.965, "text": "Dollarama, a lot of these smaller places were leaving cities because of these bylaws, right? This" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 6081.765, "end": 6090.505, "text": "I mean, even if it's direction to give to the CPS to come back with something, I mean it's as simple as looking at places that have already tried it and have" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 6091.885, "end": 6099.365, "text": "failed. Um and for me this looks a lot like we're passing the buck because it seems like" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 6100.265, "end": 6113.205, "text": "the biggest concern with this is that the the cost on you guys is trust me, I'd rather you guys be doing more important things. But I mean, as a small business owner, this is important when theft happens. Um but" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 6113.585, "end": 6115.925, "text": "The idea is that it would go to" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 6116.745, "end": 6121.045, "text": "community court or whatever. Like taxers are still funding and paying for" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 6122.125, "end": 6125.125, "text": "the process, whether it's you guys or somebody else, right?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_06", "start": 6127.965, "end": 6141.945, "text": "There there's a nuance to what you're asking, Counselor, that uh is lost on me right here and now and perhaps this is something as if this moves forward to be discussed further, we can try to nail that down. I think there's a lot to unpack from what you're saying. I I don't think we're in a position to answer it intelligently right now though. So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 6141.945, "end": 6151.105, "text": "Yeah, Counselor, I'd recommend maybe engagement offline with uh CPS about that. What what's before us right now is whether we want to report for analysis of approaches taken by other Canadian municipalities." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 6151.105, "end": 6157.205, "text": "Well, I guess my confusion is that is that you guys brought this to council, right? This was your guys's" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 6157.205, "end": 6162.325, "text": "No, this is a notice of motion by Councilor Shabot, which was written in consultation with CPS." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 6162.925, "end": 6167.185, "text": "Okay, so they so council came to you for this, or you guys came to council for this?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 6167.185, "end": 6176.845, "text": "I I brought it to Council Chabot, but just so I'm clear, are you uh are you uh stating that you think by writing a bylaw ticket instead of" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_20", "start": 6177.885, "end": 6186.425, "text": "uh pressing charges under the criminal code is dismissing the accountability piece of the person committing th shoplifting." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 6186.565, "end": 6187.765, "text": "No, I just think it's" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 6189.745, "end": 6200.605, "text": "It's doing the same thing. Like whether you guys do it, they go the through the two and a half hour process, or if you send it through a different path, it's still gonna cost the taxpayer the same amount of money. I just don't see cost savings on this." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 6200.845, "end": 6202.085, "text": "Um because" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 6202.665, "end": 6206.285, "text": "But but but but uh you're right, that's not the right place for this. So I apologize. But my" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 6206.225, "end": 6210.925, "text": "Counselor Johnson, I'm just gonna ask not to debate the the presenters here. They're offered uh they're here to offer their" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 6210.925, "end": 6224.945, "text": "can I finish my line of questioning before you cut me off every time I try to speak? Because I'm asking them a question. I just said that I won't ask that here, uh even though everybody else has at this point. But my my question is is the the precedent is that" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 6225.265, "end": 6226.945, "text": "police officers are bringing" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 6227.085, "end": 6233.685, "text": "bylaws and laws to council. I mean, where does that stop though, right? Like it it it's kind of scary that that" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 6233.685, "end": 6236.085, "text": "Councilor Johnson. I'm gonna cut you off there and that I" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 6236.085, "end": 6236.245, "text": "to do with" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 6236.245, "end": 6247.165, "text": "can't allow I I we can't allow council members to cast aspersions to any of our administration or CPS colleagues. Uh to be crystal clear, this is a this is a notice of motion." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 6247.585, "end": 6271.945, "text": "Brought by Councilor Shabot. So again, uh the these gentlemen have offered their expert advice. They've been made available to us, but uh it's not before us to debate them. This is a notice of motion from Councilor Shabot, and if you have debate, it is with Counselor Shabot. So if you you have two minutes and 46 seconds left if you'd like to offer debate on this motion." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 6273.305, "end": 6286.485, "text": "okay well it was them who said that they brought it to council and I'm just questioning that whether I'd vote yes or no on what stands for us. I think that should be allowed to ask the presenters who are also part of this notice of motion." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 6286.965, "end": 6293.405, "text": "Counselor, the the answer to your question is Councillor Shabot has brought this notice of motion. He worked on it in consultation with the Calgary Police Service." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 6295.205, "end": 6301.485, "text": "Okay it just seems like he was working in consultation with them not the other way around but I'll leave it there. I'll wait for debate with Chabot." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 6302.385, "end": 6305.965, "text": "Thank you. Over to Councillor Shabot to address in his close." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 6309.265, "end": 6312.645, "text": "Thank you, and thank you for being here for to answer questions and" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 6313.085, "end": 6337.985, "text": "Um in to answer a question I believe that one of my colleagues has is um they brought me a report of of findings and and the amount of work that they had undertaken in the last number of years since 2023. Uh that identified that they had 23 calls uh for shoplifting and only 17 percent. Of course, this is a data that they had accumulated, and they wanted to know whether or not" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 6338.285, "end": 6340.365, "text": "I thought there might be something that I could do." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 6340.785, "end": 6342.005, "text": "And so I also" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 6342.265, "end": 6347.425, "text": "uh communicated with the law department as to whether or not this is something that was actually within our authority to do." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 6347.725, "end": 6348.585, "text": "And they said" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 6349.105, "end": 6355.645, "text": "shoplifting under the criminal code, whether it's five under $5,000 or under $100, still falls under criminal code." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 6355.945, "end": 6380.805, "text": "What I'm looking to do here through this engagement process is to see if there's some other mechanism that we might have, such as maybe possession of stolen property on public lands. Whilst it doesn't say that in the notice of motion, the intent here is to look at what options there might be that we could address through a bylaw, which it would not be as litigious in nature as a criminal code charge. So to your point." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 6381.005, "end": 6382.265, "text": "How is this going to save?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 6382.505, "end": 6426.425, "text": "It's going to save time. It's going to save countless hours of time. As you heard, over 10,000 hours in my notice of motion was identified. It could potentially be as many as 12,000 hours of time saved from a processing perspective. We have something that that other municipalities may not have, which is a community core divergence divergence program, which would uh enable some accountability and some alternative measures to be utilized. And again, I I'm not I don't want to try and presuppose the outcome of this, but this is also going to help to raise awareness with other orders of government, federal government, provincial government, as to as to the challenges that we face, and at the very least." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 6426.665, "end": 6432.605, "text": "get this on the table for them to engage us in looking at what amendments could possibly be made." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 6432.765, "end": 6453.785, "text": "Uh to either the criminal code or even to provincial uh regulations or legislation that could enable us or enable our enforcement officers to maybe enact or act on this initiative. This is not just a Calgary issue. This is, as you heard, this is something that's occurring uh throughout the country." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 6454.165, "end": 6456.185, "text": "And and so many" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 6456.445, "end": 6469.045, "text": "uh enforcement folks, peace officers have been have been told to turn a blind eye to to this now, and and it's eroded public trust to the point where people have stopped reporting it. And we can't." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 6470.045, "end": 6491.105, "text": "We can't really be effective unless we have the tools to work with and we need to know where criminal activity is happening and how much criminal activity is happening. And this is this is a tool to to try and at least find solutions to that. So hope you'll at least support the motion to uh do some invest investigative work to see if there's something we can do to actually enact this." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 6491.685, "end": 6492.085, "text": "Close." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 6492.185, "end": 6495.705, "text": "Thank you, Councilor Shabot. Madam Clerk, let's please engage the evote" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 6496.625, "end": 6499.745, "text": "a notice of motion, community standards bylaw proposal. Shopping," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 6500.185, "end": 6501.705, "text": "shoplifting under $100." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 6516.645, "end": 6517.985, "text": "Counselor Ward, your vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 6517.985, "end": 6518.365, "text": "Yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 6518.445, "end": 6520.405, "text": "Thank you, Councillor Jameson. Your vote please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 6520.765, "end": 6521.305, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 6521.745, "end": 6523.305, "text": "Councilor Clark, your vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 6523.605, "end": 6524.245, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 6524.625, "end": 6527.925, "text": "Councilor Shabot, your vote, please. Thank you. Mayor Farkas, your vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 6528.265, "end": 6528.585, "text": "Yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 6530.505, "end": 6531.325, "text": "All the votes are in." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 6531.705, "end": 6533.405, "text": "Thank you. Please display the results." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 6540.485, "end": 6543.705, "text": "That motion is carried with Councillors Atkinson and Kelly opposed." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 6545.665, "end": 6547.785, "text": "All right, back to" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 6548.605, "end": 6552.225, "text": "I believe we are on items from officers of council administration committees." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 6552.965, "end": 6558.765, "text": "9.3.1 approach to the 2027 to 2023 or 2030" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 6559.045, "end": 6559.945, "text": "budget cycle." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 6589.205, "end": 6591.845, "text": "Good afternoon, Mayor and Council." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 6593.465, "end": 6594.965, "text": "We're nice and warmed up for you, Mr. Tucker." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 6598.125, "end": 6598.825, "text": "Alrighty then." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 6599.765, "end": 6615.865, "text": "So we have before you today a recommendation relating to the 2026 schedule with key milestones relating to the 2027 to 30 budget cycle. I have a presentation, but I can go direct to questions if you'd like." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 6616.925, "end": 6618.505, "text": "Oh let's see the uh presentation." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 6619.145, "end": 6619.745, "text": "Excellent." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 6620.545, "end": 6621.205, "text": "Excellent." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 6623.285, "end": 6624.165, "text": "Next slide, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 6626.045, "end": 6627.845, "text": "As mentioned, our recommendation." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 6628.505, "end": 6641.925, "text": "Is relatively straightforward, asking council to approve the 2026 schedule and key milestones required to deliver the 2027 to 2030 business plans and budgets. Next slide, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 6643.805, "end": 6668.845, "text": "This budget cycle represents an opportunity to take an intentional long-term approach to responding to council's direction and community priorities. Looking ahead to 2027 2030 allows administration to align investments to council priorities over the full business cycle, supporting more strategic decision making and clearer trade offs. It is important to recognize" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 6669.305, "end": 6681.885, "text": "That developing a four-year budget is fundamentally different from an adjustment year. The scope is broader, the planning horizon is longer, and the work requires deeper analysis, stronger coordination across the organization." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 6682.765, "end": 6697.565, "text": "Council engagement will occur throughout the year rather than within a short, concentrated window. This sustained involvement will support informed decision making as we move forward toward deliberations in November 2026." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 6698.325, "end": 6708.265, "text": "This process also builds on improvements made in 2025, particularly the shift to organizational structure-based budgeting and clear, more streamlined documents." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 6710.205, "end": 6711.085, "text": "Next slide, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 6713.265, "end": 6740.225, "text": "This slide outlines the respective roles of council, the executive leadership team, and administration in building the budget. Council is responsible for setting priorities and approving the budget. ELT plays a critical role in advising council and making recommendations by evaluating and prioritizing investment options. Administration is responsible for developing the budget and delivering services once approved." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 6741.365, "end": 6742.225, "text": "Next slide, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 6745.005, "end": 6773.145, "text": "Over the coming year, council engagement will occur through different meeting formats, each serving a distinct purpose. Formal council meetings are public and focused on debate, votes, and direction. Facilitated workshops are closed sessions designed to support learning, discussion, and exploration of options without formal decisions being made. Together, these touch points allow for both transparency and the depth of discussion needed for complex budget decisions." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 6775.005, "end": 6775.905, "text": "Next slide, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 6779.585, "end": 6782.145, "text": "This slide provides a high-level view of" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 6783.065, "end": 6788.045, "text": "the internal work underway within administration across both operating and capital budget." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 6788.665, "end": 6801.025, "text": "It outlines council's key touch points throughout 2026 when council will receive information, provide guidance, and make decisions that shape the 2027 to 2030 budget." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 6801.965, "end": 6811.745, "text": "Please note that the milestones we are seeking approval for are summarized in the top row of the slide, while the second and third rows are provided for information only." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 6813.345, "end": 6832.925, "text": "The administration is bringing multiple capital updates and reports to council and committee ahead of the June budget recommendations. On February 11th, the corporate asset management plan progress update was shared, which focused on improving asset data, condition assessments, and risk analysis to support better decision making." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 6833.725, "end": 6847.325, "text": "On March 11th, we will be bringing a progress update on the 10-year capital infrastructure plan, including the 10-year capital infrastructure needs assessments, and assessments for the 13 most capital-intensive service areas." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 6848.205, "end": 6853.545, "text": "Growth applications will also be coming to IPC the same day with capital implications." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 6854.305, "end": 6862.525, "text": "If approved for consideration in the budget, initial associated spending needs will be prioritized along with other operating capital requests." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 6863.385, "end": 6874.265, "text": "On April 15th, we will share information on the corporate capital prioritization framework. This includes outcomes, prioritization criteria, and infrastructure classifications." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 6875.465, "end": 6882.125, "text": "A further three to four growth applications are also anticipated in May, which will have capital implications." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 6883.085, "end": 6897.045, "text": "At the May 5th Executive Committee meeting, the long-range financial plan will be presented, and this plan helps set the financial context for committee and council ahead of the budget funding availability guidance session in July." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 6898.105, "end": 6907.325, "text": "On May 7th, we will present the integrated citywide 10-year capital infrastructure plan alongside the final corporate asset management plan." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 6908.305, "end": 6925.925, "text": "The 10 year capital infrastructure plan will outline proposed investments, sequencing, and risk reduction strategies across the organization. Together, these reports provide essential strategic context. Council requires to make informed budget decisions heading into the 2730 budget cycle." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 6926.925, "end": 6933.685, "text": "Later in May, Council will provide guidance on the budget, which directly informs ELT's recommendations in June." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 6934.405, "end": 6941.605, "text": "In July, Council will review budget proposals in a closed session, providing early feedback before the budget is finalized." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 6942.445, "end": 6948.185, "text": "In November, the full budget package will be released publicly, followed by deliberations week," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 6949.145, "end": 6950.505, "text": "singular week this year." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 6951.465, "end": 6957.965, "text": "Taken together, these touch points ensure council direction is integrated throughout the year in a coordinated and sequenced way." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 6959.285, "end": 6960.125, "text": "Next slide, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 6963.465, "end": 6975.645, "text": "Public engagement is a key part of the city's budget planning process. It allows us to better understand Calgary's values and views on trade offs as we develop the 27 30 business plan and budgets." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 6976.445, "end": 6989.245, "text": "This information is one of several inputs into the budget process, alongside council direction and existing corporate research and reports, like the Survey of Calgarians, to inform ELT and council decision making." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 6990.045, "end": 6999.445, "text": "Our approach is to listen and learn. We are asking Calgaryans to share feedback and ideas to help guide planning and decision making for administration and council." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 7001.085, "end": 7016.645, "text": "We've designated participation, designed participation to be easy and accessible, with two main ways to take part online through an engage portal and in person through 14 pop up events across the city, one scheduled in each ward." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 7017.545, "end": 7026.065, "text": "Pop-ups are designed to be approachable and accessible, giving people a chance to learn about the budget process, ask questions, and share feedback in person." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 7027.205, "end": 7033.945, "text": "We'll support this with a robust communication and marketing effort to drive broad awareness and inclusive participation." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 7034.725, "end": 7051.705, "text": "Engagement now runs from March 18th to April 15th, as opposed to April 8th on the slide. We've extended it by adding an additional week to create more opportunities for pop ups in a busy weekend in busy weekend locations and increase in person reach out to Calgarians." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 7052.645, "end": 7061.885, "text": "Results of these will be shared at council in a public session titled What We Heard in July as part of the broader budget process." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 7063.585, "end": 7064.405, "text": "Next slide, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 7066.345, "end": 7078.545, "text": "And in closing, administration is recommending council approval of the 2026 schedule with key milestones for delivering the 27 to 30 business plans and budgets. And with that, we're happy to take questions." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 7078.985, "end": 7080.725, "text": "Thank you, uh Deputy Mayor, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 7081.245, "end": 7096.265, "text": "Thank you so much, and thank you so much for that presentation. You know, and as I read through that this whole report, one thing that was very noticeably, except for one slide, was about the voice of counsel. And we are coming through with our strategic priorities in the next few weeks." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 7096.625, "end": 7105.425, "text": "And lots of the conversation, the timelines, and I recognize when you're doing a $5 billion budget, uh, it takes more than a week or two to get the analysis together and do the work." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 7106.665, "end": 7107.185, "text": "Just" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 7107.525, "end": 7114.965, "text": "walk me through maybe the slides where we speak of the 10-year plan and the capital prioritization. How will the voice of council be brought in?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 7115.485, "end": 7116.805, "text": "And is it even realistic?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 7117.545, "end": 7122.085, "text": "And I guess I ask, are those council, excuse me, those dollars, have they already been essentially?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 7122.285, "end": 7130.385, "text": "Written in that council's voice will not have an impact on those numbers, recognizing it takes months, if not years, to formulate capital spends and operating costs." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 7131.465, "end": 7134.145, "text": "How will you incorporate that voice that comes? We haven't seen it," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 7135.185, "end": 7136.245, "text": "the public hasn't seen it." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 7136.765, "end": 7140.465, "text": "How are we going to incorporate our voice as council to that tenure and capital plan?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 7141.845, "end": 7257.765, "text": "So I'll first of all speak to the overall budget process, and then in terms of the capital, I can start, and perhaps uh Mr. Thompson wants to jump in on that as well. But to start off, um you're correct, the budget process for a four-year cycle is a rather complicated and long event. And to that end, um we've already started with some of the math underneath existing operations, looking at some of the assumptions, everything from inflation to uh growth in salaries, et cetera. And those are being built right now. And I believe I mentioned in an earlier conversation about the budget that we would be looking at uh direction of council uh in terms from your strategies, uh, from some of the strategic elements and building overlays. And whether those overlays are positive and they add on contributing to new or enhanced services, or whether they are a reduction in terms of a reduction of services or doing things differently, those would be overlays. And so that's really the idea of how we start to build this out. In terms of the capital, um, we look at the capital uh from my perspective in a 10-year horizon and looking to extend actually beyond in the future. But the 10 years really gives us an understanding of what's coming up relative to specifically our debt capacity, our debt load, how we're going to fund the servicing of the debt, how we attribute uh some of the funding to that servicing of the debt, and whether it's utility-based or whether it's um in our main tax based area, and how we apply dollars to that. So, in terms of of where it plays in, um that's functionally how it plays in. But at any point, um, and we mentioned this as we were going through um the budget adjustments in November of last year, the direction of council um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 7258.125, "end": 7271.365, "text": "Can occur at any time in the process. And so whether we continue down a service road or we continue down a particular avenue, that direction, our first response would be to" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 7271.985, "end": 7306.625, "text": "determine what the costs of that direction are, whether they're positive or negative, what would be the impact for some items that have not started and have really just been at the planning stage? Any type of curtailment would have a lower cost. If we have something that's more in flight or partially towards completion, those would have a larger uh impact and potentially a larger cost. So it all the way through these stages, um those plans can have um the direction of council um overlaid on top of them. I don't know if uh Mr. Thomas, you wanted to add anything?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 7308.825, "end": 7310.705, "text": "Yeah, thanks for the question. I would just add in" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 7311.685, "end": 7320.145, "text": "uh this is the first time we've tried uh this process. So it's a pilot uh that we're working on with you. We're going to learn together as we go along." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 7320.385, "end": 7322.605, "text": "Counselor YS had really championed" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 7322.905, "end": 7328.985, "text": "uh through the last council us moving into bringing these 10-year capital uh plans forward. So what you'll see in" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 7329.245, "end": 7332.705, "text": "March is really the 10-year needs list from all of those" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 7333.825, "end": 7338.285, "text": "council approved plans that have been put together. Take a game plan, route ahead," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 7338.585, "end": 7345.365, "text": "connect all of the plans. We're pulling everything together that council has seen previously over the next" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 7345.865, "end": 7347.665, "text": "decade," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 7348.065, "end": 7359.025, "text": "and as well as some of the needs from asset management, et cetera. So March will just be those lists. It's really the needs and wants that we're establishing. It's not a prioritized list." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 7359.285, "end": 7364.165, "text": "April will be at the Infrastructure Planning Committee talking about the process to do that prioritization." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 7364.685, "end": 7371.585, "text": "May we'll be back with here's what the draft prioritization looks like based on the conversation we had" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 7371.865, "end": 7375.285, "text": "at April committee, based on the needs lists you saw in March," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 7375.465, "end": 7380.005, "text": "based on uh council's uh strategic plan that you'll be sending to us," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 7380.205, "end": 7381.785, "text": "uh, that will be informing that." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 7382.085, "end": 7385.305, "text": "And then as Mr. Tucker said, that all rolls forward into" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 7385.605, "end": 7390.365, "text": "the budget process. And so council will have a number of touch points throughout the process" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 7390.685, "end": 7392.485, "text": "to" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 7393.105, "end": 7400.845, "text": "give us your feedback and to set your direction that you want to go on this process. So by no means is this administration saying this is baked right now." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 7401.165, "end": 7402.625, "text": "The other piece would be" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 7402.785, "end": 7406.925, "text": "this 10 year plan that we're bringing forward," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 7407.165, "end": 7413.625, "text": "our goal is to bring it forward and update it every year. So to have an annual rolling 10 year plan. We haven't done this before again." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 7413.845, "end": 7419.165, "text": "So we're gonna learn. This is a growing year for us all. Learning, it's not gonna be perfect. So I" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 7419.485, "end": 7420.485, "text": "really want to make sure" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 7420.805, "end": 7426.905, "text": "you're aware. Like we're going to take your feedback, we're gonna incorporate it, we're gonna evolve it as we go forward. So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 7427.125, "end": 7431.025, "text": "hopefully that helps uh reassure you that we are not bringing a fully baked" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 7431.285, "end": 7438.545, "text": "uh plan where you do not have a voice. This is your plan. Um we're listening to you and we're building it with you as we're going forward." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 7438.705, "end": 7465.085, "text": "I love that. That ten-year plan will be updated every year. I think that's super important as priorities. So that's important also to confirm that within that tenure plan or any plan prior to our opinion, timelines on capital spends will not be incorporated. Can you confirm that? So any report, it won't recommend, I don't know, an overpass in a certain area would be recommended beyond the four year cycle. So it'll be timeline agnostic. It'll just say building a bridge here, a billion dollars, and not have a recommended timeline prior to hearing our priorities of council." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 7465.525, "end": 7476.905, "text": "Yeah, we're working through how we represent that right now. So there's some things as we think about if I go into the water line of service, when do we need a new water treatment plant, water pipes connecting to that treatment plant, et cetera?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 7477.145, "end": 7482.265, "text": "How do we show something like that? An overpass is something different, a bit more standalone piece of infrastructure." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 7482.465, "end": 7486.865, "text": "But it's still driven by community build-out around it, traffic needs, et cetera. So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 7487.085, "end": 7492.065, "text": "trying to think through how do we show that as we're going forward, but definitely it's uh it's not" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 7492.265, "end": 7495.225, "text": "before listening to you and hearing what your priorities are." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 7495.365, "end": 7497.585, "text": "And then figuring out how we integrate that. And so" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 7497.985, "end": 7504.965, "text": "it seems as we're working through it and developing it right now. It's a bit different for the different asset types. So we're trying to figure out how do we show that to you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 7505.245, "end": 7508.585, "text": "We're also trying to figure out how do we reflect that discussion that we had" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 7509.885, "end": 7519.845, "text": "at our last infrastructure planning committee on the criticality of assets and making sure that we're flagging to you in the needs list. These are the assets that we flagged as." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 7520.085, "end": 7532.145, "text": "Poor, very poor, and critical. So that you know we should really be investing in those right away as we're thinking through this and making that decision. So trying to figure that out again, this will be the learning process that we're going through together." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 7532.565, "end": 7560.545, "text": "Yeah, just in my mind it's very important that timeline because once it gets baked, uh it's very difficult for Calgaryans to come off that because the scenario saying that overpass would be built in the 10-year plan and that'll be baked in and now it takes sort of a yeoman's job to pull it back, and now we become a bit as horse trading. So the flexibility that would be in there would be very appreciated, just given that if we set a date, those are hard things, uh particularly in the public domain. And and maybe just one comment about engagement. We're if you go to slide seven, I think, of attachment one." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 7561.665, "end": 7564.525, "text": "Timeline one, maybe back one. Oh no, that's it. Uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 7564.825, "end": 7566.745, "text": "yeah, this one both interchanging. So," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 7568.085, "end": 7587.045, "text": "and again back to timelines. You know, we have an engagement portal, April 8th, what we hear from Calgarians, the report back in July or August. The budget's fully baked. Um, you know, maybe it's 95%. We still have to vote and debate, of course. Maybe just talk through that to Calgarians. That sorry, go to the next slide. I just uh my apologies. Thank you, Madam Clerk." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 7587.745, "end": 7594.845, "text": "Yeah, July 27th, Councilman receives what we heard report. What priorities of Calgarians? Maybe just walk through that. I recognize we can't go back in time," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 7595.385, "end": 7602.945, "text": "but how do we ensure, and Calgarians ensure that this isn't just going through the paces, that the budget is basically fully baked? We have a report." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 7603.705, "end": 7613.365, "text": "Sorry, Calgarians, you wanted to go left, we're going right. Just maybe walk through that. That four or five months after our numbers are final, generally finalized, we're gonna hear what Calgarians want in that report." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 7614.785, "end": 7620.585, "text": "So when we look at uh public engagement, we'll be hearing back uh that report on July 28th" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 7621.265, "end": 7636.065, "text": "in terms of what we've heard um from Calgarians from uh that particular public engagement. And um I guess from the perspective of what we've been hearing in the past and what we continue to hear, um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 7637.065, "end": 7685.225, "text": "I would expect that a portion of what we've heard in the past will be represented in going forward. And there will be different items in addition or reducing from what's been heard previously. And I I would I'm smiling when you were speaking about being fully baked. I appreciate your confidence in us. But by the end of July, the budget will not be fully baked. We to go down that avenue, we will still be looking to source flour to put that together. So there is uh some very heavy lifting um as we move through the months of August, September, and into October in terms of what do those changes um I refer to some of those as overlays. Um, what do those look like for us to be able, and again." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 7686.205, "end": 7724.025, "text": "Different strategies and different directions carry different complexities. So for certain items, it may be that we can have the team do the analytics, and in a very short period of time, we can have an understanding of this particular idea or strategy will cost this amount in these years, or a reduction of cost in these years. Others are more complex. So to that end, we'll be utilizing that time to put those together and we'll be reflecting the direction of council and as well these items that we're taking away from the public engagement." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 7724.445, "end": 7726.825, "text": "Thanks so much. Looking forward to the process. Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 7727.485, "end": 7728.005, "text": "Mr. Mayor." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 7730.865, "end": 7732.585, "text": "Thank you. Over to Councilor Kelly, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 7733.705, "end": 7751.665, "text": "Thank you. Um just wanted to uh clerks if you could flip to slide four on here. Uh just wanted to ask you just a little bit of the sequencing here. Um the tax rate or more speci yeah, the tax rate that will be set in the approve the budget line, is that correct?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 7756.505, "end": 7758.225, "text": "So when we um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 7758.505, "end": 7759.225, "text": "just" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 7759.905, "end": 7834.965, "text": "Around that description of approving of the tax rate. So when the budget comes forward after reflecting the direction of council, the voices of Calgarians, it will have, I expect, a change to the amount of tax revenue that we will, if approved, be directed to collect. And so really the approval is around and focused on the amount of tax revenue, and the tax rate is just the reverse calculation of what that turns into. So for clarity, when we say it's approved at a certain percentage, the actual approval is to increase revenue, tax revenue by this amount in a particular year, and it reflects itself as a tax rate overall that we use just for indicative conversations. But then also once we finalize the actual role on assessed value, then we're only able to calculate and determine what an individual rate would be by property class. So at that time of approve, we'd really be looking for approval of the budget. And that specifically would be the approval of the tax revenue that we are authorized then to collect." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 7835.525, "end": 7882.165, "text": "I really appreciate that answer because it it sets me up nicely for the question that I actually want to ask you here, which is I'm wondering if you can just walk me through the thinking in terms of setting this process for setting that tax rate later on in the process versus starting with that at the very beginning, so that we're we're we're starting with the fiscal capacity of Calgarians to begin with before we go through the process. You know, I I I may want a pony, but I don't make pony money. So I'm I'm curious in the process of where you actually uh where we set, like what the what the thinking was in terms of not starting with the end in mind, which I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, is actually a uh a recommended best practice of the government uh fiscal officers association." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 7882.765, "end": 7976.745, "text": "That's an excellent question. So, in the past, there have been a lot of conversations around what is the envelope or what is the amount of change for a particular year. And our takeaway from conversations from November with yourselves and going forward was really not to limit. And I think the some of the dialogue was to ourselves and to other people who were here was don't limit yourselves. What do you actually need to deliver service? And so that has been rolled into this concept. And as we look at this, it'll be gathering those back. And so when we come back and have a conversation on May the 26th, that'll be to the extent that we have that analysis completed, we won't have it all completed, but that'll start to give us an indication of where we're at relative to that need coming up from the organization, whether it's from CPS, fire, things that were approved one time last year, that now would be in a conversation for yourselves whether or not these should be funded from base or whether they should be discontinued. All of those would be inside that area. So it really was a conscious decision based on our recent past about not having that limiter and being able to see what is the demand to deliver service. And then that would come back to yourselves for in that conversation about what you would like to move forward or what would you like to not have go forward." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 7977.165, "end": 8009.845, "text": "I do appreciate the uh not wanting to limit us uh uh thing, but it it is us limiting us, right? In terms of if we uh because I mean this could come in anywhere from you know a a tax decrease to a 100% increase, sort of sort of thing when we look at this. And that's a really big window for administration to look at when bringing forward proposals for us to consider. And certainly we had heard uh sort of previously around the idea of uh some folks didn't feel that they could ask for more because they didn't think that it would get." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 8010.225, "end": 8011.685, "text": "approved for more" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 8012.165, "end": 8027.325, "text": "but that's the opposite of what you're what you're saying there which is no no dream dream big think about the things that that that you have there so I just wanted to be really clear like we did examine the other option of setting the setting the amount right off the bat and it is a recommendation from administration to" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 8028.585, "end": 8030.165, "text": "set the amount at the end." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 8030.605, "end": 8077.325, "text": "Well, we believe we're um aligned with the conversations and the direction that came uh through the last budget deliberations about not limiting and allowing council to see what there is based on service delivery. So I I wouldn't necessarily say we challenged people to dream, um, but we did talk about what would you need and and sort of an extension of these conversations, what would you need for service delivery? And that really was uh the difference, especially going into four years. Um, if memory serves, the conversation was more about not limiting going into four years versus when we had the one year or the last year of the four year cycle. So that really is the the basis going into this." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 8077.405, "end": 8083.865, "text": "That's fair. I I I will just say I think that we had had previous conversations whether it's here or audit committee about" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 8084.145, "end": 8135.165, "text": "Bringing options to us, and what we're seeing here is only one recommendation, whereas I think that might have been something that some of my colleagues might have been interested in pursuing that direction instead. But uh, could we flip forward to page seven in this particular slide deck if you don't mind? Recognize I only have 40 seconds left here. Uh approving this, 14 pop-ups, uh, one per ward. I just wanted to throw it out there. Uh, ward four has Nosehill Park right in the middle of it, so it's actually effectively two areas. So a second one in ward four would would probably help a lot. I'll throw that out to the the public engagement folks. And then uh one last question here, just in the timeline. Uh uh, we're looking at March 18th to April 8th for the engagement. When are we setting the when are we scheduled to have the council priorities completed for?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 8136.865, "end": 8156.865, "text": "Uh so just in terms we have changed that uh timeline to extend to April fifteenth, so it's a longer catchment time. And I'm not I don't have the date in terms of when council will conclude on their priorities. I know there's another strategic council this week, um, but I'm not entirely sure of when the conclusion will be." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 8157.945, "end": 8159.605, "text": "Does anyone else in the mid have that answer?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 8160.125, "end": 8172.725, "text": "I believe it's uh Counselor, I believe it's early March, middle of March. Is that uh I believe that's the document that's gonna be presented to us. Although there's an updated document tomorrow that uh we're gonna be receiving for a temperature check." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 8173.125, "end": 8183.145, "text": "Maybe in my last four seconds here, I'll just ask a question of um are we able like we're going to be setting our priorities before we hear for Calgarians. So what are we engaging on here?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 8188.985, "end": 8195.705, "text": "So, in terms of and not to stretch you over your time, but uh this engagement is for the public." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 8198.105, "end": 8217.425, "text": "Yeah, what I'm asking here is just like what what at the engagement, what will they be being asked feedback on? Like I don't want to get too technical into the management side of this, but like is it their feedback on our priorities? Is it more open ended? Just like what are we actually engaging Calgarians on" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 8217.745, "end": 8218.945, "text": "at these sessions?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 8219.745, "end": 8224.825, "text": "Well, essentially we're we're asking Calgarians for their feedback and thoughts um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 8225.705, "end": 8236.065, "text": "around what should be a focus area, what we should be considering, what council should be considering for guiding that budget decision making and that process. And then in" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 8237.385, "end": 8250.685, "text": "alignment with that or hopefully alignment will be all of your experiences from when you were uh going door to door and what was heard and continuing from then till now and it's really bringing all of that together." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 8251.625, "end": 8254.525, "text": "Yeah, I'm just not sure the timeline's lining up there for me." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 8254.845, "end": 8255.665, "text": "I'm out of time though." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 8256.085, "end": 8266.725, "text": "Thanks, Counselor. I'll just add uh the uh by the end of July we'll have that had that what we heard report, which allows counselors to participate through the budget process in addition to what we'll hear uh through the uh public hearing." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 8267.265, "end": 8267.905, "text": "Counselor Shabot." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 8270.085, "end": 8270.825, "text": "Thank you. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 8272.425, "end": 8280.985, "text": "Uh uh, do we anticipate that we're gonna have a high level of granularity in the budget um documents when they come before us, or is it gonna be more high level?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 8281.345, "end": 8287.545, "text": "I.e., we're gonna do all the road resurfacing in this area and not this area." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 8287.805, "end": 8294.005, "text": "Uh we're gonna do this interchange, not that interchange. Like what level of granularity can we expect to see" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 8294.565, "end": 8300.885, "text": "in the four year business plan? Because we can't approve four year budget. We can only approve a four year business plan and only one year" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 8301.045, "end": 8301.785, "text": "budget." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 8302.445, "end": 8306.985, "text": "And will it also include things like what are projected" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 8307.405, "end": 8308.485, "text": "tax or" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 8310.465, "end": 8311.565, "text": "on monetary" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 8311.945, "end": 8323.685, "text": "needs on a go forward basis? Like we used to talk about indicative rates and we projected it based on population increase and inflation. But we're focusing more on deliverables now." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 8324.165, "end": 8325.785, "text": "But deliverables" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 8326.065, "end": 8326.885, "text": "can be" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 8327.085, "end": 8331.085, "text": "then summarized into a projected tax increase unless you" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 8331.505, "end": 8335.345, "text": "unless you know exactly what kind of federal and or provincial funds you're going to get." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 8336.665, "end": 8338.145, "text": "So um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 8338.765, "end": 8389.505, "text": "I'll uh what I think the question was is that yes, I expect that as we put together the four-year plan, we will have the required change in tax revenue that would be required to move us through those four years based on the direction and the initiatives that we have going into those four years. And so things like inflation, growth, uh, when certain programs would start. Um, not all programs, depending on the strategy, will start right at the beginning of year one. Some of them may be delayed due to planning, et cetera. And those would be reflected in our assumptions that we would need for increases in tax revenue, as well as some maybe high level assumptions around fees, changes in fees, and as well as our investment income." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 8390.265, "end": 8400.085, "text": "So as we know, um things are very fluid in nature, um, and some things that are identified currently that are uh not within the tenure capital uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 8400.505, "end": 8416.105, "text": "plan all of a sudden get accelerated because of say growth. Uh prime example of that would be the Memorial Drive flyover, which wasn't in the Ken ten year capital plan uh just three years ago, and now it's starting next or starting this year." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 8416.505, "end": 8428.725, "text": "Um again because of growth and to accommodate that growth we've had to accelerate the plan on that on that overpass. And again, the same argument can be made with 16th Avenue and" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 8429.045, "end": 8436.485, "text": "and uh in 68th Street again. It's it's at grade intersection right now, but there's so much congestion there, even though" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 8436.865, "end": 8438.085, "text": "uh council to approve a" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 8438.445, "end": 8439.665, "text": "minor makeover there." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 8440.125, "end": 8445.425, "text": "I'm getting a lot of push from the community to have a grade separated interchange, which has already been looked at." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 8445.605, "end": 8446.625, "text": "Like how" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 8447.345, "end": 8452.385, "text": "How baked is this plan going to be in the 10-year capital plan" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 8452.825, "end": 8455.865, "text": "and still allow flexibility to be able to" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 8456.285, "end": 8459.045, "text": "uh change based on the need?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 8460.205, "end": 8462.205, "text": "I'm happy to start on a" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 8462.745, "end": 8464.385, "text": "part of the technical response." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 8464.605, "end": 8469.325, "text": "Uh, you've hit the nail on the head to the conversation we've had with you before" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 8469.745, "end": 8472.565, "text": "that we're having with industry and community right now" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 8473.085, "end": 8473.685, "text": "on" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 8474.085, "end": 8476.605, "text": "the acceleration of the growth in the city of Calgary." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 8477.185, "end": 8484.485, "text": "A lot of our plans were based on a population growth of 20,000 people per year. When we grow at a hundred thousand people." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 8485.365, "end": 8486.145, "text": "One year," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 8486.725, "end": 8499.285, "text": "you're eating up five years of growth in one year. And so that accelerates the need for a lot of services. That puts pressure on our operations because we're delivering significantly more with the same dollars." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 8499.585, "end": 8502.165, "text": "And those new capital projects are required right now." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 8502.645, "end": 8508.965, "text": "And so we have been eating through, burning through that uh planned needless, and we are behind." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 8509.425, "end": 8511.885, "text": "That's why our capital growth has increased from" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 8512.465, "end": 8518.185, "text": "Approximately one point one deliver 1.1 billion dollars delivered in 2028, uh 2022." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 8518.605, "end": 8526.425, "text": "To this year, we will be over $4 billion of capital work delivered. That's almost a four times increase in five years." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 8526.905, "end": 8531.065, "text": "It's delivering, I think we have 18 parks under construction this year," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 8531.225, "end": 8535.525, "text": "three fire stations, over 300 kilometers of road resurfacing," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 8535.925, "end": 8540.765, "text": "uh, over a billion and a half dollars in water and wastewater treatment and stormwater." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 8541.185, "end": 8546.145, "text": "That's upgrades to the Pine Creek water treatment, a wastewater treatment plant." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 8546.525, "end": 8555.165, "text": "Obviously, the North Calgary Servicing Project, South Calgary Servicing Project, we have been accelerating all across all of our asset types." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 8555.785, "end": 8559.045, "text": "What we want to do with this 10 year needs list and the 10 year plan" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 8559.565, "end": 8565.705, "text": "is to have that projection out and then annually be updating it. So if we do really start to accelerate through growth," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 8566.045, "end": 8568.165, "text": "we will be updating where we need to go." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 8568.645, "end": 8571.585, "text": "Your question on how are we going to fund these?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 8571.965, "end": 8572.845, "text": "Mr. Tucker" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 8574.745, "end": 8590.325, "text": "identified we'll show you what we can fund with the the constraints that we have. In the past, we have also partially funded some capital projects so that the city's money was put in and we use that to seek funding" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 8590.545, "end": 8599.205, "text": "from other sources, other governments, so that our our cash was in the project and we could go to them and say that we were already funded here." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 8599.925, "end": 8630.785, "text": "Other areas we will identify those needs and then if those funding sources change, if priorities change from other funders and we can uh we can attract additional funding, we would bring that forward to council at that point in time. And so having this list gives us that portfolio projects to really look at as we're going forward. But that's these projects are always in service of delivering service for Calgaryans. They're not just things standing alone on their own, it's to deliver services that council has set." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 8631.065, "end": 8634.605, "text": "What service levels do you want and what services do you want us to focus on?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 8635.765, "end": 8642.925, "text": "How much certainty do we have as far as what line of sight we're going to have on to federal or provincial funds by the time this comes forward?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 8645.385, "end": 8654.565, "text": "We would say that certainty changes every time the province and federal government bring forward a new budget, and so we work within the programs that we understand." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_22", "start": 8654.705, "end": 8668.505, "text": "We really try to match our priorities based on the funding streams that they have, and it also creates the advocacy platform for council and administration to go and talk to other orders of government to seek additional funding." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 8669.265, "end": 8684.245, "text": "On the fiscal uh gap that exists uh because of provincial legislation, there's a bunch of recommendations on additional funding mechanisms. Uh and how much work are we doing as far as preparing for advocacy on some of those alternative sources of revenue?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 8686.785, "end": 8801.065, "text": "So, in terms of our advocacy, I would say first is understanding what our needs are. So, as we're putting together this 10-year capital plan, I think that gives us a much better alignment of what we see in our future coming up in the next near and mid and long term. And it better positions us to go forward to the province or federally around what they start to speak about or what they start to issue as possible funding options, then we know how we'll better align with those. So I would say this is our first step into that is to be able to say, or one of the early steps is to be able to really understand what our needs are going to be as it is right now. I think that was the item there. So what we're doing is as we go through the timeline and as we go through gathering information from yourselves and from citizens, we really uh aim this to be that as we head into November, this is the best information we have based on the inputs we have in the current environment. And so will things change? Uh definitely they'll change. And really, as we go into the November of 27, uh will be an opportunity for council to look and say, what's different, what new opportunities have presented themselves, what's changed in our environment, and what would you like to do as an adjustment or change as we go into the next year? So to the to the extent we have, we try to do the best four year we can based on the information, but four years is a long duration from a planning perspective in a world that is somewhat volatile. So to that end, there are um gateways built in um every November for those adjustments, but we all try to put it together to the best we can uh with the information we have." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 8801.525, "end": 8816.845, "text": "I guess my last question is is there any way that we can look at those um recommendations that came out of that 2024 report on alternative funding sources and determine which ones council in is interested in pursuing?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 8818.105, "end": 8850.205, "text": "We can definitely bring that back as part of uh some of the information um for yourselves. It could be as early as I'm looking down here. I'm not looking back at the people who'll be doing the work. Uh possibly around uh May 26th when we have a conversation about um council guidance. Some of those potentialities might fit in well with that conversation about what we have more control over, what we have less control over, and what is pure advocacy that would would go ahead." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 8850.805, "end": 8858.145, "text": "Yeah, like vehicle registration, syntaxes, a share of that would be nice. Anyway, so I have no further time right now, so thanks." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 8861.145, "end": 8862.625, "text": "Thank you, Councilor." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 8863.545, "end": 8865.005, "text": "Counselor Shabot, did you want to move the item?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 8865.225, "end": 8866.045, "text": "Uh the" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 8866.245, "end": 8866.745, "text": "queue is up." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 8867.365, "end": 8868.125, "text": "Anyone else on this?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 8868.805, "end": 8871.525, "text": "It's been moved by Councilor Shabot, second by uh Councilor Yule." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 8873.325, "end": 8876.265, "text": "All right, I'm gonna call the question, Madam Clerk. Let's uh please engage the e vote." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 8897.105, "end": 8898.665, "text": "Councilor Johnston, your vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 8899.145, "end": 8899.505, "text": "Yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 8899.665, "end": 8901.385, "text": "Thank you. Mayor Farkas, your vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 8901.445, "end": 8901.745, "text": "Yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 8901.985, "end": 8902.485, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 8903.085, "end": 8903.865, "text": "All the votes are in." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 8904.625, "end": 8905.745, "text": "Please display the results." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 8914.205, "end": 8919.125, "text": "On the uh 2026 uh key dates and milestones, the motion is c passed uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 8919.485, "end": 8921.585, "text": "rather is carried unanimously 15 to 0." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 8922.465, "end": 8924.365, "text": "That concludes 9.3.1." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 8924.705, "end": 8930.025, "text": "I believe we're on 9.3.2 appointments to council committees and boards, commissions, and committees." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_19", "start": 8936.145, "end": 8957.405, "text": "Good afternoon, Mayor Farkas and members of council. My name is Jeremy Fraser. I am the Deputy City Clerk for Council and Governance Services. This report is a report brought by the City Clerk's Office on a quarterly basis to fill midterm vacancies on council committees and boards, commissions, and committees. Happy to proceed with the presentation today or take questions, whatever is council's preference." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 8957.965, "end": 8959.745, "text": "Any questions on this, Council?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 8962.705, "end": 8965.625, "text": "All right, seeing none, uh may I please have a mover and seconder." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 8966.705, "end": 8969.065, "text": "Moved by Councilor McLean, seconded by Councilor Clark." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 8969.625, "end": 8970.665, "text": "Any debate on this item?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 8972.925, "end": 8975.645, "text": "Seeing none, uh Madam Clerkless, please engage the evote." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 8976.245, "end": 8977.005, "text": "You're off. Uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 8977.005, "end": 8978.885, "text": "I had a lengthy moving debate." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 8980.045, "end": 8981.545, "text": "it's too late. I've got the question." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 8981.545, "end": 8981.865, "text": "Debate." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 8982.105, "end": 8983.885, "text": "Yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 8984.845, "end": 8986.665, "text": "Oh, darn it. I'm I'm so sorry," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 8986.885, "end": 8987.525, "text": "Councilor McLean." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 8988.625, "end": 8988.885, "text": "All right." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 8989.505, "end": 8992.045, "text": "Okay. The uh recommendations are all at the top." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 8993.125, "end": 8994.125, "text": "We'll give just a moment." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 8995.865, "end": 8999.725, "text": "And I should note that the uh it was the recommendation after amendment that was moved by" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9000.205, "end": 9001.985, "text": "Councilor McLean and second by Councilor Clark." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 9004.005, "end": 9009.225, "text": "We're just going to remove after amendment, Mayor Farkas. We had prepared it in the event that you wanted to move into closed." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9009.525, "end": 9009.925, "text": "Okay." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 9013.225, "end": 9016.745, "text": "Oh, it was to remove it. So sorry. Okay, so that is correct. Thanks." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9019.105, "end": 9021.245, "text": "Thank you, team. Let's uh please engage the U vote." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 9033.425, "end": 9034.605, "text": "Mayor Farkas, your vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9035.625, "end": 9035.945, "text": "Yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 9036.165, "end": 9036.525, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 9037.245, "end": 9038.065, "text": "All the votes are in." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9038.825, "end": 9040.345, "text": "Thank you. Please display the results." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9046.685, "end": 9049.485, "text": "And on the appointments, that motion is carried 15 to 0." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9050.485, "end": 9057.265, "text": "We're on to 9.4 committee reports, starting with uh 9.4.1 N Max 2026 boring request" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9059.085, "end": 9060.045, "text": "and proposed bylaws." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9060.525, "end": 9061.085, "text": "Take us away." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_30", "start": 9061.445, "end": 9067.265, "text": "Thank you, Mayor, members of council. There is a short presentation, but if you'd like, we can move straight to questions if you'd prefer." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9067.885, "end": 9069.405, "text": "Any questions, colleagues?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9074.045, "end": 9075.845, "text": "Over to Councilor Shabot, please to move." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 9076.765, "end": 9079.625, "text": "No, I don't have any questions. Um probably won't surprise you. I've" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 9080.085, "end": 9085.185, "text": "been through this many, many times, and uh this is part of the regulated part of the business." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 9085.485, "end": 9086.465, "text": "It is uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 9087.185, "end": 9091.385, "text": "it's a tax or self-supported debt that doesn't impact our" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 9091.645, "end": 9093.245, "text": "our maximum allowable debt," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 9094.045, "end": 9095.925, "text": "even though it may impact our finances." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 9102.565, "end": 9112.285, "text": "Anyways, this is uh an up to um and if there is a potential for relinquishment of uh any of these amounts in the future it would it will come back to us and we're now gonna go to" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 9112.505, "end": 9115.025, "text": "straight to three readings of the bylaw, right? As opposed to" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 9115.185, "end": 9116.265, "text": "first reading only. So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9116.485, "end": 9116.765, "text": "That's correct." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 9116.765, "end": 9119.865, "text": "anyways, uh I said it's part of the regulated part of the business." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 9120.485, "end": 9120.905, "text": "Uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 9121.625, "end": 9124.385, "text": "it should have no consequence as far as us voting for this. So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 9124.705, "end": 9125.925, "text": "hopefully council can support it." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9127.425, "end": 9130.145, "text": "Thank you. That's been moved by Councilor Shabot. Seconded by" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9130.725, "end": 9131.465, "text": "Councilor Kelly." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9131.765, "end": 9134.765, "text": "Any uh debate on the recommendations uh up on the screen?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9138.745, "end": 9141.545, "text": "All right, seeing none, uh Madam Clerk, let's please engage the vote." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 9141.545, "end": 9141.885, "text": "Closed" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9144.085, "end": 9144.465, "text": "Closed." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 9154.125, "end": 9155.365, "text": "Mayor Farkas, your vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9155.665, "end": 9155.985, "text": "Yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 9156.985, "end": 9157.705, "text": "All the votes are in." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9158.785, "end": 9160.165, "text": "All right, please display the results." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9165.865, "end": 9169.245, "text": "All right, on the uh recommendations, that motion is carried, 15 to 0." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9172.645, "end": 9176.165, "text": "All right, we will now go into the readings of the" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9176.825, "end": 9177.545, "text": "bylaw here." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9177.925, "end": 9181.825, "text": "All right, first reading of bylaw 1B 2026. Anyone opposed?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9183.425, "end": 9188.345, "text": "Hearing none, that is carried. Second reading of bylaw 1B 2026, anyone opposed?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9189.625, "end": 9194.305, "text": "Hearing none, that is carried. Authorization for third reading of bylaw 1B 2026. Anyone opposed?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9195.145, "end": 9196.825, "text": "Hearing none, that is carried unanimously." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9197.205, "end": 9200.085, "text": "Third reading of bylaw 1B 2026, anyone opposed?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9200.725, "end": 9202.345, "text": "Hearing none, that is carried." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9202.905, "end": 9205.045, "text": "Now moving on to the next couple." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9205.525, "end": 9208.965, "text": "First reading of bylaw 2B 2026, anyone opposed?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9209.585, "end": 9210.805, "text": "Hearing none, that is carried." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9211.085, "end": 9214.465, "text": "Second reading of bylaw 2B 2026, anyone opposed?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9214.965, "end": 9216.345, "text": "Hearing none, that is carried." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9216.685, "end": 9220.605, "text": "Authorization for third reading of bylaw 2B 2026, anyone opposed." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9221.145, "end": 9222.865, "text": "Hearing none, that is carried unanimously." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9223.405, "end": 9226.625, "text": "Third reading of bylaw 2B 2026, anyone opposed?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9226.945, "end": 9228.545, "text": "Hearing none, that is carried." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9229.945, "end": 9233.405, "text": "First reading of bylaw 3b 2026, anyone opposed." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9233.985, "end": 9235.345, "text": "Hearing none, that is carried." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9235.565, "end": 9239.245, "text": "Second reading of bylaw 3b 2026, anyone opposed?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9240.005, "end": 9241.425, "text": "Hearing none, that is carried." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9241.705, "end": 9246.325, "text": "Authorization for third reading of bylaw 3B 2026, anyone opposed." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9246.785, "end": 9248.605, "text": "Hearing none, that is carried unanimously." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9249.545, "end": 9252.545, "text": "Third reading of bylaw 3B 2026. Anyone opposed?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9253.085, "end": 9254.445, "text": "Hearing none, that is carried." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9255.565, "end": 9259.765, "text": "Now to first reading of bylaw 4b 2026, anyone opposed." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9260.165, "end": 9261.525, "text": "Hearing none, that is carried." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9261.945, "end": 9265.485, "text": "Second reading of bylaw 4b 2026, anyone opposed." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9266.065, "end": 9267.405, "text": "Hearing none, that is carried." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9267.805, "end": 9271.685, "text": "Authorization for third reading of bylaw 4b 2026, anyone opposed." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9272.065, "end": 9273.825, "text": "Hearing none, that is carried unanimously." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9274.545, "end": 9277.765, "text": "Third reading of bylaw 4B 2026, anyone opposed?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9278.325, "end": 9279.645, "text": "Hearing none, that is carried." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9280.645, "end": 9283.865, "text": "First reading of bylaw 1M 2026." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9284.105, "end": 9284.825, "text": "Anyone opposed?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9286.885, "end": 9288.145, "text": "Hearing none, that is carried." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9288.285, "end": 9290.265, "text": "Sir, second reading of bylaw 1M" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9290.625, "end": 9292.225, "text": "2026. Anyone opposed?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9292.665, "end": 9293.945, "text": "Hearing none, that is carried." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9294.265, "end": 9298.525, "text": "Authorization for third reading of bylaw 1M 2026. Anyone opposed?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9298.925, "end": 9300.905, "text": "Hearing none, that is carried unanimously." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9301.525, "end": 9305.365, "text": "Third reading of bylaw 1M 2026. Anyone opposed?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9305.625, "end": 9307.545, "text": "Hearing none, that is carried." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9308.545, "end": 9316.005, "text": "All right, we are moving on to items 9.4.2 Community Investment in Community Parks Proposed 2026 Special Tax By Law." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 9323.145, "end": 9327.905, "text": "Good afternoon. I have a presentation, or we could move straight to questions." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9328.665, "end": 9330.165, "text": "Any questions, colleagues?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 9330.945, "end": 9331.325, "text": "presentation." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 9331.485, "end": 9332.365, "text": "No presentation?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 9334.065, "end": 9334.325, "text": "Yeah." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 9334.505, "end": 9334.565, "text": "Yep." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9334.565, "end": 9338.645, "text": "Alright, seeing no uh questions, uh may I please have a mover for this uh item?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 9338.925, "end": 9341.025, "text": "Sorry, can can we not get the presentation?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9341.105, "end": 9348.205, "text": "Oh, oh sorry, I thought that was that was my question. Yeah. If Councilor Shabot, let's uh as a request, let's please uh hear the presentation." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 9349.105, "end": 9349.865, "text": "Sounds good." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 9351.645, "end": 9382.765, "text": "Good afternoon, Mayor Farkas and members of council. My name is Allison Fifield, and I'm the Community Parks Initiatives lead in parks and open spaces. I'm here today to present the 2026 Special Tax Levy Bylaw, which aims to support community investment in our parks. Under the Municipal Government Act, a special tax levy can be added to homes for local infrastructure or community enhancements. This special tax bylaw serves as a funding source for these communities who do not have a funding source otherwise." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 9383.545, "end": 9407.965, "text": "Other communities have caveat on title, and so that's typically a residents' association or a homeowners association, and they have their own funding mechanism. The funds collected are directly invested into the boulevards, parks, and open spaces in these neighborhoods. The program is completely community driven, requiring a two thirds approval to implement, and once approved, we collect the funds and funnel them through to the community." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 9408.845, "end": 9409.865, "text": "Next slide, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 9412.705, "end": 9443.985, "text": "Thanks to Council's approval, we have supported the this community-led initiative since its inception in 1996 with Christie Park and PARC and its formal adoption in 2002 through Council. This funding method allows property owners to invest in enhanced levels of landscape maintenance as well as winter maintenance. The reason I'm here today and why you will see me every year is that the MGA requires Council to approve the updated special tax bylaw annually. Next slide, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 9445.485, "end": 9455.665, "text": "The recommendations before you are to give three readings to the proposed 2026 Special Tax Bylaw 2M 2006. Next slide." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 9457.825, "end": 9481.145, "text": "Council has the authority to approve and apply a special tax bylaw to raise revenue for specific services and purposes, including boulevard tax or recreational services tax under Section 382 of the MGA. Approval of this special tax bylaw allows communities to raise funds for activities related to landscape maintenance that are above the base level provided by the city." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 9482.145, "end": 9502.605, "text": "These activities include increased mowing, trimming, tree well, shrub and flower bed maintenance, litter control, and snow and ice maintenance. The services and activities executed in each community were identified as a priority for that community specifically during their initial community wide petition. Next slide." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 9505.385, "end": 9576.685, "text": "This process starts with the community reaching out to my team for information on the program. We then support them as they demonstrate community support through a petition or vote. Once they have confirmed their community support, we have validated it and we can add them to the next annual special tax bylaw that would come to council. And that's approved every year, comes to council every year, Q1 of each year to ensure that we have the funds collected through our standard tax process. During this time, my team also has community enter into an agreement to ensure the base service level that the city would have provided will continue to be provided. We support these groups each year as they engage their community to promote the program, as well as a reaffirmation vote every five years. Special tax levy was established as a tool to support communities that do not have the ability to generate funds. It was really put in place to create that equity, allowing groups that don't have funds to have an option. These funds, as I said, are invested into their communities. It contributes to the overall organizational health as well by providing these community partners with a sustainable funding source." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 9578.085, "end": 9592.105, "text": "They deliver landscape maintenance services based on their community priorities and it contributes to the local economy. Each community hires their own contractors or staff supporting local businesses and sourcing products locally." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 9592.905, "end": 9593.565, "text": "Next slide." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 9596.025, "end": 9601.585, "text": "As you can see in attachment three, there are currently 12 communities that utilize special tax levy." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 9602.665, "end": 9638.945, "text": "These special tax levy communities make up less than half of the Enhanced Landscape Maintenance Program or ELM program. And as mentioned, this is a small portion of the ELM program that utilizes special tax levy. Those communities that do not utilize have caveat on title, as I mentioned earlier. If this is not approved today, these 12 communities expecting these funds will have no funds to pay for their planned 2026 work. This may mean they may default on agreements with contractors they have in place. It would also mean that these communities would no longer be able to be in the ELM program." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 9640.525, "end": 9657.385, "text": "Currently there is one outlier. Mackenzie Lake only collects special tax levy for winter maintenance. They're the only group that does that, and we work closely with our colleagues in mobility to ensure that we're having those agreements set up in such a way that it works for them as well." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 9658.645, "end": 9703.525, "text": "If the special tax bylaw is approved today, the total additional investment into Calgary Parks and Open Spaces is over $1.7 million, provided by over 26,000 properties. I highlighted the sec committee as well. There we received we received some great compliments about this stuff or about these this work. And so I wanted to highlight this one. I wanted to reach out and tell you how much I enjoyed it and appreciate the beautiful additions to the landscape in my community. It is very apparent that a great deal of planning and consideration goes into the program. Special tax at $61.80 per household is money well spent. So that's from a homeowner in Scenic Acres. Next slide, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 9706.165, "end": 9737.845, "text": "Some of the typical questions we hear are how can I start a special tax levy? As I mentioned, they reach out to my team and we support them. They have to have capacity to manage the program. I would say it's probably the most resource-intensive program of all of the suite of options we provide for communities to participate in working in parks and open spaces. And then they have to work to get that community support, demonstrate it through two thirds approval. Next slide." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 9739.565, "end": 9741.445, "text": "How can we oh next slide again?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 9742.325, "end": 9743.105, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 9743.845, "end": 9751.545, "text": "How can we stop special tax? There are a few ways tax special tax could be canceled. Council could choose to not approve it today." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 9754.405, "end": 9798.325, "text": "The community-based organization chooses not to continue with it. They sometimes it happens that there's a change in the governance there. We haven't had that happen to this point. And so then the administration would present that request to council at the next special tax bylaw. A sufficient community-wide petition to remove it comes through and is validated. Once again, we'd return to council to remove that, and so that community wouldn't be included moving forward. And the community based organization fails to receive adequate homeowner support to continue special tax. It's very important for us to know that there is the community will behind this, and so that's why we work very closely to ensure that the communities have that support. Next slide." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 9800.045, "end": 9804.525, "text": "That concludes my remarks. Happy to I am happy to answer any questions you may have. Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9805.005, "end": 9808.705, "text": "Thank you, Counselor. Are you good with uh concluding this item before we go on break?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 9809.885, "end": 9811.325, "text": "Sorry can I hear it again?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 9812.605, "end": 9813.125, "text": "Just joking." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9813.985, "end": 9815.145, "text": "All right, uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9815.545, "end": 9817.965, "text": "thank you so much for that, uh Councillor Pantazapulos." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 9818.085, "end": 9841.265, "text": "Thank you so much for the presentation. I learned a lot about the whole process and the option. More importantly, how folks, if they want to get this, they can expand it. Maybe we can just give a little background about community. Like I'm looking at in Ward 6, for example, Patterson Heights. So just that sort of" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 9842.125, "end": 9858.125, "text": "I won't go randomness, but just that approach and and you talk of community. The CA is substantially larger than the 154 homes. Is there a subgroup? Is there a CA within the CA or homeowners association? Just who are you when you speak of in your prior slide? Who is the community? Is it thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 9858.845, "end": 9894.325, "text": "For your worship, thank you for the question, Counselor. The community, so when we did the uh review in 2018, we put in some new parameters. Prior to that, communities could have a smaller number of people participate in this. This is actually one of the things we're looking at trying to fix as well, because there's instances where, to your point, when they did the petition, they only need to be two-thirds built out, but then they weren't adding the additional third to get the special tax. And so it's just kind of one of those things that's happened over time that we're trying to support now while we look at the program and make sure that we can" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 9895.105, "end": 9903.105, "text": "probably lessen the burden and make sure that the benefiting properties, which is key in the MGA, are paying for the special tax." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 9903.505, "end": 9908.905, "text": "Thanks for that. And then just picking up on that two thirds number, I think in if you can go to attachment for page" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 9910.805, "end": 9925.525, "text": "one of three, it it speaks about requiring a vote every five years, a 50% plus one majority of the homeowners. And then later on in the presentation, um, your presentation, you speak of 66 and two thirds. Could you reconcile those two numbers? Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 9925.525, "end": 9952.105, "text": "Thank you for the question. That is so for the initial it requires two-thirds. So we put a stronger requirement for them to get into the program, knowing that it is a commitment for each of those homeowners in that community. And then the 50 plus one is just the reaffirmation. And so we're looking at ways to work on that because right now a lot of them do it at their AGM. And so we just want to make sure that however that's being done, we feel like it's getting the full community input." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 9952.405, "end": 9953.505, "text": "Thank you so much. Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 9954.605, "end": 9955.925, "text": "Thank you, Counselor Shabot." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 9957.265, "end": 9966.125, "text": "Yeah the 50 point one reaffirmation is the one that I wanted to go down that path to determine how do you know whether or not it's 50 point one percent of the entire community that's been engaged." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 9966.305, "end": 9974.185, "text": "And it's that's the thing, it's not fifty point one of the community, it's fifty point one of the meeting that is put out for community to attend." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 9975.285, "end": 9976.285, "text": "Whoever's in attendance." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 9976.285, "end": 9978.945, "text": "So it that's why it's been at an AGM typically." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 9980.405, "end": 9986.065, "text": "Anyways, I um I'm not gonna ask any more questions, but I'm gonna go directly into debate. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 9986.545, "end": 9995.345, "text": "it probably won't surprise you. And if you've been around council for an for a while, you'll know exactly where I'm gonna go with this. Um I I've always voted against this bylaw." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 9996.105, "end": 9998.645, "text": "And I voted against this bylaw for a very specific reason." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 9998.845, "end": 10005.105, "text": "Whilst I appreciate the amount of rigor that goes into getting approval for this, um it comes down to ability to pay." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 10005.365, "end": 10012.985, "text": "For me, enhanced boulevard maintenance should be something that should be offered citywide and it should be part of the tax increase. It should be part of the mill rate." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 10013.345, "end": 10017.885, "text": "It should not be given to only to those communities that have the ability to pay." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 10018.045, "end": 10026.985, "text": "I can tell you, I represent a lot of the poorer communities in the past that didn't have the financial means to actually undertake this bylaw. Not that they couldn't get support" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 10027.225, "end": 10031.865, "text": "initially to get that enhanced maintenance, but they couldn't afford it." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 10032.005, "end": 10039.065, "text": "And so the ability to pay for me is something that is incorporated into our entire tax structure." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 10039.705, "end": 10040.405, "text": "Homes that" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 10040.785, "end": 10046.985, "text": "are more valuable pay more in taxes for the same level of service as a home that's worth less money." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 10047.245, "end": 10063.225, "text": "So the fact that these homes and those folks may have the ability to pay for enhanced maintenance, what I'll get from my constituents is how come those guys get all that beautiful maintenance on their boulevards and we don't get it." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 10063.765, "end": 10066.745, "text": "I go, well, well, they pay an extra tax. They go, well, it's not fair." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 10067.025, "end": 10075.685, "text": "Why why should they get extra uh coverage just because they have the ability to pay? I thought boulevard maintenance was part of the overall city service." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 10076.285, "end": 10078.685, "text": "Oh, yes, but they had to get two thirds of the community." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 10079.265, "end": 10088.765, "text": "I cannot sell them on it. And so for me, for my constituents, the ones that I represent, anyways, that that may not have the financial capacity to actually afford this bylaw," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 10089.325, "end": 10090.365, "text": "uh, they say." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 10090.805, "end": 10102.985, "text": "It's not fair. We don't support it. Add it to my taxes because it'll be an incremental amount of an increase to my taxes. Whereas now I I I look at those guys and they're I I see them as getting special treatment. So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 10103.365, "end": 10103.805, "text": "for me," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 10105.065, "end": 10105.465, "text": "it's a no." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 10105.925, "end": 10108.085, "text": "And I appreciate the work that's gone into getting it." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 10108.365, "end": 10111.125, "text": "And again, the the reaffirmation thing." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 10111.445, "end": 10114.185, "text": "In my communities, I get a lot of turnover." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 10114.385, "end": 10116.525, "text": "I don't know that I could get that 50%." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 10116.825, "end": 10119.285, "text": "That's certainly not from the community wide basis," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 10119.485, "end": 10126.985, "text": "maybe from those folks that show up at the meeting, but to me that's not 50% of what was initially required to get approval in the first place." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 10127.565, "end": 10129.445, "text": "To me it's not a good one. I think we should" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 10129.705, "end": 10136.225, "text": "if we're gonna do enhanced um boulevard maintenance, it should be added to the mill rate and and provided equally across the city." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 10138.925, "end": 10140.205, "text": "Thank you, Counselor Johnson." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 10141.665, "end": 10142.185, "text": "Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 10142.645, "end": 10145.625, "text": "we had spoken earlier in the office about uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 10146.565, "end": 10148.485, "text": "just that a lot of these communities" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 10149.845, "end": 10152.845, "text": "were were in favor of this. Is that correct?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 10154.245, "end": 10202.385, "text": "Through your worship, thank you for the question. Are you asking if the communities that are getting the special tax levy are in favor of it? Yeah. Yep. So the requirement is that they have two-thirds of the benefiting properties agree to this tax to be to get into it. And then I come back with how much. The amount that you'll see in the attachment with the budgets, those communities pick what that is to start. They figure out what it is they want to do. Some people want to do more mowing play fields, some want to do more flowers. There's a variety of priorities that they choose, and based on that, they choose what that budget will look like. And then this is the amount. And then every fall, a letter goes out to every homeowner indicating what the what the special tax amount will be for the coming year." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 10203.285, "end": 10206.445, "text": "Right. So they're willing to pay a little bit more to get a little bit more." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 10208.205, "end": 10208.505, "text": "Yeah." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 10209.185, "end": 10220.125, "text": "And they do the little bit more. I think that's key. They are the ones who hire the contractors. They are the ones who manage all of that work. We just support them with" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 10220.905, "end": 10235.825, "text": "the operating funds. So one of the things, if you're in the enhanced landscape maintenance program, then you get what the funds would have been that parks and open spaces would have spent to do the work that they're doing, the base level, the service standard for parks and open spaces." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 10236.425, "end": 10240.225, "text": "Does any of this program take any stress off of current" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 10240.805, "end": 10241.465, "text": "um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 10242.385, "end": 10245.185, "text": "landscaping resources from the city?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 10247.985, "end": 10252.065, "text": "Does this overlap with city resources or is this separate from city resources?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 10252.065, "end": 10255.885, "text": "It's separate from CETI resources. So they have their own contractors." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 10256.065, "end": 10256.645, "text": "Right." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_23", "start": 10256.645, "end": 10268.085, "text": "Yeah. Okay. And then if there's an instance where, for instance, maybe the whole community isn't, then I have someone on my team that works with operations to make sure there's no duplication of work." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 10268.325, "end": 10269.545, "text": "Right. Okay. So I" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 10270.965, "end": 10274.705, "text": "I appreciate that. That was a admin question. So thank you. Yeah." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 10275.445, "end": 10276.865, "text": "Thank you, uh Councilor Kelly." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 10278.605, "end": 10345.745, "text": "Thank you, Rorship. I just wanted to address this to Counselor Shabot's open. I actually agree with everything that Counselor Chabot said there. But I do think that that's a notice of motion that I'd be happy to work on with the counselor. Because I think that there is a way to be able to do this in a better way that actually addresses all communities and opens you up beyond. We had a lot of uh conversation at CDC about how this is very focused on parks and originally came from the parks department. And we have one community that's using it for uh for winter maintenance. Uh I think there's a there's another way to be able to do this, it's better, but uh I do want to recognize the fact that voting against this right now actually takes the dollars away from people who are already planning on it. A notice of motion that that kind of has like a year lead time and replaces it with something else, I think, is a more appropriate way for us to uh uh to be able to handle this. So while while I while I agree with uh Councilor Chabot's comments, um I'll I'll be supporting this today, um, but I would like to have that conversation about how we could actually improve this in a more equitable way." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 10346.945, "end": 10348.025, "text": "Thank you, Councilor Wynez." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 10348.745, "end": 10353.005, "text": "Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I think council needs to support and pass this." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 10353.325, "end": 10357.785, "text": "You have community associations that have been working with the contractor" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 10358.185, "end": 10362.705, "text": "and planning whether or not they were going to increase their status quo this." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 10362.925, "end": 10363.525, "text": "This rate." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 10363.925, "end": 10368.025, "text": "The city provides the base funding to the community and they decide" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 10368.285, "end": 10370.305, "text": "are we doing flower pots? Kind of" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 10370.665, "end": 10372.285, "text": "enhancements that I don't think" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 10372.485, "end": 10376.325, "text": "the taxpayer would want. And each community wants a different output." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 10377.065, "end": 10381.645, "text": "Not everyone puts big flower pots in, not everyone decorates that throughout the year." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 10381.965, "end": 10385.605, "text": "But that's where your community association gets to control the aesthetic" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 10386.025, "end": 10389.165, "text": "of their community and which is why they took this avenue." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 10390.825, "end": 10392.565, "text": "Yeah, it it's something that" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 10393.145, "end": 10400.485, "text": "as you can see by the price breakdown, it goes from five dollars and up depending on what standard each community is asking for," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 10401.025, "end": 10401.485, "text": "um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 10402.005, "end": 10404.345, "text": "Beyond what the base and what the city has been" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 10404.665, "end": 10405.745, "text": "was doing. And" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 10406.185, "end": 10410.065, "text": "if we want to start picking this apart, I think we're gonna have to really start digging into" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 10410.505, "end": 10416.885, "text": "a lot in parks. Uh I've been down the avenue for the last couple years on our mowing contractors." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 10417.165, "end": 10421.025, "text": "So this is really just the tip of the iceberg that this council will be opening." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 10421.365, "end": 10428.965, "text": "Uh, when we start looking at equity for all citizens, both Boeing contract and snow removal. So please support this." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 10430.485, "end": 10431.525, "text": "Thank you, Councillor Tyres." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_05", "start": 10432.465, "end": 10493.085, "text": "Uh yeah, we discussed this at length that the community development committee is actually my resident from Scenic Acres that had that lovely quote about how much they love the program. And uh it did take a lot of significant effort to originally get the program in their community. That's volunteer-led. None of those people are paid to go out there and uh lobby their community for that change. Um, and so I I'm just really impressed with the effort that it takes to do that and that we should uh continue supporting this program. Uh it's not lost, I guess, on any of you that there's multiple communities in my ward that benefit from this program. And um as far as I'm concerned, it's not really an affordability issue. Uh, if you looked at the McKenzie Lake one, that was five dollars, um, and that's because they're only focused on was it ice? Yeah, it was snow and ice. So, like Counselor Wynus was mentioning, it can be um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_05", "start": 10493.585, "end": 10515.585, "text": "It can be kind of uh uh made made to towards the individual communities and uh benefit them in that day or in that way. And so uh yeah, I encourage my fellow counselors to support it. I think it's a great community and I I think it's um it uh it shows that uh we're we're able to care about the" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_05", "start": 10516.345, "end": 10519.505, "text": "communities that want a little bit more um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_05", "start": 10520.905, "end": 10525.285, "text": "as far as the aesthetic and uh uh things like that. So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 10528.125, "end": 10530.485, "text": "Thank you. Councilor Tyres, did you want to move the item?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_05", "start": 10532.125, "end": 10532.785, "text": "Yes, I'll move it." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 10533.465, "end": 10534.405, "text": "Seconded by" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 10536.745, "end": 10537.425, "text": "Councilor Winez." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 10539.185, "end": 10541.025, "text": "Any uh further debate on this?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 10543.725, "end": 10547.405, "text": "I'll just jump in briefly. I was quite persuaded by you, Councilor Tyres, on" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 10548.005, "end": 10551.645, "text": "I think the objective overall uh should be for us to try to lift the floor" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 10552.085, "end": 10557.165, "text": "rather than knock down some of these communities of PEG. Uh if these are community led projects as they are," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 10557.705, "end": 10559.485, "text": "if it's uh a variety of" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 10559.885, "end": 10565.525, "text": "functions that are above and beyond what the baseline expectations for municipal services are, then we should be." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 10565.925, "end": 10569.545, "text": "Uh in support of that. I am warm as well to what Councilor Kelly said that" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 10570.005, "end": 10576.105, "text": "I think this program is due for review. And I think Council's going to be asking some hard questions around service levels," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 10576.385, "end": 10580.585, "text": "resourcing, all of these things. If the overall goal is to lift the quality of service" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 10580.885, "end": 10583.585, "text": "uh citywide, I think we should be doing that rather than uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 10584.225, "end": 10589.265, "text": "uh knocking down these communities. So again, uh I'll I'll be happy to support this, but" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 10589.805, "end": 10595.005, "text": "Also quite reluctant uh about the over an overall pay-for-play model. I think we" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 10595.305, "end": 10600.345, "text": "should be looking a little bit more strongly at improving that baseline of service, especially given" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 10600.745, "end": 10608.205, "text": "Calgaryans have told us that these specific service levels, particularly around parks, around snow and ice removal and so on, are are so critical. So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 10608.705, "end": 10611.285, "text": "uh that is my debate. Uh Councilor Tyres, did you want to close?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 10612.445, "end": 10612.945, "text": "Closed." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 10629.565, "end": 10630.785, "text": "Mayor Farkas, your vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 10631.945, "end": 10632.265, "text": "Yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 10634.485, "end": 10635.225, "text": "All the votes are in." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 10636.005, "end": 10637.565, "text": "Thank you. Please display the results." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 10651.025, "end": 10655.145, "text": "All right, on the recommendations, the motion is carried 14 to 1 with uh Councillor Chabot." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 10655.625, "end": 10659.765, "text": "Opposed. We will now move to the uh readings of the uh bylaw." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 10660.245, "end": 10664.205, "text": "First reading of bylaw 2M 2026, Councilor Shabot is opposed." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 10665.085, "end": 10666.505, "text": "Second, and that is carried." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 10666.825, "end": 10670.645, "text": "Second reading of bylaw 2M 2026, Councilor Shabot is opposed," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 10671.065, "end": 10671.985, "text": "and that is carried." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 10672.365, "end": 10676.725, "text": "Authorization for third reading of bylaw 2M 2026. Anyone opposed?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 10678.185, "end": 10679.865, "text": "Hearing none, that is carried unanimously." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 10680.265, "end": 10683.785, "text": "Third reading of bylaw 2 M 2026, Councilor Shabot is opposed," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 10684.245, "end": 10685.005, "text": "and that is carried." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 10686.065, "end": 10688.605, "text": "Thank you, Council. We'll come back at uh four o'clock." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 10695.285, "end": 10696.105, "text": "Thank you, Mayor." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 10696.305, "end": 10698.245, "text": "On the roll. Counselor Tyres," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 10698.765, "end": 10699.705, "text": "Counselor Ward," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 10700.325, "end": 10702.565, "text": "Counselor Wyness, Counselor Ewell," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_31", "start": 10702.725, "end": 10702.985, "text": "Here." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 10703.185, "end": 10704.365, "text": "Counselor Atkinson," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 10705.085, "end": 10705.965, "text": "Counselor Chabot," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 10706.205, "end": 10706.965, "text": "I don't think I'd mind." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 10707.785, "end": 10708.105, "text": "Present." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 10708.605, "end": 10709.485, "text": "Counselor Clark," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_31", "start": 10709.645, "end": 10710.625, "text": "Live and in color." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 10710.965, "end": 10712.445, "text": "Councillor Dolly Wall," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 10714.105, "end": 10715.105, "text": "Councillor Jameson," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 10715.585, "end": 10715.985, "text": "Present." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 10716.325, "end": 10717.265, "text": "Counselor Johnston," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 10718.585, "end": 10719.405, "text": "Counselor Kelly," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 10720.165, "end": 10720.965, "text": "Guest starring." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 10721.465, "end": 10722.885, "text": "Counselor Counselor McLean." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 10723.965, "end": 10724.245, "text": "Here." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 10724.505, "end": 10725.865, "text": "Councillor Pantasopoulos." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 10726.245, "end": 10727.025, "text": "Councillor Schmidt." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 10727.245, "end": 10728.425, "text": "Live and sepia." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 10730.125, "end": 10731.265, "text": "And Mayor Farkas." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 10731.745, "end": 10741.605, "text": "Present. Uh we are over to 9.4.3 notice of motion, governance update to boards, commissions, and committees. Uh over to Councilor Kelly to introduce." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 10742.585, "end": 10816.845, "text": "Uh thank you, worship. I won't take up too much of our time here. Uh this notice of motion came about uh at the suggestion of council. And then just simply as vice chair of the executive committee and a member of nomination committee, I volunteered to undertake uh undertake the investigative work uh on how best to achieve council's desires. So this particular notice of motion uh adds a short cooling off, quote unquote, period uh of a year for former members of administration before they may join a board commission or a committee as a public member. Um the BCCs of the city of Calgary, as we all know, help build our communities and shape the future direction of the city. There's 81 of them, and they cover everything from climate to housing to tourism. Um this the city's BCCs uh do not currently have this cooling off period. Um for a definition, it's really a common condition of working in the public service. Umtroducing one helps uh ensure accountability and integrity and reduces potential conflicts of interest. Um our BCCs are governed by the overarching governance and uh and appointments of boards, commissions, and committees policy. Uh and then each BCC also has its own terms of reference. This notice of motion uh allows for a uh a" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 10817.085, "end": 10852.525, "text": "Puts it into the overarching uh uh policy, but allows ever each BCC to opt out of the cooling off period when appropriate through their terms of reference. Uh clerks legal labor relations were all consulted on this um relatively minor change to the policies, and no concerns were raised. Indeed, there was actually some agreement that it was a good addition. I've worked closely with my colleague, Counselor Dollywall, on this notice of motion. I expect he would be willing to second here, uh, and I've spoken with many of you in advance. I hope you'll support the notice of motion, which will help strengthen our intent the integrity of our boards, commissions, and committees." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 10853.865, "end": 10858.285, "text": "Thank you. That's been seconded by Councillor Dollywall. Any further debate or discussion on this?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 10860.425, "end": 10861.245, "text": "Counselor Arkansas." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_26", "start": 10861.465, "end": 10869.425, "text": "Just a couple questions. Um, do we know how often like this would have applied to appointments" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_26", "start": 10870.225, "end": 10879.325, "text": "in the past couple of years? Or is there any has there been any analysis around that? I don't know who would answer that." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_19", "start": 10880.345, "end": 10897.265, "text": "Uh through the chair to Councilor Atkinson. No, I'm afraid we don't have any data on specific numbers of city employees who have applied to be public members of boards, commissioning committees sort of after departure from the city for one reason or another. Unfortunately we don't keep we don't keep data on that." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_26", "start": 10897.325, "end": 10919.745, "text": "Okay, okay. Um, and then the other question I had was uh it was good to hear that the terms of reference can be updated if the committee it doesn't make sense for the committee. Have we heard from any of the committees or or have we asked any of those committees whether changes to their terms of reference would be required and what sort of scale we'd be looking at in terms of those changes?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_19", "start": 10920.105, "end": 10974.625, "text": "I don't have any specific information about specific BCCs that have really uh contemplated this because this would have just hit the agenda a week ago. I know that some uh boards, commissions, committees that I've worked with have had a practice. So, for example, I've worked closely with the assessment review board for many years. They've had a practice of not uh hiring former assessors within a year of their departure of their employment from the city just to ensure, again, because of the unique nature of that tribunal, the public has confidence that the people who are sitting hearing those complaints uh are truly arm's length from the people who are making those decisions on a day to day basis. So, depending on the context, though, I think it's certainly easy to imagine that some may vary their their practices now that this will be a feature of the uh governance and appointments policy, assuming council adopts the change of course." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_26", "start": 10974.625, "end": 11006.785, "text": "Yeah, great. Have we adopted anything similar that would have this kind of application opt-in, opt out from at a committee level in the last couple of years that we could point to and sort of see like what the uptake or sort of uh the differentiation was and sort of the work required when we I mean we have so many boards, and you know, there's there's a lot of potential work to be done to run this through all of those different committees and make sure that it's being applied properly across the board." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_19", "start": 11007.945, "end": 11008.605, "text": "Uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_19", "start": 11011.645, "end": 11015.185, "text": "thank you for the question. It's a good question. I don't think I have any specific" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_19", "start": 11015.965, "end": 11066.165, "text": "Anything specific that would be very helpful in response except to say that there are obviously some entities where current employees are prohibited from being members and those those some of those restrictions come through statutes. So for example, uh the Calgary Subdivision Development Appeal Board, which again I happen to have worked with very closely. People who work in a role associated with the development authority cannot be part of that particular board commissioner committee. So there are there are some statutory guardrails. So we'll have to take this particular provision and work uh with our colleagues, the administrative liaisons of the various boards, commission, and committees, and socialize this, assuming again the council adopts this particular change to the policy and ensure they understand the particular uh limitations or opportunities that the inclusion of this uh provision in the policy will provide to the various boards." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_26", "start": 11066.525, "end": 11068.105, "text": "Okay, great. Thank you very much." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11069.965, "end": 11071.165, "text": "Thank you, Councilor Johnston." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 11072.565, "end": 11074.405, "text": "Sorry. Uh this is for admin." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 11075.085, "end": 11076.705, "text": "Would this help with" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 11077.045, "end": 11077.745, "text": "um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 11081.425, "end": 11084.585, "text": "I have to be careful because my question is related to an in camera issue." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11087.105, "end": 11089.385, "text": "Would you like to make a motion to move into closed session?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 11089.925, "end": 11090.445, "text": "No." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11096.885, "end": 11100.225, "text": "Then I'd ask you to ask a question that can be uh discussed in public." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 11105.025, "end": 11108.125, "text": "Would this year would that help" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 11111.305, "end": 11112.085, "text": "with" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 11112.725, "end": 11117.305, "text": "potential HR issues on existing" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 11117.905, "end": 11120.445, "text": "ex employees applying for a board?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 11121.525, "end": 11122.165, "text": "Or committee?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 11124.345, "end": 11127.525, "text": "Like if if let's say it's over a year, would admin" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 11129.025, "end": 11130.365, "text": "um take a step" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 11131.185, "end": 11132.265, "text": "back in" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 11134.345, "end": 11135.345, "text": "uh their" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 11135.885, "end": 11137.905, "text": "influence on" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 11139.005, "end": 11140.405, "text": "uh applicant" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 11142.185, "end": 11143.285, "text": "would this year help?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_19", "start": 11144.845, "end": 11268.865, "text": "I think the most productive way to answer that question is just to give you a brief overview of how the recruitment and selection process works under the policy. So typically the city clerk's office does a recruitment campaign every year. It it launches mid-year and will take place during August and September. And then once all of the applications from the candidates are collected, the city clerk's office takes those applications and it distributes them to the chairs of the various boards, commissions, and committees. The chairs and and perhaps other members or vice chairs of those boards, commissions, and committees then take all of those applications, they review them, they screen them, and they make a determination based on their criteria, the skill requirements, the composition requirements of the various boards, commission, and committees that are set out in their terms of reference, and they make recommendations to council for appointments of public members. Those recommendations are then brought before typically nominations committee through the city clerk's office, which authors a report and presents those recommendations that we have collected from the various boards, commissions, and committees. So the information that the recommendations are based on is essentially founded on the information provided by the applicants themselves, and then that is reviewed then by the chairs and vice chairs andor selection committees of the various boards, commissions, committees. Those recommendations are what administration presents through its report at nominations committee to council, at which point council then, or excuse me, at nominations committee and nominations committee then has an opportunity to review those recommendations from the chairs of those various entities and make its own recommendation then in turn to council. Typically, those come forward at the organizational meeting of council, as will be the case this year. They'll come forward at the October 20th organizational meeting of council. Last year was a little bit different because it was election year, so we had a different timing, but it's the same process." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 11268.985, "end": 11273.625, "text": "Right. So I'm so glad you went over that because it's ultimately up to councils" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 11274.645, "end": 11276.685, "text": "um committee on" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 11278.425, "end": 11280.325, "text": "nominations committee, sorry." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 11281.565, "end": 11295.625, "text": "Right. And so let's say we pick somebody who's not on your recommended list, right? We we go right to the bottom of the pile, we find somebody we like. Would this notice of motion help if that person had" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 11296.165, "end": 11306.345, "text": "waited a year and after that year prevents administration coming in after the fact and making a recommendation that that person not be on that list?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11306.965, "end": 11310.485, "text": "Thank you. I just want to jump in as uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11310.765, "end": 11317.305, "text": "as chair of nomination committee, just to clarify, administration does not make recommendations about specific" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11317.825, "end": 11320.465, "text": "people who should be appointed. They just carry forward" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11320.945, "end": 11322.945, "text": "what each of those committees" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11323.245, "end": 11329.945, "text": "tell administration. So again, uh uh Deputy Clerk uh Fraser, his influence or participation as administration" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11330.305, "end": 11336.185, "text": "is really limited to just carrying forward the inputs that he's given and presenting it in a report. So again, it's" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11336.465, "end": 11339.925, "text": "City administration is not involved in terms of telling us who" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11340.345, "end": 11344.905, "text": "uh should be on these committees. It's the chairs of those committees and their nominating subcommittees," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11345.085, "end": 11347.985, "text": "uh typically with an application of the skills matrix." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 11352.165, "end": 11361.505, "text": "Right. Would admins still weigh in on previous HR issues with this motion, or since the year has passed, they will not weigh in regarding previous HR issues?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_19", "start": 11362.665, "end": 11413.945, "text": "Um again, probably the most productive way for me to answer that, I think, is to just say that in terms of operationalizing this as a matter of policy, what we would probably do is just ask applicants if they have been employed by the city within the previous the year running up to their application. And if they indicate they were uh an employee, we would pass that information along to the chairs and highlight the at this aspect of the policy. Um and if they didn't indicate, if they indicated they were not an employee, uh again, we would just pass the application along to the chairs for their review. So it really wouldn't substantively impact the clerk's role in terms of the administration that is the vehicle to bring forward recommendations for appointment to council. Those are the chairs' recommendations, they come to nominations committee. Nominations committee then makes its own recommendations to council" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_19", "start": 11414.905, "end": 11415.865, "text": "for appointments." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 11416.965, "end": 11423.145, "text": "Okay, I think I towed the line, so I won't go any deeper than that, but uh I will refer back to" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 11424.305, "end": 11426.065, "text": "Councillor Kelly for this, so thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11427.285, "end": 11428.885, "text": "All right, over to Councilor Yule, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_28", "start": 11429.845, "end": 11434.725, "text": "Um if this if this was enforced this past year, um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_28", "start": 11435.185, "end": 11440.465, "text": "would there have been any nominations that wouldn't have gotten through? Do we know?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_28", "start": 11444.505, "end": 11449.785, "text": "We don't know because that's a new new checkbox, I guess you're asking for in the" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_19", "start": 11450.005, "end": 11457.825, "text": "Uh through the charity counselor Yule, we don't again we haven't collected data specifically through our application process" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_19", "start": 11458.105, "end": 11480.705, "text": "with respect to public member applications to determine whether people were uh employees within the year prior to their application. So, yes, it would be difficult if not impossible to answer that question without doing a hand by hand review of all the resumes, which again is not something really that even though we compile them in the clerk's office, we don't really review them because we just convey them to the chairs of the boards, committees, and commissions for their review." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_28", "start": 11481.085, "end": 11485.445, "text": "and so this is uh a cooling off period um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_28", "start": 11486.245, "end": 11492.365, "text": "to kind of alleviate a perception of conflict and and kind of like a" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_28", "start": 11493.145, "end": 11494.425, "text": "A year is enough," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_19", "start": 11497.685, "end": 11531.045, "text": "The I think the time frame is a little arbitrary. Depends on, I think the they're very, you know, I'm aware of a couple of different areas where again there's different time periods depending on the nature of the body that they're being appointed to. But my understanding of the objective of this kind of a cooling off period is to achieve at least a couple of objectives. Number one is to ensure that again the people who are doing the work and giving advice to council, if they're an advisory body, is that that generally comes from a place of community and from public participation." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_19", "start": 11531.445, "end": 11561.085, "text": "It promotes that aspect and also again secures that sense of somebody who is very recently in administration giving advice or making decisions in review of decisions made by administration when they have you know freshly, freshly departed the organization. So it gives that sense of there's a separation, that time period between their employment with the city administration and the time they take up their duties as a public member of a board commissioner committee." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_28", "start": 11561.645, "end": 11569.385, "text": "but ultimately it's it's still up to council to decide if that perception of conflict is still remaining after that year." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_19", "start": 11569.945, "end": 11575.345, "text": "All appointments to uh boards, commissions, committees, and council committees are council's decisions." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_19", "start": 11575.905, "end": 11576.565, "text": "100%." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_28", "start": 11576.665, "end": 11577.785, "text": "Yeah. Okay, thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11581.225, "end": 11583.905, "text": "All right, before I go to Councilor Kelly, uh to close," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11584.525, "end": 11593.225, "text": "I'm not a a fan of this. I I I worry a bit that it might uh necessarily exclude some expertise. Uh former staff have a lot to to provide," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11593.685, "end": 11597.945, "text": "uh a lot of deep institutional knowledge I think that really would benefit uh." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11598.425, "end": 11602.145, "text": "Appointments onto the various agencies, boards, committees, and commissions. And" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11602.565, "end": 11605.605, "text": "I think uh a blink at Bannon uh like this" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11605.905, "end": 11610.865, "text": "would really deprive us of people who would otherwise be able to be qualified informed contributors." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11611.505, "end": 11616.245, "text": "I also I'm reluctant to support this because I don't think yet that we have any type of" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11616.725, "end": 11621.985, "text": "demonstrated pattern of harm or abuse that might be able to justify a one year cooling off period." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11622.465, "end": 11623.165, "text": "And" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11623.445, "end": 11626.405, "text": "again, uh that one year I think it's a bit arbitrary." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11626.985, "end": 11633.005, "text": "I'd like to see us use a bit more targeted safeguards. I'm not saying that there aren't some potential issues, but" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11633.385, "end": 11636.625, "text": "I think it could be addressed through existing conflict of interest, ethics," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11636.905, "end": 11642.505, "text": "or recruisal rules that would help us to be able to manage the risks rather than just a blanket uh prohibition." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11643.065, "end": 11648.345, "text": "Also worry a bit from uh that this could discourage some public service. So when we're thinking about" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11649.045, "end": 11656.265, "text": "uh the restriction, it may deter talented people from joining city administration or staying in city administration if they think it." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11656.725, "end": 11659.305, "text": "Limits their uh future civic participation." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11659.825, "end": 11668.445, "text": "So I really would like us to be able to retain our boards uh rather uh I think council should retain our ability to assess these appointments on a case by case basis" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11668.705, "end": 11671.965, "text": "rather than being bound by inflexible rules like this. And" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11672.165, "end": 11675.645, "text": "if there are specific terms of references that need to be tweaked, I'd rather" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11675.905, "end": 11677.925, "text": "us do that at the uh committee level" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11678.185, "end": 11684.065, "text": "or the board or commission level rather than just have a uh uh a blanket prohibition in this fashion. So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11684.845, "end": 11687.145, "text": "Over to uh counselor Kelly to tell me why I'm wrong." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 11689.005, "end": 11730.185, "text": "Thank you, worship. I'll maybe go through them in order, so sort of the some of the things. First off, though, I do want to thank uh uh Deputy Clerk Frazier for outlining the uh the implementation of this. I think that for Councillor Dolly Wall and I, when we were writing this up, uh, we definitely wanted to focus on how to make this as low impact on clerks as possible. Uh we looked at a few different options, but we found that the simplest way was this one tweak that's outlined in the notice of motion uh to the uh to the policy itself, while adding in the ability for any uh committee to do as uh as the mayor was saying, you they have the ability to open it up that way. Um maybe I'll say uh just um to counselor Atkinson." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 11730.525, "end": 11838.625, "text": "Uh well, uh Deputy Clerk Frazier didn't have a number for you. I do expect this to be small, for sure. Uh I expect there only to be a small number of uh instances where this would apply, uh, but it does uh align us with sort of best governance practice uh for doing it. I think already a lot of people are uh who are contemplating sitting on these boards, when you leave the city, you you kind of have a self-imposed cooling off period, usually where you're like, I want to step away from a little bit before I want to get back into the into the public service, but this does sort of codify it to make it standard, as we heard from uh um from Clerk Frazier. Um the example of the uh assessment review board, I think, is a is a fantastic example where we do want to uh we do want to make sure that there's a separation between the people who were assessing your house one year are now the people telling you whether or not that assessment is correct the next year. That sort of uh separation just sort of codifies it, makes sure it works. Uh to Councilor Johnson, I'm familiar with what what it is you're speaking about. And uh no, this was not uh uh considered by Councillor Dollywall and I when we when we sat through this, uh this was just uh we we looked at this uh uh purely from a cooling off period. And then finally to Mayor Farkas, uh you had said, you know, a blanket ban. I I think we were very careful in this to make sure that this would not be a blanket ban of folks. This is uh why we included that secondary provision that for any committee, board commission committee who would uh who would benefit from someone who is coming off of uh uh an administrative appointment, administrative role, uh, that they have the ability to be purposeful about that. Um so I think that we've we've kind of addressed most of these conc concerns in here and again I will just say sort of at the very end. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 11839.565, "end": 11862.205, "text": "I'm the messenger. This was uh this was not something that I was like big hill to die on. This was something that came up in council conversation and uh I put up my hand to volunteer to find a way to be able to do this. And uh uh I think that Councillor Dollywall and I found a a very good solution for it. So yep, I hope that you'll all support it to uh uh increase more accountability and integrity to our boards, commissions, and committees moving forward. Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11865.365, "end": 11867.505, "text": "Thank you, Madam Clerk. Let's uh engage the e-vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 11884.465, "end": 11885.645, "text": "Mayor Farkas, your vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11886.225, "end": 11886.485, "text": "No." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 11888.565, "end": 11889.385, "text": "All the votes are in." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11890.265, "end": 11891.845, "text": "Thank you. Please display the results." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11896.925, "end": 11901.285, "text": "That motion is carried with counselors Ward, Johnston, Pentezopoulos," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11902.045, "end": 11906.665, "text": "Jameson, Tyres, and myself uh opposed. The motion is carried nine to six." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11910.585, "end": 11919.245, "text": "Before I go to item 9.4.4, I just wanted a brief uh moment of reflection here. Uh many of you probably saw the the news on the break." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11919.825, "end": 11926.585, "text": "Uh, I just want to say that uh my my heart is very saddened based on the news that we heard coming out of Jaspen and His Hinton" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11926.905, "end": 11931.685, "text": "after the tragic loss of uh two young women age 17 and 18" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11932.045, "end": 11938.025, "text": "who were killed on Highway 16 while driving home from hockey practice with the under 18 Jasper Bearcats." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11938.525, "end": 11943.465, "text": "They were teammates, classmates, daughters, and friends with their whole lives ahead of them." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11943.845, "end": 11944.565, "text": "And" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11945.445, "end": 11953.105, "text": "I know in Alberta here, hockey connects communities, and when one team suffers a loss like this, it's felt far beyond the rink." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11953.565, "end": 11954.085, "text": "So," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11954.285, "end": 11956.485, "text": "Council, I hope you'll uh join me in" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11956.865, "end": 11960.765, "text": "thinking of their families, their teammates, and the students at Harry Colling High School," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11961.045, "end": 11963.005, "text": "and the first responders who attended the scene." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11963.505, "end": 11969.345, "text": "So I hope you join me in just a moment of reflection here as we stand with Jasper and Hinton during this incredibly difficult time." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11986.125, "end": 11987.145, "text": "Thank you for that, Council." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11987.585, "end": 11990.465, "text": "We'll now move to item 9.4.4" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 11990.665, "end": 11994.085, "text": "Notice of motion, supporting transit riders through longer transfer windows." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 12005.465, "end": 12007.985, "text": "I believe this is over to you, Counselor Jameson, to introduce." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 12009.045, "end": 12009.945, "text": "Okay. Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 12009.945, "end": 12011.525, "text": "I think you're gonna have to fight everyone." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 12011.845, "end": 12013.785, "text": "Yeah arm wrestling to first seconder. So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 12014.545, "end": 12017.845, "text": "whoever gets uh you you let me know in your open who's gonna second" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 12017.845, "end": 12018.645, "text": "Introduction." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 12019.665, "end": 12051.045, "text": "Uh yes. Okay. So today I am introducing the motion to extend Calgary's transit single fare transfer from 90 minutes to 120 minutes. The idea started with a constituent of Ward 12 who reached out to me. She explained that it often takes her more than 90 minutes to travel from her home to work, particularly in wintertime when buses can run behind schedule. In those cases, she risks being forced to pay a second fare simply because of timing." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 12051.805, "end": 12052.465, "text": "That" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 12053.125, "end": 12055.065, "text": "struck me as a fairness issue." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 12055.925, "end": 12069.905, "text": "Calgary already has one of the highest single fare transit rates in Canada. A simple way to add value, and frankly fairness, is to expand the transfer window from 90 minutes to 120 minutes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 12071.365, "end": 12083.945, "text": "We are a growing city. Commutes are longer. Routes involve more transfers. A 120-minute window better reflects the reality of how people move across the city today." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 12086.005, "end": 12106.325, "text": "It also aligns with other cities, larger cities. Systems like Toronto and Montreal provide two hour transfer windows. Interestingly enough, also some smaller cities do too, like Halifax and Quebec City. So this is not a radical policy. This is becoming the standard practice in Canada." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 12107.525, "end": 12117.125, "text": "Since introducing this motion, I've heard from other counselors and other residents who support the idea for practical reasons other than just distance." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 12118.625, "end": 12138.385, "text": "Some have said they would use transit for short errands, such as quick shopping trips, if they knew that they could complete it within a two hour window without paying twice. That's the kind of behavior we want to encourage. More transit users could replace short car trips." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 12139.645, "end": 12153.045, "text": "We cannot say with certain how this would affect ridership, but we know from other cities that have adopted similar policies that this change would add tangible value for Calgarians who rely on transit." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 12154.705, "end": 12162.785, "text": "This is a modest, practical adjustment that recognizes how our city functions today." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 12163.945, "end": 12172.505, "text": "I look forward to working with my colleagues to make Calgary Transit more responsive, more competitive, and more fair for riders. Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 12173.705, "end": 12177.685, "text": "all right counselor Kelly who got in under the wire as the seconder. The uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 12180.145, "end": 12184.805, "text": "counselor Eula seconded that motion." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 12187.465, "end": 12192.145, "text": "Counselor Johnston really wanted to second the motion. All right, it's uh seconded by Councilor Johnston." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 12193.065, "end": 12195.285, "text": "Uh any debate on this? Counselor Chabot?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 12197.465, "end": 12198.305, "text": "Yeah, so um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 12198.485, "end": 12202.365, "text": "when this went to committee, I did mention that this seemed like an unusual" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 12202.885, "end": 12205.985, "text": "uh method of of responding to this, that" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 12206.545, "end": 12209.425, "text": "motions like this amendments to fee schedule" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 12209.845, "end": 12215.085, "text": "typically would go through um through an infrastructure planning committee or a standing policy committee." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 12215.585, "end": 12219.065, "text": "And I did say that I would amend it or was gonna amend it at committee, but" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 12219.305, "end": 12220.965, "text": "I was told it's not the appropriate time." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 12221.365, "end": 12224.685, "text": "Um so I've submitted something to city clerks." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 12225.065, "end": 12225.765, "text": "And uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 12225.765, "end": 12226.305, "text": "Time has come." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 12227.305, "end": 12228.125, "text": "The time has come." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 12228.285, "end": 12228.845, "text": "time is now." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 12229.225, "end": 12231.525, "text": "Um so I'd like to uh propose an amendment." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 12231.865, "end": 12232.905, "text": "Uh of course" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 12233.265, "end": 12265.665, "text": "There's a lot of reasons why I think we should go to the Standing Policy Committee, including uh public input. Um I'd like to find out a little bit more about what the potential cost implications are of this. We're talking about a two-hour window. Somebody could come downtown, have dinner or lunch or with someone and and then and go all the way home again with a two hour window and only pay for one fare. So there is potentially a cost implication to this, which is why I'd like to know more information about what the budgetary implications are, what the cost implications are of this. We're already subsidizing transit to the tune of 65% from the mill rate." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 12266.065, "end": 12283.405, "text": "So at least have an understanding of what that is and getting public input. So um in consultation with administration, uh they believe that the May the 7th uh date would be the most appropriate for IPC and then subsequently on to council for May the 26th, because that's the time frame that" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 12283.705, "end": 12285.385, "text": "associated is associated with that." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 12285.645, "end": 12288.645, "text": "The the 27th date didn't actually make sense anyways." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 12289.185, "end": 12290.825, "text": "There's no committee on the 27th, so" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 12291.425, "end": 12293.445, "text": "it probably needed to be amended anyway. So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 12294.085, "end": 12297.545, "text": "here's a way to fix both of all the issues on one one felt swoop. So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 12298.025, "end": 12300.125, "text": "if I can get a seconder to that motion." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 12300.585, "end": 12303.625, "text": "Not that Councillor Schmidt wants to second it or anything, but" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 12304.525, "end": 12310.305, "text": "All right, second by counselor Schmidt. Uh the amendments on the floor. Any uh debate on this amendment, uh Councilor Johnson?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 12311.305, "end": 12315.205, "text": "Now my questions for admin has something like this come to the floor before?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 12319.785, "end": 12324.805, "text": "So I'm just gonna keep us tight on the amendment about whether this should go to committee or should go straight to council." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 12325.705, "end": 12328.525, "text": "That's what's uh this is what's in front of us right now. So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 12329.105, "end": 12330.205, "text": "That's what I'm asking about." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 12330.565, "end": 12331.945, "text": "I would answer that later." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 12332.765, "end": 12334.145, "text": "No, this is about the amendment." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 12335.265, "end": 12336.345, "text": "Oh, has someone ever" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 12338.385, "end": 12345.665, "text": "has someone ever brought forward a change to the date? Probably. I would say that this is has probably happened before." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 12345.985, "end": 12351.405, "text": "Okay, and so was a technical review done on the specific 90 minutes to 120 minutes?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 12353.345, "end": 12358.525, "text": "We did not provide any technical review of this numbefor it was put forward." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 12358.925, "end": 12359.405, "text": "Okay." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 12360.605, "end": 12363.045, "text": "Do you see any technical issues with it right now?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 12363.785, "end": 12366.605, "text": "Councillor Johnson, I'm just gonna keep you tight on the amendment here." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 12367.865, "end": 12372.145, "text": "So the amendment is just specific to the reporting dates here and uh where it should report back." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 12372.725, "end": 12377.145, "text": "I this is pretty simple to me. I'd recommend to my counselors to vote against this. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 12378.525, "end": 12397.745, "text": "more people are gonna take transit because of it. That's what we want. And the whole purpose of it is to allow people to go downtown, get dinner, and get back home on one ticket. Um otherwise they're probably just not gonna pay for any tickets. So this is a no-brainer. Vote no against the amendment and yes to the regular uh notice of motion here. Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 12398.165, "end": 12408.885, "text": "Thanks. Uh again on the amendment. I want to keep you guys tight on the amendment, just timelines and where it goes, not just not the merits of what the benefit or not is to the transit riders. Uh Councillor Schmidt?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 12409.465, "end": 12417.365, "text": "Yes, I I support bringing this back to IPC, not because I don't support the nature of the main motion, but just given" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 12418.245, "end": 12419.025, "text": "how" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 12420.085, "end": 12452.665, "text": "much we've seen transit struggling with the current funding levels they have and with service delivery, this will give us a better idea of scope, costing, implementation, and also cost benefit of if we want more people to ride transit. Is this the best way for us to do it? And that provides the answers that we need. So it really isn't delaying things by much because this would need implementation time regardless, but at least this gives the committee some insight into that implementation, which is why I've seconded this today." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 12453.325, "end": 12455.525, "text": "Thanks, uh Councilor McLean. Are you on the amendment?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 12456.065, "end": 12457.985, "text": "Yeah, I was just gonna speak and" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 12458.365, "end": 12464.165, "text": "Against the amendment. I think we just went around the room and everybody sounded like we couldn't wait to second the original motion." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 12464.485, "end": 12472.625, "text": "So I think this is just delaying the inevitable. If you wanted the whole intent is to get to the deep south to downtown, it takes a lot longer than it used to. And if you can come downtown" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 12472.925, "end": 12475.525, "text": "and eat dinner and get back in two hours, good on you. But" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 12475.725, "end": 12479.365, "text": "you better be eating a McDonald's. But yeah, let's just let's just get let's move forward." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 12479.745, "end": 12481.265, "text": "Delays are cost money." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 12481.705, "end": 12483.485, "text": "All right, uh Councilor Wynus on the amendment." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 12485.145, "end": 12493.445, "text": "Yeah, I think this is uh a good amendment. We need to, as a council, going into a four year budget, understand the financial implications of decisions." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 12493.905, "end": 12496.205, "text": "Uh this, when I looked into it" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 12496.425, "end": 12496.885, "text": "uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 12497.245, "end": 12500.805, "text": "last term, I was told there was going to be a substantial cost, and" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 12501.325, "end": 12501.725, "text": "uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 12502.165, "end": 12503.885, "text": "then it would have to be made up somewhere." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 12504.125, "end": 12507.245, "text": "And so that's something this council really does need to know the numbers." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 12510.845, "end": 12512.505, "text": "Thank you, Councillor Jameson." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 12515.045, "end": 12527.825, "text": "Well, I think this is a relatively simple thing that we're making much more complicated than we need to. So for it to go back to IPC, for that to be voted on, or whatever it needs to do, and come back to council." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 12528.865, "end": 12538.245, "text": "I don't think we should do that. So I will be voting against because this is a simple thing that we can we can move forward on and we don't have to keep delaying things. Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 12540.385, "end": 12542.205, "text": "Thank you, Councilor Atkinson on the amendment." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_26", "start": 12543.445, "end": 12558.505, "text": "Um I'm I'm wondering if you can expand on what we would be provided should this go back to committee. Like what would what's the information we would receive from transit that would help us inform our decision around the uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_26", "start": 12559.405, "end": 12560.365, "text": "To notice a motion." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 12561.125, "end": 12590.645, "text": "Well, um typically when we get a recommendation or or or a suggestion on how to change our fee structure, we would present the cost implications, uh, other considerations, and then what what going to committee does allow is opportunity for public uh to speak to the item as well. Um so typically we would go through this process. Um it's unusual for something of this sort to go straight to council." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_26", "start": 12593.045, "end": 12612.545, "text": "Um, and would we so I know there's the cost implications side that's been sort of brought up, but would would there also be analysis of transit riders, like new transit riders that are not currently being captured because of the current fee structure that are currently not riding as a part of the analysis" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 12613.125, "end": 12638.325, "text": "So there's no um indication that there's any funding associated with this notice of motion. So we wouldn't we haven't planned to do significant amounts of research on this topic unless we were to provide be provided with funding to do so. And ideally, uh this type of work would be accompanied with a budget line item to help support the research, right? Uh we wouldn't" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 12639.865, "end": 12643.965, "text": "stop all other activities in order to process" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 12645.345, "end": 12657.545, "text": "data on this particular item. So what we I mean we could attempt to do some, but it would be better to see some resources allocated to doing this properly." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_26", "start": 12658.085, "end": 12670.085, "text": "to get that analysis from transit. Uh so really the benefit of this is to have the public hearing associated with it, is what it with the sort of uh putting it back to IPC." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 12671.465, "end": 12684.385, "text": "And and um there's also other conversations about transit at that IPC meeting, so there'll be some opportunities to perhaps dovetail this conversation with other ones as part of a package." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 12684.885, "end": 12685.165, "text": "Okay." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_26", "start": 12685.165, "end": 12685.745, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 12686.785, "end": 12688.685, "text": "Thank you, Councillor Kelly. Were you on the amendment?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 12691.385, "end": 12691.705, "text": "Okay." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 12692.185, "end": 12694.305, "text": "Counselor Pantasopoulos on the amendment." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 12694.665, "end": 12727.325, "text": "Yeah, you bet. I wasn't going to speak, but then just you heard your comment that you I think I'm going to put words in your mouth, Admin wasn't going to do a lot of work on this. The main amendment, excuse me, the main notice of motion clearly has uh administration report back, an assessment of financial and ridership impacts. So was it the intent that if the main motion passes, admin was not intending to do any work? That's what I I heard. Because all the amendment changes is simply dates and reporting. So are are you telling this council that if our notice of motion passes, administration has no intention to follow through on that? That's what I heard." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 12727.325, "end": 12741.045, "text": "Okay, there's two questions right now. One is on the timing of when we come back and how, and the other is about the amendment itself. Um I can answer questions about the amendment now, or I could wait till after this." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 12741.045, "end": 12746.045, "text": "I only pick it up you answered Councillor Atkinson by saying you had no resources and almost no intent to do the work." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 12746.045, "end": 12748.685, "text": "This is not something that we had in our work plan." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 12749.325, "end": 12751.985, "text": "But we have a notice of motion and if council approves it." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 12751.985, "end": 12757.945, "text": "Typically, we would be given resources to undertake work like this when requested." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 12758.385, "end": 12764.425, "text": "We could put other work aside to do so, but we'd have to decide what work we would be putting aside." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 12765.305, "end": 12781.505, "text": "Maybe I'll just step in. Yeah, the direction that we got from from council, if there was an analysis prov uh and a direction from council, we would we would reprioritize to provide the information prior to coming back and the change in policy. So we would follow through with what we said uh what what was directed as part of council." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 12781.585, "end": 12790.645, "text": "Thank you. Yeah, that's thank you for that. That when a notice of motion is passed by council, it is the will of council and the hope was that administration would come and put the resources required for that. Thank you so much." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 12790.805, "end": 12794.345, "text": "Thank you. Anyone else on the amendment who hasn't spoken?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 12798.765, "end": 12802.185, "text": "All right. Over to Councillor Chabot to close. Help me make my mind up." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 12802.905, "end": 12804.125, "text": "Okay, thanks. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 12804.665, "end": 12806.045, "text": "well I've been here 21 years," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 12806.265, "end": 12813.625, "text": "and whenever there's a proposed amendment uh that's being proposed on transit, typically I try to get more information. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 12813.865, "end": 12832.025, "text": "I can tell you that after one term, one term, i.e. four years, I still didn't have enough information to be able to make a decision based on I want to change this from this to this, without getting administration to report back on the budgetary implications. This is essentially what this is looking for, and also to weigh in on." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 12832.265, "end": 12833.725, "text": "On what the public has to say." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 12834.005, "end": 12847.905, "text": "There's been a lot of discussions around our transit system and how it's going to operate on a go forward basis, including looking at things like zone-based fares. If you live right close to downtown, this could get you there and back easily on a single trip." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 12848.065, "end": 12872.105, "text": "Yes, if you live at the very far reaches of our city, this may not cover it. But there's other ways of covering it, like a monthly pass as an example, that would give you unlimited access to the transit system, regardless of how much time in a day. This is only then would be applied to a single use fare ticket. And typically our regular transit users do not buy a single ticket." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 12872.565, "end": 12886.105, "text": "They will buy a monthly pass or or a weekly pass or a yearly pass as in the case of a senior. So the idea that somehow this is going to get more riders on the system, I don't know what empirical data you've got to actually support that statement." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 12886.345, "end": 12892.225, "text": "Um or or that it will ultimately uh result in in a savings for any one individual." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 12892.485, "end": 12913.605, "text": "Like I said, a single user ticket is not your typical transit rider. So if we're actually trying to target our regular transit riders, this is not the way to do it, in my opinion. But hey, I'm willing to listen to what administration has to say when they report back to us and also hearing what the public has to say about other mechanisms such as zone based fares." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 12914.105, "end": 12925.965, "text": "Just saying. Anyways, hope you can support this. It's a right process going through standing policy committee, getting public input, and getting a more comprehensive response from administration before we decide on this in council." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 12926.305, "end": 12926.805, "text": "Closed." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 12927.885, "end": 12930.985, "text": "Thank you, Madam Clerk. Let's please engage the e vote on the amendment." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 12944.325, "end": 12945.625, "text": "Mayor Farkas, your vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 12946.345, "end": 12946.685, "text": "Yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 12948.565, "end": 12949.805, "text": "Thank you. All the votes are in." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 12950.585, "end": 12952.205, "text": "Thank you. Please display the results." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 12953.825, "end": 12960.065, "text": "And the amendment has been defeated with Councillors Ward, Johnston, Pentazopoulos, Clark," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 12960.385, "end": 12963.125, "text": "Ewell, Jameson, Tyres, and McLean opposed." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 12963.985, "end": 12965.925, "text": "Back to the main with uh Counselor Kelly." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 12968.425, "end": 13017.245, "text": "Uh thank you, worship. That actually helps the questions that I had. I was like, should we be doing this at IPC? Should we be doing it here? So I guess I'll ask them here, uh, because it's in front of us now that that's failed. Um just want to note that extending the duration of a valid fare from 90 to 120 minutes was explored in um IP 2025-0381, which went to executive committee on March 11th by Councillor Meehan and Counselors Walcott. In that report, it was recommended to not increase the duration of the ticket validity as it would require a fare increase. We during the November budget voted to increase fares, if I remember correctly, by two periods. So I'm just curious if uh um those fare increases that we did in November would change the recommendation from uh uh from administration." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 13019.845, "end": 13044.785, "text": "So through the chair, Councillor Kelly, those uh that that funding actually went towards a number of growth routes that we had committed to at that time. So there were a number of different routes where we allocated that $4 million. Uh so that there is no additional funding to support this at this time." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 13049.525, "end": 13051.945, "text": "Okay, so we don't we wouldn't necessarily" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 13052.385, "end": 13059.305, "text": "know if we would change the recommendation based on that because the funding that we uh uh pro provided in November has already been allocated." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 13060.305, "end": 13061.245, "text": "That's correct." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 13061.945, "end": 13119.225, "text": "I will add that it's pretty unclear how much this will cost at this time. We actually don't have a modern technology available to us to track how long people are riding. It is in the works. We are planning to come forward with a plan in May to talk about how we are going to be transitioning to a more modern transit fare technology. And at that time we would have better data once that's rolled out to be able to measure how people are using transit, how many trips are long, and to see what this the cost drivers might be for something like this. So at this time, we'd be doing it based on surveying some sort of statistical assumptions and maybe doing an environmental scan of other municipalities where they have had these conversations to see what their assumptions were." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 13119.685, "end": 13140.605, "text": "And so I d you you're getting into exactly what my next questions are gonna be. Uh so the first one is in terms of to be able to track the 90 minutes versus the 120, uh, as that currently stands for a C train, your ticket gets stamped at the machine. Uh, I assume that is a relatively easy change to those machines to add an extra few minutes. Is that correct?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 13141.905, "end": 13150.185, "text": "So the machine itself wouldn't require a change because you would just count backwards from the time it was stamped." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 13150.365, "end": 13153.425, "text": "Even better answer. Fantastic. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 13153.765, "end": 13154.725, "text": "the" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 13156.665, "end": 13179.645, "text": "You you mentioned about the financial and the ridership impacts, which is really where my question sort of lay here, which is I'm wondering what what impact this would have on the day pass program. Would like, do you anticipate that we'd see less people buying day passes or how popular the ticket stream currently is? Would this have an impact on the monthly ticket cost? Yep. I'm just gonna ask that as a blanket question here, if you would." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 13180.225, "end": 13202.885, "text": "It's really hard to know what changes in behavior we would see if we implemented this particular change. We do know that there are some individuals that like to take advantage of the 90 ticket window to take two trips. This would certainly encourage more of that type of use." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 13204.085, "end": 13214.125, "text": "It depends on whether or not that's the type of use we want to encourage. And uh we would have to look at the total cost of this over time if we wanted to do it right." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 13214.705, "end": 13235.825, "text": "I'm glad you bring up the the the multiple trip, and I'd I'd offer it to Councillor Jamison to address that in the close if possible. I'm wondering, can you just like the average journey of a Calgary Transit rider? How long does it take to get effectively what I'm getting at is like what is the sort of max single destination trip that we're sort that we see currently on the primary transit network?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 13236.845, "end": 13239.085, "text": "On the primary transit network specifically." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 13239.085, "end": 13260.265, "text": "Well, what I'd really love to ask, and it's a bit of a complicated one to ask you, sort of on the fly, is that uh if I live up in the far northwest or uh and I look to take one of those collector buses to the primary transit network, ride the primary transit network, and then get off onto a collector bus to perhaps my my place of employment in the southeast, like how long would one of those trips take?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 13262.165, "end": 13288.065, "text": "I mean there's a lot of factors that would change how long your trip might be. So it would be the time of day. So does that particular trip have a good transfer time? But I mean it could range anywhere from what we believed in the past 90 minutes to two hours, certainly. But it would be an unusual trip. I don't know that it's a it's common for someone to take that type of trip without a monthly pass." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 13288.825, "end": 13289.585, "text": "Right? Yeah." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 13289.705, "end": 13312.125, "text": "And and maybe maybe I'll leave it there and I'll just say like without getting into debate to my colleagues, like I'm inclined to support this, uh uh, but hopefully through some of your questions we might be able to get a little bit more information just along the like the ridership on financial impacts of it. Uh seems like a simple enough uh uh change to me, uh, but I am not the the expert. Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 13312.445, "end": 13329.045, "text": "Uh maybe if I could just chime in on uh what the questions that you're asking are actually a direction in the notice of motion for that report in April we'll we'll do our best to provide those answers as best we can with the limitations on the analysis. So we would provide that color before you make the final decision on the next day." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 13330.325, "end": 13339.445, "text": "I really appreciate that, GM Morgan. My my understanding and my reading from it was that we make the approval, we get the report, but it is it is done. So I appreciate that that correction of my assumption. Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_31", "start": 13343.205, "end": 13344.105, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 13344.105, "end": 13345.065, "text": "Counselor Clark, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_31", "start": 13346.645, "end": 13353.405, "text": "Yes, thank you. Um just a quick question. How did we ever land on 90 minutes as a as a as a transfer time?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 13356.745, "end": 13359.025, "text": "That's an excellent question. I'm gonna ask uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_31", "start": 13359.025, "end": 13359.785, "text": "Yeah, and if I may, just" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 13359.785, "end": 13361.045, "text": "someone with more history to answer." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 13362.005, "end": 13363.605, "text": "That's the old guy, that really hurts." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_31", "start": 13364.405, "end": 13377.885, "text": "well, if I if I can preface this a bit with we're now sort of like, you know, what will these folks do with 30 extra minutes? What if they take two trips? I mean, how do we land on 90 minutes as the appropriate amount of time to deliver on that fare? If you" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 13377.885, "end": 13419.525, "text": "I think it's exactly what Councillor Jameson has talked about. What's a typical ride within Calgary? Can it be completed within that 90 minutes? It worked great when we were a much smaller city. Now we're starting to be a bigger city. It makes some sense. The unintended consequences once we went to allowing two-way when we first had it in, that was it needed to be 90 minutes in a single direction, which was super challenging to enforce. So we said it's just 90 minutes total on transit. So as we've grown, we now have needs that uh require those longer transfer times. Uh part of what Director Plumbing is describing is understanding what the impacts both on those long trips but the short trips as well, and then be able to provide that uh advice to council for the decision." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_31", "start": 13419.525, "end": 13421.865, "text": "thank you, sir. You're an excellent speaker. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_31", "start": 13422.365, "end": 13425.625, "text": "may I ask when that came into play? Like what year would that have been?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 13426.685, "end": 13431.325, "text": "It uh predates me. So uh before the turn of the millennia, let's say that." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_31", "start": 13432.065, "end": 13435.425, "text": "Okay, so it perhaps it's an appropriate time to revisit the idea." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 13435.525, "end": 13454.385, "text": "Yeah, and it's always been kind of a a standing and running uh issue for us of uh of when to make that change. We're hopeful as we look at fair technologies, what's our opportunity to use some more uh tailor made uh fair strategies to provide great customer service but also uh develop some revenue uh to operate the system." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_31", "start": 13454.465, "end": 13457.505, "text": "Absolutely. Well, thank you. I would just say that um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_31", "start": 13457.985, "end": 13458.605, "text": "Uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_31", "start": 13458.985, "end": 13463.165, "text": "it makes good sense to me. I think I suppose I'll wait for debate actually. Thank you very much." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 13464.085, "end": 13465.905, "text": "It is your chance to debate. It's been" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_31", "start": 13465.905, "end": 13466.425, "text": "Moved. Yep." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_31", "start": 13467.365, "end": 13471.265, "text": "Well, pardon me then. To that end, I would say that" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_31", "start": 13471.905, "end": 13506.045, "text": "it feels like an unfair sort of policing of an individual utilizing a public service. 30 minutes extra in a city that has grown exponentially since the unknown date of the 90-minute transfer. I mean, it's just it's it's forward thinking. I appreciate that there are financial risks, uh, and perhaps there's a financial risk to almost everything we do. Uh, but uh the potential to invite more people to utilize our transit system uh is absolutely the right direction for us. And so I'm very glad to support this. Uh, thank you very much." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 13508.845, "end": 13510.205, "text": "thank you. Uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 13510.625, "end": 13514.905, "text": "and uh looking forward to your disembodied voice. Uh Councillor Deliwal, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_35", "start": 13516.245, "end": 13521.265, "text": "Thank you. I just got a question for uh Ms. Flaming. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_35", "start": 13522.345, "end": 13523.965, "text": "just to help me uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_35", "start": 13524.305, "end": 13533.285, "text": "learn about this norm. Is it giving a direction to you guys to make it from 90 to 120 minutes uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_35", "start": 13533.485, "end": 13535.525, "text": "just from the get go tomorrow?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 13537.805, "end": 13542.625, "text": "No, I don't believe so. I think it it asks us to." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 13543.505, "end": 13549.325, "text": "Provide proposed amendments to the FAIR policy in April that" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 13550.905, "end": 13583.645, "text": "identify the required changes to the validation system and enforcement practices. So we would have some changes to the MyFAIR system because the valid fare would look different for a longer period of time. We would have to report back on communication and public education and associated costs to inform them of the new transfer period and any transitional measures required to support effective implementation. So I think this is more about." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 13584.525, "end": 13592.625, "text": "providing the information that includes those three items, we'd also be doing a financial assessment at that time that we'd be presenting." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_35", "start": 13593.385, "end": 13600.705, "text": "Let's keep it simple. Just yes or no. Is this asking you to implement 100 120 minutes?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 13602.005, "end": 13603.985, "text": "At this time I don't believe it is." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 13604.745, "end": 13613.245, "text": "Uh Councilor, my understanding is that the motion is just to prepare the necessary amendments. There's uh gonna be a final thumbs up or thumbs down uh from council." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_35", "start": 13614.385, "end": 13619.005, "text": "Oh, okay, great. Thank you. And then I won't have any other questions. That's it for me, May. Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 13620.025, "end": 13621.725, "text": "Thank you. Uh over to Councilor Johnson." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 13627.765, "end": 13633.285, "text": "Sorry, I'm just having uh a little confusion on the last executive committee from" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 13633.825, "end": 13636.905, "text": "Jasmine, me and Surrey Councillor Jasmine and Walcott." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 13638.065, "end": 13645.525, "text": "I mean it seems like you were directed to do the research that were asking in that last amendment." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 13646.085, "end": 13646.605, "text": "Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 13647.705, "end": 13650.305, "text": "why was that research not done for" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 13650.985, "end": 13653.845, "text": "the valid fare from 90 minutes to 120 minutes" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 13656.105, "end": 13658.125, "text": "with with the money that was available for that" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 13659.485, "end": 13660.205, "text": "direction?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 13661.025, "end": 13665.425, "text": "I'm trying to think back to that and I don't actually recall that amendment" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 13666.225, "end": 13667.185, "text": "being directed" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 13667.745, "end": 13668.445, "text": "to us." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 13668.725, "end": 13669.625, "text": "It passed." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 13671.085, "end": 13672.525, "text": "But it was recommended" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 13673.165, "end": 13677.105, "text": "by you guys, administration, sorry. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 13678.065, "end": 13692.525, "text": "That you would be looking further looking into it. Currently reviewing and evaluating its current fair policies, fair payment systems, structured technology, environmental environment through the engagement of a fair payment. So it sounds like that work was still ongoing." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 13692.525, "end": 13729.805, "text": "Yeah, so that work is in fact still ongoing, and we plan to report back within the year with a wholesome fair strategy, including opportunities for the new technology that will enable us to do a variety of different things depending on the will of council, which may include price per distance or fit or zones or time of day. There might be a number of things that we bring forward, but we want we were planning to do it as a wholesome report. And this would be one example of the type of thing you might see in that recommendation." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 13730.905, "end": 13735.065, "text": "But it was also also not recommended in this preliminary" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 13735.605, "end": 13738.145, "text": "report that was given." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 13739.325, "end": 13740.085, "text": "And so" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 13740.565, "end": 13741.985, "text": "based off of that, you guys are" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 13742.945, "end": 13745.585, "text": "ongoing on some of these reports." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 13745.865, "end": 13747.105, "text": "On" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 13747.465, "end": 13749.825, "text": "December 15th, I had asked the question" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 13750.465, "end": 13754.085, "text": "Can we get an estimate on what the effect of on budgeting would" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 13754.965, "end": 13765.145, "text": "be in the timing of the use of one time transit ticket expanded to 120 minutes from 90 minutes? So my office asked the technical question on" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 13765.745, "end": 13768.485, "text": "the financial implication of this back in December," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 13769.365, "end": 13771.425, "text": "and our answer" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 13771.985, "end": 13772.645, "text": "was" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 13774.225, "end": 13778.605, "text": "uh your recommendation is that an adult buy a day pass instead of" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 13779.585, "end": 13781.925, "text": "Going from ninety minutes to 120 minutes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 13782.325, "end": 13819.085, "text": "So I believe that was a question in the inquiry system. Yeah. So I think that the question may have been misinterpreted and uh by us, not by you, by us. And we thought you were asking for a suggestion on how to expand the transfer time, and we got it wrong. So I I certainly apologize for that. We don't actually have the data to assess the cost of the expansion of this right now. But with this notice of motion, we will endeavor to try to do what we can to get that answer." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 13821.005, "end": 13821.785, "text": "Okay, thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 13824.645, "end": 13827.745, "text": "Thank you. Over to uh Counselor Shabot, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 13829.885, "end": 13837.425, "text": "Yeah, I'm not going to try and belabor the point too much, first and foremost. A friendly amendment needs to be made to that April 27th date because there is no reporting" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 13837.625, "end": 13841.185, "text": "opportunity on April 27th. There's no council meeting, there's no committee meeting." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 13841.725, "end": 13844.405, "text": "That at the very least has to be changed April 28th." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 13844.985, "end": 13846.385, "text": "I believe it reads April 28th." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 13848.465, "end": 13848.765, "text": "The first" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 13848.765, "end": 13852.945, "text": "Up on the screen at the very bottom left, April 28th regular meeting of council." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 13853.325, "end": 13854.885, "text": "yeah, no, the one above that. And" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 13855.485, "end": 13857.505, "text": "it says no later than April 27th." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 13858.065, "end": 13859.165, "text": "There's no reporting" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 13859.445, "end": 13861.465, "text": "opportunity on April 27th. That one." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 13861.805, "end": 13863.225, "text": "Oh, I see what you mean. Yeah." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 13864.345, "end": 13864.605, "text": "Yep." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 13864.705, "end": 13870.345, "text": "I don't think we have friendly amendments anymore, but uh counselor Shabot, are you uh willing to make that amendment?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 13870.505, "end": 13870.905, "text": "Yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 13870.905, "end": 13872.605, "text": "Second by uh Counselor Jameson." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 13873.345, "end": 13875.505, "text": "That's just a very quick clerical correction." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 13876.885, "end": 13879.305, "text": "Uh let's just do a quick voice vote" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 13879.545, "end": 13880.565, "text": "on this. Uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 13881.465, "end": 13882.045, "text": "all in favor?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 13883.265, "end": 13883.945, "text": "Any opposed?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 13884.565, "end": 13886.465, "text": "All right. That amendment to uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 13887.385, "end": 13892.485, "text": "I know madam clerk you don't like us doing this on the fly like this, but uh the amendment was simply the uh the" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 13892.705, "end": 13899.085, "text": "the second last there further be resolved. Uh strike 2026, April 27th to read April 28th." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 13899.725, "end": 13909.085, "text": "Thank you, Mayor. It was included in Councillor Chabot's previous amendment, so we did catch it. So we will replace April 27th with April 28th. Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 13909.265, "end": 13912.845, "text": "Okay, thank you, Council. That motion is carried. Uh back to you, Councilor Schibel." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 13912.905, "end": 13913.785, "text": "Yeah. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 13914.385, "end": 13914.825, "text": "this" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 13915.825, "end": 13920.985, "text": "is a similar process that many councils in the past have undertaken during the course of the year." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 13921.265, "end": 13937.045, "text": "Talk about these minor amendments that they want to make and they say, oh, it's a minor budgetary implication. We we don't even know actually what the budgetary implications are. We've heard from administrations saying they're going to come back with a comprehensive plan on maybe a completely different fair strategy." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 13937.345, "end": 13970.845, "text": "The idea of doing incremental budgeting is a scary one because every member of council, whenever they hear a concern from residents, will likely want to bring something forward to council and say, oh, it's it's nothing. It's only one million or two million or four million. Um and and come budget time in in uh November when we start to deliberating, administration is gonna say, okay, here you go, here's what you asked for. It's now a 12% tax increase. You go, whoa, whoa, whoa, hang on, where did 12% come from? Well, it's this and this and this and this and this that you've approved over the course of the year." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 13971.285, "end": 14003.745, "text": "So this is the challenge that I have with approving anything mid-year is that incremental budgeting can result in a very significant tax increase at year end. And then at year end you're gonna go, oh no, no, no, hang on, I didn't sign up for this. But but you've approved it over the course of the year, which is why I'm I'm gonna implore that you guys consider delaying this, at least until you have the complete response from administration on different fare strategies, which ultimately should then still be decided at budget time when you can look at it comprehensively with the entire rest of the budget." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 14004.025, "end": 14004.445, "text": "So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 14005.185, "end": 14015.905, "text": "my suggestion, I would encourage you to not vote for this today. But whilst I I appreciate the the intent here, I I don't think this is the right way of doing this." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 14016.505, "end": 14018.225, "text": "Just my my two cents again." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 14018.765, "end": 14020.125, "text": "So please vote against this" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 14020.305, "end": 14026.185, "text": "and wait for a more comprehensive response from administration on the full fair strategy. And again, like I said." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 14026.825, "end": 14029.885, "text": "Vote for all all of whatever changes you want to make to the budget" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 14030.385, "end": 14031.065, "text": "at budget." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 14032.345, "end": 14036.645, "text": "Thank you, Councillor Chabot. I believe Jim Morgan wanted to jump in on a previous point." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_11", "start": 14036.825, "end": 14076.525, "text": "Yeah, I just want the opportunity to just share a bit more information. We do have a media report just for comparators because I think we're kind of dancing around the financial impact. What we've heard from the city of Ottawa when they made this change from I believe 90 minutes to 120 minutes, the estimate was about $800,000 impact to the revenue. So I didn't want that to go unsaid if you look online and do that research. So just as a comparator, we haven't done a full kind of review of all other properties on what that is, but that'll give you a feel for it. We have a lot of riders on a big system. So small changes, as uh Councilor Chabot has said, can add up to big dollars. But just wanted to share that uh that we didn't go any further without that information. Yeah." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 14077.905, "end": 14086.385, "text": "Um just to add a point there, that was their estimate. They actually chose not to implement the 120-minute ticket in Ottawa." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 14087.325, "end": 14094.185, "text": "So that that was an estimate f of what it would cost, and it was mostly attributed to two-way trips." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 14095.385, "end": 14097.345, "text": "Thank you. Over to Councilor Schmidt, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 14098.785, "end": 14102.265, "text": "So uh my mind keeps going back to bang for our buck here." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 14103.085, "end": 14115.405, "text": "When it comes to transit and some of these things that you're putting in place, we heard that the ninety minute transfer was put into place before even GM Morgan" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 14116.085, "end": 14117.885, "text": "remembers. So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 14118.505, "end": 14123.845, "text": "The city has changed in huge ways since that time." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 14124.705, "end": 14130.245, "text": "And can you confirm that we actually don't have the data to know if" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 14130.725, "end": 14131.385, "text": "this" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 14132.585, "end": 14134.225, "text": "current plan" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 14135.805, "end": 14147.485, "text": "will welcome as many riders as some other strategy, like zones, so that we aren't spending money from our reserves to," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 14148.605, "end": 14153.025, "text": "in principle, increase ridership, but really spend money to make a change." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 14153.605, "end": 14162.065, "text": "That doesn't really have an effect on ridership. So, is that something that has crossed your mind in thinking about this? About" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 14162.585, "end": 14167.085, "text": "are are we using our money in the best way possible to get more people riding transit?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 14169.245, "end": 14188.645, "text": "Um through the chair, uh Counselor Schmidt, uh we do not have sufficient data at this time to understand the travel patterns of our riders. Um do we have a significant number of individuals who time out of their ticket part way through their trip?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 14188.985, "end": 14213.645, "text": "I believe we actually have policies with our operators to address those circumstances when there are, you know, challenges with closures, uh, when there are extended amounts of traffic. Uh, and I have not actually heard that there are a number of people buying these second tickets. What we do know is that." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 14214.245, "end": 14253.265, "text": "We are concerned with the loss of opportunity to collect revenue in cases where people can take two trips because every single trip costs money. I would also argue that the cost of providing an extra long trip is greater now than it would have been in the past. So there's a whole bunch of different things that are challenging to wrap our heads around, and without the data, we can't really speak in terms of facts. And it would be much better to have the technology implemented so that we could start to actually base our fair modeling on changes on those facts." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 14255.305, "end": 14261.605, "text": "And I we have another notice of motion coming up about the free fare zone today, and equal access" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 14262.045, "end": 14266.665, "text": "to opportunity is something that's come up in that discussion. So," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 14267.845, "end": 14269.645, "text": "again, is a plan like this" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 14270.025, "end": 14276.985, "text": "The in your opinion, the best way to have equal opportunity for the cost of our money as far as" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 14277.845, "end": 14291.345, "text": "how many riders are actually riding for two hours, how many are riding for more than two hours in their trip because we have some communities now that are 40 kilometers from downtown. Do we actually know" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 14292.805, "end": 14294.885, "text": "how many riders this will benefit?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 14296.085, "end": 14339.345, "text": "Through the chair, uh Councillor Smith. Uh so we only know where riders get on. We don't know where they get off in our current model. So we have pretty good bus data to indicate where they got on, but that represents simply aborting. It doesn't actually represent the extent of a trip. We don't actually have data on the full length of passenger trips across our system. So some individuals may choose to not take the trip because the service isn't very good. So to make decisions around service we have available actually doesn't indicate what the possibilities of those trips might be. And that's why." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 14340.185, "end": 14343.685, "text": "Loss of revenue is a risk because we" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 14344.205, "end": 14353.505, "text": "provide opportunity to those who are served well now versus those that could be potentially served well if we had more resources and more funding." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 14354.805, "end": 14361.285, "text": "Finally, my last question is you spoke about a new report and a new potential system that you're bringing into place." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 14363.465, "end": 14364.005, "text": "By" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 14364.785, "end": 14367.665, "text": "going down this path, are we going to" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 14367.945, "end": 14368.825, "text": "affect" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 14369.605, "end": 14374.305, "text": "your ability to continue to work on that and to give us" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 14374.985, "end": 14386.945, "text": "what we need for that? Or are we potentially taking away resources from you to actually provide us with an opportunity for transformational change that that would be equal?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 14388.525, "end": 14431.425, "text": "So certainly this work would create a need to reprioritize. So we'd be taken a little, I mean, away from some of that strategic work to a certain extent. But I think that in the long term, we could still complete that work in conjunction with the rollout of the technologies that we have planned and make new decisions in the future that may amend this window, that may change how we charge. So it's not a huge risk if this is the will of council to implement the the extended time, but it does defer some of our revenue that we would otherwise use to put more service out on the street." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 14432.425, "end": 14439.605, "text": "Okay, thank you. I'll use the remainder of my time for debate here. I I initially supported this motion, but in hearing" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 14441.165, "end": 14444.985, "text": "the lack of information that we have" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 14446.465, "end": 14452.505, "text": "around the effects that this will have and now knowing what is coming up, I think that" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 14453.165, "end": 14459.125, "text": "again, coming back to this idea of governance, we can't bring these things to council without" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 14459.345, "end": 14483.545, "text": "Properly scoping and understanding the implications of what we're doing because we might be spending money on something that actually doesn't provide a long-term benefit. My mind goes to Ward 8 residents who, you know, some of them live one stop away from the free fare zone. They are paying the same fare as somebody who will benefit from this time extension." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 14483.885, "end": 14485.825, "text": "And they're they're going one stop." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 14486.465, "end": 14488.145, "text": "So we are spending money" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 14488.625, "end": 14489.325, "text": "to" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 14489.765, "end": 14502.705, "text": "maybe benefit a thousand riders, maybe benefit five thousand riders, maybe benefit twenty five riders. We don't know, and that is not good decision making. And so" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 14504.005, "end": 14523.105, "text": "We're going to be having a discussion. We're going to be doing a full-scale scoping of the benefit of the free fare zone because we have questions about the effectiveness of that. We're not doing the same amount of due diligence here. And I just my mind goes to for the people who I represent," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 14524.205, "end": 14532.905, "text": "we're looking at taking away a benefit to them while providing a benefit to others. And it's not equal. And" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 14533.465, "end": 14576.025, "text": "It's also potentially a big waste of money. We just don't know. And we need to know that before we make these decisions. So, in principle, do I support something like this? Of course. I take transit every single day myself. And it is something that I benefit from, that my family benefits from, and that my neighbors benefit from. And I want to encourage people to use more transit, but we're not going to encourage people to use more transit if we're making decisions blindly. And I would strongly argue to my colleagues that we are, in fact, making a blind decision here today. And that's not a good idea. So I I won't be supporting this for that reason." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 14577.085, "end": 14578.085, "text": "Thank you, Councilor Yule." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_28", "start": 14581.245, "end": 14586.725, "text": "Yeah, I'm just uh gonna speak in support of this. Uh Ward 3. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_28", "start": 14587.125, "end": 14628.705, "text": "We we can't get around anywhere uh on transit with without like I'm just looking at my route right now to get home, an hour and a half to get home on transit right now. So um we are pushing the limits. I had a a door knocker on the campaign from Falcon Ridge uh try and help door knock with me in in Panorama Hills, and he his his transfer expired. It was on a Sunday, it was during, it wasn't even during like winter times. It was it was during uh the summer and on a Sunday, it took him it took him two hours to get to me and and and multiple transfers. Um so when we talk about fairness, um our system is" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_28", "start": 14628.945, "end": 14651.445, "text": "Is not set up for fairness. We like you know the the the joys of getting on a on a bus to go downtown to have dinner and come back, that's not a reality in Ward 3. Uh and so um definitely in support of uh giving my residents in in Ward 3 a little bit more uh time on the bus to get where they need to be." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 14653.825, "end": 14655.105, "text": "Thank you, Councilor Wynez." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 14656.245, "end": 14663.605, "text": "Thanks. Can you guys tell me the percentage of riders that are have deeply subsidized passes? I think this was given to council last term." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 14667.985, "end": 14688.985, "text": "That's a great question. I know that there is a substantive amount of our revenue that does come from those that we subsidize from those individuals. I would say it's probably at one point the riders were at 45% of the rides were subsidized passes. That may have changed, but that was sort of the number we provided back then." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 14689.105, "end": 14698.385, "text": "Yeah, like as much as uh uh I like I'm a suburban ward and I I I I always play this challenge of to what you Councillor Yule said. Um," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 14699.225, "end": 14708.065, "text": "but yet when you know nearly fifty percent of your ridership has is deeply subsidized, and then as a council we now have to also top up that fund." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 14708.505, "end": 14709.305, "text": "While also" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 14709.465, "end": 14710.105, "text": "cutting" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 14710.765, "end": 14711.485, "text": "this." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 14712.065, "end": 14718.825, "text": "This is why we need a real holistic look at how do we balance all of these variables to service" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 14719.045, "end": 14720.165, "text": "all of the city." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 14720.325, "end": 14727.485, "text": "We are still also using some of our ad revenue to make up for losing a sponsor in the fare free zone." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 14728.105, "end": 14736.625, "text": "If we want to solve this for our residents, we need that holistic look. You can't make everyone happy, but we also cannot increase everyone's taxes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 14736.945, "end": 14751.405, "text": "Incrementally without thinking about the long game of what our decisions actually get us. Because your constituents in the suburbs are going to be just as angry about a massive tax increase as they are about having to deal with these bridge" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 14751.685, "end": 14752.505, "text": "taking transit." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 14752.745, "end": 14755.885, "text": "So maybe there's even another solution we haven't even thought of" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 14756.065, "end": 14760.825, "text": "that can be your pass is valid till you get to your destination on the one way direction flow." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 14761.085, "end": 14761.385, "text": "Like" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 14761.825, "end": 14769.545, "text": "th there there's solutions that we are not really thinking about here because now we've opened up that we know that if it's a running time, you can go there and back." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 14769.865, "end": 14776.905, "text": "But what the suburbs want is we want our fare to actually make us get to our destination, not there and back six times." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 14777.205, "end": 14778.225, "text": "So I like" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 14778.425, "end": 14781.285, "text": "I I want to support the idea of this," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 14781.585, "end": 14789.845, "text": "but the execution is what I can't support here because there are so many things that we have to hold at once and govern. And governing is not easy." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 14790.525, "end": 14792.345, "text": "So thank you. I'm not supporting this." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 14794.525, "end": 14795.545, "text": "Thank you, Councillor Kelly." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 14799.665, "end": 14800.985, "text": "Thank you, Borship." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 14802.905, "end": 14813.065, "text": "So we heard earlier that we're going to get a more fulsome look at the system as a whole, including fair structure, within a year. Is that correct?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 14813.745, "end": 14814.445, "text": "That's correct." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 14815.945, "end": 14845.085, "text": "And so this is getting a report back, you know, nine months earlier than that, basically around this one particular item. I admit I'm a little bit torn on this one because like I absolutely support the idea behind it. Our city has grown, and there are costs to growth. And this is one of the costs that I think is is is is is born by that and worth taking for that. If the number is $800,000 per Ottawa's estimate, um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 14845.605, "end": 14848.245, "text": "That's the cost of growth. We chose to grow this way." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 14848.685, "end": 14849.485, "text": "Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 14849.965, "end": 14863.965, "text": "where I am struggling with this one is simply from the point of view of like I don't like the to to both Counselor uh Chabot's and Counselor Wines's points, like I don't really like and Counselor Schmidt's as well, like I don't really like the idea of uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 14865.225, "end": 14895.565, "text": "Doing this as a one-off when we know that we're gonna have a more fulsome report coming forward with it within the year. Um we also have something sort of similar coming up in our next notice of motion as well. That I'm gonna I'm struggling with that for the exact same the exact same reason. Uh I do think that if we are able to treat this as a little bit of a natural experiment to see what this actually does to our ridership for, you know, six months, nine months." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 14896.245, "end": 14947.225, "text": "I might be willing to say yes on this one, whereas the next one we're seeing, that to me is not worth taking a natural experiment on while we wait for uh the the more fulsome report. Uh I'm if anybody else wants to try to convince me otherwise, I'm I'm I think I'm gonna vote yes to this and no to the next one. Uh but I'm not a fan, as we've heard, of doing these as one-offs. The only way I sort of feel comfortable with this is knowing that we're gonna we have an end date to it uh for when we will have another opportunity to make some uh changes to the system as a whole, which frankly, in my opinion, uh is actually the thing that is most needed at this point is to look at the overall transit system and how we're growing as a city and how we can address that in the fairest way for Calgarians in all pockets of the city trying to make all the trips that they're trying to make uh from transit." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 14949.145, "end": 14952.205, "text": "All right, Councilor, or rather, uh Deputy Mayor Pentzopolis, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 14952.205, "end": 14959.945, "text": "Thank you so much. Counselor Kill, I'll give you the reason why you should support the next notice of motion. Consistent with why you should support this notice of motion. Data." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 14960.545, "end": 14964.405, "text": "Every single person on admin said, we don't have the data. We don't know. We don't know." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 14964.745, "end": 14992.985, "text": "If you read the notice of motion, it's pursuit. You ask the question saying, hold on, what is this to get? It's to get our data. It's to get an assessment of financial and ridership impacts, confirmation of implementation readiness and timing. I think this council is educated enough and smart enough that if the implementation excuse me, if the implementation costs and we are not ready, we're not going to support a bylaw. If the financial impacts are material, we're not going to support the bylaw. This is a data driven process." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 14994.605, "end": 15001.645, "text": "The next one is a data-driven process as well. I won't speak to that until the next one. But this is what we need to do. We get this information. We just heard that it was it was" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 15002.085, "end": 15041.125, "text": "Before 2000, we have absolutely no idea why 90 minutes is better. Is it 120 minutes? Is it 10 minutes? I don't know, but I guarantee that this assessment and financial ridership impacts will have the quantification. So based on that, I think this council has really shown an initiative where we want to get the data and make decisions. That's why we have voted down things. We didn't have the data, and that's why we are voting for things, because we're going to have the data. So I urge everybody to support this. This is a data pursuit. I think the the information or the work that administration is doing for their affairs would not incorporate this 120 minutes. And I think it's uh important to now sort of roll that and dovetail dovetails beautifully. We make that choice. And for those reasons for the data, I'm going to be supporting this. Thank you so much." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15042.085, "end": 15043.345, "text": "Thank you, Councillor Atkinson." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_26", "start": 15045.125, "end": 15054.425, "text": "Can you speak a bit about what we're gonna be seeing with the fair revenue strategy and like yeah, the peace coming to council? That large" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 15054.425, "end": 15106.545, "text": "So there's a number of a number of things that we're going to look into. We're going to do an assessment of different options. We're going to make some recommendations about how we could transform the system. And then we will also have an implementation plan on how to do it strategically because there's going to be a couple of steps required around technology to make it all happen. But that's what you'll see. So there'll be an assessment of the different options. We probably will do, like I think our plan is to do some engagement as well with Calgarians to determine what they feel would be more appropriate from a fair strategy because there's lots of different dynamics here to ask one group to pay more for longer trips. But you know, even suburban trips can be short if it's within their community. So we need to figure out what the balance is on the will of Calgarians as well." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_26", "start": 15106.885, "end": 15109.065, "text": "right. Uh so" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_26", "start": 15109.745, "end": 15117.305, "text": "will is an exploration of 90 to 100 and twenty minutes, is that a part of the scope of work for?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 15117.405, "end": 15178.305, "text": "So there it could be. It could be part of the scope of work. There are a number of things that you can look at. So that the ticket time transfer period is one thing. Another thing could be distance-based fares, another thing could be zones, another could be time of day fares. There's a lot of different options out there. We need to look at it wholesomely to see what the levers we how the levers affect our total revenue because at the end of the day, we need to remain whole on revenue in order to continue to serve the city the way we serve it today, right? So there'll be a lot of different things that we're going to be looking at. And then we'll have to, once we have a decision on how we would like to change the system, then we'll have to come up with what's the fare, what's the rate that we would charge for the various options so that you know we can make a decision on that. But there's a difference in collecting data for something like the free fare zone because it's a very closed part of the system and the entire city." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 15178.825, "end": 15189.845, "text": "There's challenges between those two different types of things. So I think the level of granularity we can get to for the free fare zone conversation will be greater than" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 15190.905, "end": 15198.205, "text": "Data on the city as a whole until we can have that technology rolled out and have a better sense of where people are going, right?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_26", "start": 15198.645, "end": 15214.705, "text": "Right. But so and the goal with the fair review strategy, like what is the goal? It's it's it's about it's around revenue ultimately, right? Like you just mentioned, it's a like it's a it's an exercise in in revenue recovery." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 15215.105, "end": 15245.845, "text": "So there's a lot of things that it can it can resolve, right? So it could resolve tensions and equity, right? Because is it fair for somebody who simply takes a quick trip in the Northeast to pay the same as someone who goes from one end of the city to the other? That might be something we want to look at. Another thing it uh we might want to resolve is you know value, right? So there's a whole there's a number of levers that we would look at, and those would be the pillars that we would use in our assessment to evaluate the different options." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_26", "start": 15246.485, "end": 15261.625, "text": "And are we basing that on largely like our own data or data like about transit sort of in other other jurisdictions? Like what these recommendations that would be coming, what are they ultimately gonna be based on?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 15261.625, "end": 15306.345, "text": "So we would look at a we certainly would do an environmental scan on what other cities are doing, right? We have quite a large geography here, and and so do a lot of the other cities across Canada. So we'd look at what they're doing, but we would probably also need to look at how that works for Calgary, because there's different geographical centers in Calgary that might affect different travel patterns than you would see in other cities. So we would want it to be a made in Calgary approach to look at what would work, what our our our our Calgary transit riders can get behind, and finding that balance between equity and the right amount of revenue to run the system that we have today." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_26", "start": 15306.665, "end": 15307.065, "text": "Okay." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_26", "start": 15308.425, "end": 15433.165, "text": "I'll go into debate. I think I'm going to support this. When I've done my research around fare-free transit, if you want to talk about it anytime, my door is wide open. One of the big things that comes up is the one of the losses of ridership is around actually short travel. So I hear my colleagues living in the suburbs and sort of the plight of traveling downtown. But actually, there's also, I think, something to be said for those and I recognize there's this idea. Maybe you go and you get your dinner and you travel back on the same ticket as maybe being a loss to the system. But I think ultimately when you live that close and you're able to do that within that time frame, I guess I question whether that trip is taking place on transit and what revenue we are potentially foregoing, which is a very difficult piece to measure, right? It is one thing to measure current riders and sort of where they are getting off and where they're getting or getting on and getting off. And we can sort of see the impact that a move from 90 to 120 would have in terms of the cost. But it is very difficult on the other side to capture who is not using transit for their trip because the 120 minutes would allow a kind of trip, whether that be a trip for a long distance or a trip of a round and back within 120 minutes that maybe wouldn't have been accommodated with a 90 minute uh trip. Um it's it's difficult to capture that. Uh so I think you at some point you do kind of just need to base things on in terms of like the geography of the city, in terms of the experience that you're trying to provide to riders. And ultimately, I think any moves that are moving us along uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_26", "start": 15434.125, "end": 15478.485, "text": "Towards sort of just a better experience for transit riders, and this is something that was uh public. We did hear from the public in Councilor Meehan's um uh notice of motion that this was something that Calgary Transit Riders had uh heard from the public uh writ large in their um it was the very first item on their notice of motion. And so in that way, I I think that there has been enough done to do this, uh make this move. And I don't know that necessarily the doom and gloom of what it is going to have in terms of financial impacts won't necessarily be offset by new riders and trips that are not currently taking place on Calgary Transit." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_26", "start": 15479.625, "end": 15480.025, "text": "Thanks." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15482.785, "end": 15483.965, "text": "Thank you, Councilor McLean." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 15484.045, "end": 15487.505, "text": "I'll be quick, just I wasn't even gonna speak, but since everybody else did." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 15488.885, "end": 15490.485, "text": "I think it's comes down very simple." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 15491.045, "end": 15496.645, "text": "If anybody that's looking for more data to make a decision, it says right in here, we're gonna get more data to make a decision. To" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 15496.905, "end": 15498.745, "text": "Counselor Pantozopoulos' point." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 15499.185, "end": 15503.325, "text": "To common sense, I'll look to Counselor Harrison. So if we were using 90 minutes" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 15503.605, "end": 15504.865, "text": "20 years ago" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 15505.525, "end": 15508.185, "text": "and we've quadrupled or whatever, quadripled our size," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 15508.805, "end": 15512.065, "text": "well, it maybe makes sense that maybe we need an extra 30 minutes to get around." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 15512.445, "end": 15515.265, "text": "Especially if you're in the south, in the suburbs. I mean, that just uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 15515.885, "end": 15519.585, "text": "uh only makes sense if we're looking for ways to get revenue." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 15520.185, "end": 15522.505, "text": "I would say yes, we do should look at maybe" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 15523.045, "end": 15529.365, "text": "a lot a lot of revenues lost on fair or fair evasion. And there's a lot of maybe we should look in deeper into our heavily subsidized passes," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 15529.685, "end": 15531.285, "text": "maybe a little more betting into" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 15531.645, "end": 15534.845, "text": "who is uh, you know, possibly game of the system, or maybe they" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 15535.245, "end": 15537.345, "text": "have more people pay other ways to create revenue." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 15537.905, "end": 15539.545, "text": "But if you're pro transit" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 15540.525, "end": 15544.605, "text": "ridership and you vote against this, I that I can't square that circle. So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 15544.985, "end": 15546.965, "text": "I'd support this and hope everybody else does as" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15552.465, "end": 15555.125, "text": "All right, is uh who hasn't spoken yet?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15559.625, "end": 15561.665, "text": "All right, uh Councillor Jameson" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15562.725, "end": 15563.445, "text": "to close, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 15563.685, "end": 15564.365, "text": "Thank you, Mayor." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 15565.485, "end": 15590.685, "text": "So this motion, as has mentioned, it is about data. This motion is about practic is practical and fair. It reflects the reality of today's Calgary, a larger city with longer travel times and increased congestion. 90 minutes simply isn't always enough anymore. Extending the window to 120 minutes adds real value and better reflects how transit is actually used." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 15591.925, "end": 15603.745, "text": "It's a modest change, but a meaningful one. If we want to support riders and encourage greater transit use, this is one sensible step forward." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 15604.505, "end": 15608.205, "text": "In the words of mayor, if I may, it's a no brainer." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 15609.825, "end": 15617.065, "text": "I'll be supporting this motion, and I respectfully ask my fellow uh counselors, colleagues to do the same. Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15617.625, "end": 15622.885, "text": "Thank you, Councilor Jameson is closed, and I just want to just to clarify what we're voting on." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15623.725, "end": 15624.565, "text": "Uh we're" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15625.185, "end": 15627.605, "text": "voting on directing administration to prepare" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15628.045, "end": 15632.225, "text": "a necessary amendment which would implement. It's not to implement the change," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15632.705, "end": 15633.885, "text": "but it's to prepare" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15634.165, "end": 15636.325, "text": "the necessary amendments if we wish to" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15636.785, "end": 15638.425, "text": "at that uh April meeting." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15638.805, "end": 15644.945, "text": "It also uh directs administration to report back with an assessment of the financial impact. So, again," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15645.325, "end": 15647.785, "text": "the motion before us is not to implement the change," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15648.105, "end": 15653.945, "text": "but it's to receive greater information uh for a decision that would be made at a later date. So with that uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15654.545, "end": 15658.385, "text": "Madam Clerk, let's please engage the vote on the amended recommendation." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 15670.525, "end": 15671.785, "text": "Councilor Schmidt, your vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 15673.845, "end": 15674.365, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 15675.525, "end": 15676.745, "text": "Mayor Farkas, your vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15677.265, "end": 15678.685, "text": "Thank you. Or sorry, yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 15680.505, "end": 15681.085, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 15682.205, "end": 15683.385, "text": "Now all the votes are in." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15684.065, "end": 15686.005, "text": "Thank you. Please display the results." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15689.705, "end": 15693.245, "text": "All right. That motion is carried 11 to 4 with Councillor Schmidt." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15693.665, "end": 15696.125, "text": "Daliwal Shabot and Wynass opposed." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15696.465, "end": 15700.265, "text": "Over to uh Councilor Shabot on point of procedure." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15700.305, "end": 15702.645, "text": "Yeah, thanks um worship. I um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15703.225, "end": 15707.205, "text": "been asked by build um about a letter that they had submitted" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15707.725, "end": 15713.405, "text": "uh that they wanted to have included as part of the corporate record. It was item 7.1.1 or 7.11" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15713.805, "end": 15716.445, "text": "on our consent agenda. We've already approved the consent agenda," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15716.865, "end": 15718.425, "text": "and I've just wanted to know" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15718.725, "end": 15719.905, "text": "if there's a mechanism" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15720.385, "end": 15722.885, "text": "by which we can actually have it incorporated." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15723.905, "end": 15724.865, "text": "There, Build, go here." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15726.565, "end": 15727.205, "text": "Oh, wow." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15727.525, "end": 15728.385, "text": "You're way ahead of me." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15728.865, "end": 15729.325, "text": "Thanks." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15729.705, "end": 15730.625, "text": "Yeah, that." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15731.445, "end": 15737.845, "text": "So that's a motion by Councilor Shabot to add a letter from build on item 7.11 for the corporate record." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15738.485, "end": 15740.065, "text": "Uh can I please have a second or" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15740.445, "end": 15742.725, "text": "second by Councilor Kelly. Any debate on that?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15743.205, "end": 15744.085, "text": "Any opposed?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15744.705, "end": 15745.765, "text": "Seeing none, uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15746.345, "end": 15747.165, "text": "that motion is carried." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15747.865, "end": 15751.025, "text": "Thank you, uh Councilor Shabot for adding that to the corporate record." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15751.425, "end": 15758.105, "text": "Let's just make sure Councilor Shabot, if you don't mind, just sending a copy by email to uh council for that letter to make sure that we all" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15758.325, "end": 15759.745, "text": "uh see it in our inboxes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15761.925, "end": 15762.205, "text": "Yeah." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15764.825, "end": 15766.325, "text": "Over to uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15766.525, "end": 15772.645, "text": "we're on 9.4.5 review and reform of the downtown Calgary Transit Free Fair Zone." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15773.205, "end": 15776.125, "text": "Councilor Yule or Deputy Mayor who is uh on point for this?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15777.065, "end": 15777.325, "text": "All right. I'll" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15777.605, "end": 15778.365, "text": "move on. Deputy Mayor." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 15778.445, "end": 15800.685, "text": "Yeah, you bet. Thank you. Uh we're gonna kick it off. Thank you, worship. Colleagues, uh, this motion is actually a great example of how council can disagree, listen, and then collaborate to create a better policy outcome. At last year's budget, Councilor Yule and I voted differently on whether we need to eliminate the downtown free fare zone. But instead of staying in our corners and sulking, we sat down and asked ourselves a very simple question what are we both trying to achieve?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 15800.865, "end": 15816.925, "text": "For me, the priority was ensuring that all parties who rely on and care about downtown, businesses, employees, residents, students, visitors, and vulnerable populations have a real voice in shaping what transit downtown should look like. Our collective goal was the ultimate improvement of Calgary Transit for Calgaryans." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 15817.465, "end": 15829.345, "text": "I supported maintaining the free fare zone last year, not because I believed it was perfect, far from it, but because council simply did not have the data, I'll say it again the data needed to judge whether it was a good, bad, or ineffective." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 15830.045, "end": 15838.885, "text": "We were being asked at the time to make a permanent decision without full understanding of the financial, safety, ridership, and operational impacts. This motion fixes that." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 15839.045, "end": 15867.105, "text": "It directs administration to do a comprehensive review, including safety, fair compliance, revenue impacts, enforcement, sponsorship potentials, and the voices of downtown stakeholders, very important, and most importantly, transit users. It also dovetails directly with the Calgary Transit's broader fair review, which we just heard discussion about, allowing us to look at the free fare zone as part of a coherent system rather than in isolation. More importantly, it does not prejudge the outcome. It gives us what we all need to do to make an informed decision. Data." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 15867.605, "end": 15888.365, "text": "After this work is complete, Council will have the data, the stakeholder input, and the financial analysis we need to make a thoughtful and correct decision. One that supports downtown vitality, improves safety, and ensures the long term financial and operational strength of Calgary Transit. I think that's something each and every single one of us want. This is responsible governance, and I urge Council to support this motion. Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15889.585, "end": 15895.065, "text": "All right, that's seconded by uh Councilor Yule. Uh Councilor Shabot, can I go over to you for the uh proposed amendment?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15898.065, "end": 15898.285, "text": "Yeah." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15898.485, "end": 15899.825, "text": "Thanks. Uh yeah, so I" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15900.545, "end": 15901.785, "text": "um I thought there was" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15902.085, "end": 15902.625, "text": "one" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15903.065, "end": 15904.045, "text": "entity or" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15904.605, "end": 15919.805, "text": "several in entities that weren't included, although it does say uh including but not limited to. Um I thought it would be beneficial to add uh CPS and and uh Calgary Transit or transit safety. I think there should be a comma in there." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15920.205, "end": 15928.045, "text": "Uh Calvary Police Service, transit safety officers, peace officers, bylaw enforcement officers. I I think that covers all the enforcement" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15928.585, "end": 15929.545, "text": "uh pieces and" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15930.005, "end": 15932.985, "text": "just so it's we have a more comprehensive report back." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15933.205, "end": 15933.625, "text": "So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15934.165, "end": 15935.925, "text": "like to propose that. I'm not sure." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15936.065, "end": 15937.905, "text": "I guess we can't do friendlies anymore, but" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 15938.925, "end": 15940.185, "text": "happy to make that as an amendment." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15940.685, "end": 15944.325, "text": "Thank you. That amendment's on the floor uh from Councillor Shabot, seconded by" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15944.885, "end": 15945.625, "text": "Councilor Winehouse." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15947.685, "end": 15949.145, "text": "Seeing no debate, uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15949.525, "end": 15951.005, "text": "all in favor on this amendment?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15952.325, "end": 15952.965, "text": "Any opposed?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15954.405, "end": 15956.545, "text": "Councillor Johnston is opposed to the amendment," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15956.905, "end": 15958.705, "text": "and that uh motion is carried." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15960.265, "end": 15964.065, "text": "All right, uh I'm gonna go quickly to Councilor Kelly on uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15964.665, "end": 15967.685, "text": "your amendment. Uh I think you just want to add Alpha House, is that correct?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 15967.825, "end": 15985.945, "text": "Yeah, I sent in an amendment to add uh similar lead counselorship to add Calgary Police Services, uh, but we already just uh added that. This is the second one that I uh recommending that we add is Alpha House, just because both Calgary Police and Alpha House are the ones uh who had the most relevant on the ground experience, and I thought it'd be good to include them in this as well." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 15986.905, "end": 15991.325, "text": "So I guess this amendment would be just to add Alpha House as a uh uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 15991.465, "end": 15992.585, "text": "number 12," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 15993.045, "end": 15993.665, "text": "two twelve." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 15994.805, "end": 16001.605, "text": "Okay, let's give it just a moment uh to catch up there. Um on Councilor Kelly's amendment, we need a seconder first" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 16002.925, "end": 16003.725, "text": "to add alpha house." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 16004.065, "end": 16005.865, "text": "Uh seconded by Councilor Atkinson." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 16006.625, "end": 16010.145, "text": "Speaker's queue, uh Council Deputy Mayor, are you on Councilor Kelly's?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 16010.145, "end": 16055.625, "text": "Yeah, you bet. Absolutely. By by all means, you know, when we did this proposal, um, I think we had about 15, and then we purposely did the included but not limited to. And and I suppose maybe I'll ask Counselor Kelly to by Alf House absolutely fully support Councilor Kelly in your last debate. You clearly said that you did not support this. And uh I'm just curious, uh, making an amendment to improve it. Uh I'd love to hear your thoughts if this strengthens it. I I don't think it's a material change, so I'd love to hear your thoughts there. Um, you know, and and to any other person listening, if they want to have an opinion, by all means, the more the merrier. We need to understand exactly how the freefare zone impacts Calgarians. Uh so certainly uh I know administration retail, but if if you could on your close just address what changed in your mind and how material adding Alpha House is to uh to change that amendment. Thank you so much, Mr. Chair." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 16057.485, "end": 16060.085, "text": "All right, anyone else on the amendment? Uh Councilor Atkinson." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_26", "start": 16060.905, "end": 16064.005, "text": "I'd yeah, I guess I'd just like to ask uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_26", "start": 16064.245, "end": 16086.265, "text": "Around this question like uh point number two to transit. So it says like it is like including but not limited to. Uh how would you interpret that and who would you include in the not limited to? Because I mean I yeah, if we're gonna if yeah, I guess I'll I'll just leave it there for a second." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 16088.105, "end": 16100.805, "text": "Through the chair, Councillor Atkinson. So we are already undertaking some analysis of the free fare zone. So there may be other organizations that we've been engaging that would be included in the not limited to." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 16101.425, "end": 16105.845, "text": "Off the top, I think we uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 16106.785, "end": 16124.485, "text": "we definitely want to talk to even our operators as an example. Um, right. We would probably uh look to uh meet with some of the businesses along the corridor. Uh so there's a number of different individuals that may we may engage with that are not limited to that list." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_26", "start": 16125.565, "end": 16141.285, "text": "Yeah, I'm just like I this list, I mean, this is this is I guess the piece where I'm like, I get the desire for like discretion and what are we actually trying to tap in. I worry a little bit around this list and sort of the level of um." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_26", "start": 16142.145, "end": 16185.025, "text": "Like it's it's the high level, but then there are folks in here that are like that are not on here. We don't have uh disability action hall, uh we don't have uh Calgary Transit riders like advocacy groups, we don't have um like there's riders specifically directly, but some of these like uh informal groups that really uh do this work. I think like Alpha House speaks to another one, right? Like, what are the impacts we've got? Vibrant Communities, Calgary may be on on the list, but not yet, maybe the Calgary Homeless Foundation or some of these other other pieces. So I'm just yeah, I'm trying to wrap my head around how long do we sit here and make a list of of um you know 50 deep. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_26", "start": 16185.785, "end": 16202.245, "text": "versus trusting sort of the process. Uh and and I I guess my concern in that is some of these less formal groups, the disability action halls that are not necessarily gonna be always front of mind uh in terms of these impacts. Yeah." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 16203.405, "end": 16203.865, "text": "Uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 16204.545, "end": 16219.865, "text": "through the chair, Counselor Atkinson. So we have a number of of routine meetings with a number of groups. Um CNIB as an example, disability action. We have our staff that work" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 16220.405, "end": 16255.585, "text": "For Calgary Transit Access that might have some insight. And our partners across like our civic partners, we have a number of connection points. So our goal is to incorporate perspectives from across the spectrum. We also encourage anyone who would like to have offer feedback to reach out either through the survey that we've put out or through directly to transit staff that are they engage with regularly. So I I think we will have a comprehensive response" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 16256.445, "end": 16256.745, "text": "in." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 16257.405, "end": 16282.865, "text": "We already had planned to meet with CPS and the Transit Peacer groups. So we have tried to cover our bases ahead of this amendment and ahead of this notice of motion to make sure we understand the full picture. But you know, perhaps we will have missed somebody if they don't reach out or if we don't recognize that. So if if any counselor would like to provide us with additional names, we can always take a look and reach out if if that helps." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_26", "start": 16282.905, "end": 16284.485, "text": "Okay, great. Thank you. Yeah." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 16286.905, "end": 16289.205, "text": "Thank you. Anyone anyone else on this amendment?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 16290.605, "end": 16290.825, "text": "All right." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 16292.505, "end": 16293.025, "text": "Councilor Yule." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_28", "start": 16294.285, "end": 16309.185, "text": "Yeah, just echoing uh Councillor Pantozo, Councillor Kelly, if this garners your vote, then uh great. Um but like we said, it's not limited to there's plenty of opportunities for many organizations to get involved in this in this engagement." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 16311.405, "end": 16313.165, "text": "All right, uh, Councilor Kelly on the amendment." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 16314.225, "end": 16363.305, "text": "Councillor Yule is saying that if I if if if if we add Alpha House, uh that that's what it takes to no, no, no. Uh you to Councilor Pan's office's specific request. Uh I think I said earlier that I'm inclined to not vote uh for this based on based on the previous one. I'm obviously open to debate in terms of the year, but I definitely wanted to make the make sure the additions of both Calgary Police and Alpha House were put in there. Regardless of the outcome of my particular vote, I uh they they definitely should be engaged for all the reasons that Councillor Atkinson uh just listed and that uh Director Fleming uh committed to for the uh other organizations as well. Uh so I'll echo what they said in terms of I encourage every organization who might like to be involved in this to reach out to Calgary Transit to uh um to have their say, presuming that this goes forward." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 16365.285, "end": 16368.685, "text": "Thank you. On this, uh, are we agreed?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_17", "start": 16370.165, "end": 16370.185, "text": "well." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 16370.185, "end": 16370.805, "text": "Any opposed?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 16372.025, "end": 16376.945, "text": "Councilor Shabot is opposed, and that uh motion has carried. Thank you, uh Council." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 16377.585, "end": 16380.745, "text": "Back on the uh main motion as amended." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 16382.565, "end": 16383.485, "text": "Any further debate?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 16387.665, "end": 16388.245, "text": "Counselor Yule." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_28", "start": 16388.885, "end": 16391.965, "text": "Yeah, I might as well put in my two cents. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_28", "start": 16392.245, "end": 16475.605, "text": "Like many of my uh you know uh things here at council, I like to encourage my counselors to um, you know, use your library card and check out the history of some of the decisions made. We we talked about in the last one that the 90-minute um uh decision was from the you know turn of the millennium. Um this decision for the free fare zone came back from 19 uh 79 as a pilot project for the bus um uh a bus line uh through downtown. Uh and that was at a time when the uh the fare was 15 cents. Uh and uh the intention was uh for for it was a pilot project, um, and it costs about uh $13,000. Uh and so things have changed since 1979, and and uh and we definitely need uh more data uh as we go forward to to, you know, uh like we did in the last one. If we have the data, we can make proper decisions. And and my feeling is this this has been a uh subsidy to our transit uh system. And as a council, I encourage us to be very intentional about the subsidies that we put into our system. And so this data that will come back will help us make those decisions, and uh I think will make the transit um system a lot better." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_28", "start": 16476.205, "end": 16476.565, "text": "Thanks." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 16477.845, "end": 16478.885, "text": "Thank you. Uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 16479.605, "end": 16482.125, "text": "Councilor Yule. I don't know about you guys, but after" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 16482.605, "end": 16488.285, "text": "the the trips down memory lane that he take Councilor Yule takes us on this, the the flag notice of motion, others, I" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 16488.545, "end": 16492.185, "text": "I'm looking forward to joining you in Word 3 for maybe you could host us a James Walk." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 16492.985, "end": 16494.765, "text": "And I I'm being 100% serious on what we" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_28", "start": 16494.765, "end": 16498.145, "text": "I'll I I'm definitely uh down for that." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 16498.765, "end": 16500.065, "text": "all right uh Councilor Kelly, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 16503.665, "end": 16507.965, "text": "Uh no, it's Councillor Kelly uh debating on the uh motion as amended." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 16512.465, "end": 16513.445, "text": "Take us away, Councillor Kelly." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 16514.865, "end": 16526.425, "text": "Uh yeah, just a a question I guess for a minute in terms of uh jump I'm just curious how how from your point of view how this will intersect with the current review of the free fare zone that Calgary Transit is doing as part of your current engagement." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 16527.765, "end": 16551.605, "text": "Through the chair, Councillor Kelly. So we're already undertaking this work as part of the FAIR strategy that we talked about earlier. If there's a decision sooner than that on this particular item, then that's fine. But we were progressing this work. And despite a little bit of additional engagement, which which we would welcome, there's there's nothing here that stands out." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 16553.265, "end": 16570.585, "text": "And then just from a timing perspective, because I know you said you weren't going to be back to us in about a year by doing this by the end of Q2, I think that we had said. So that's a little bit like six months before that. Does that timing work for you? Or does this I'm just curious if this makes things easier, faster for you, or if this makes things slower, worse for you?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 16570.785, "end": 16578.805, "text": "So this one in particular, we were going to be looking at as perhaps a budget item, so we needed to have it done within this timeline." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 16580.305, "end": 16582.925, "text": "Well, that might be the thing that tips me over there, Counselor Ewell." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 16585.465, "end": 16587.405, "text": "All right, Councilor Atkinson on the uh main." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_26", "start": 16590.465, "end": 16595.825, "text": "Just once again, actually, a little bit of a follow up. So can you describe the work that you're doing" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_26", "start": 16596.445, "end": 16600.845, "text": "around the free fair zone with the fair strategy just in a bit more depth right now?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 16600.945, "end": 16641.965, "text": "Okay, so so we started in the fall with a survey of the riders out on the platform to understand how and why the how they use the free fare zone. Are they actually taking a free ride? Are they staying within the zone? Um, just to get a sense of how what percentage of the riders were actually free fare zone riders versus people going through the downtown in one way or another. So we did that work. Uh now we're doing an engagement uh program with them to understand what what the will of the citizenship is. So that's that survey that you heard, um, and that was all gonna feed into a larger plan. Uh the plan um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 16642.765, "end": 16653.605, "text": "We haven't we hadn't cut we weren't planning on coming up with alternatives to the free fare zone yet, but we certainly were gonna we we we wanted to have a sense of how it was being used and why. Um this is a" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 16653.985, "end": 16666.145, "text": "a different um purpose because it's about review visiting whether or not it should still be free now. Uh but the same work will be conducted and it would have fed into that fair strategy." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 16666.585, "end": 16670.125, "text": "In the within the year, if if it didn't get resolved right away." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_26", "start": 16670.545, "end": 16681.385, "text": "So how would you see this notice of motion as being different than what you're pursuing already? Like what where where do you see differences in this in terms of approach or" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 16681.385, "end": 16695.085, "text": "So there's a couple of items here. Analysis of fair revenue changes. So I think that particular one suggests okay, can we scroll down a bit further on the MNOM? Yeah." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 16696.045, "end": 16699.105, "text": "Okay. So there" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 16700.225, "end": 16703.625, "text": "the difference is the value added elements. So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 16705.525, "end": 16712.125, "text": "Alternatives to a free fare zone, including considerations on" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 16712.625, "end": 16747.585, "text": "there was one line I thought on different ways to charge. I don't know that we would have gone into that depth now. We would have said, hey, the free fare zone probably doesn't meet our needs, or it does continue to meet our needs one way or the other. Citizens are using it a certain way, doesn't meet our policy purpose, and then we would have fed that into the fair strategy. This one asks us for a modified fare program, which we hadn't actually contemplated to do this quickly. So you see that line there? Present viable alternatives, including incentives or modified fare programs. That's new." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 16749.005, "end": 16749.845, "text": "In this timeline." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_26", "start": 16749.845, "end": 16767.445, "text": "Right, right. And and would this change like how what it is that you are basing your recommendations around the free fare zone? Like the way that comes back? Is this any different than the way you would be approaching the recommendations that would be coming in the fare revenue?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 16770.245, "end": 16794.645, "text": "If we chose to change how we treat the free fare zone, whether it be through a discounted downtown fair or to remove it entirely, that would be a decision that we would park and then we would move on to other things because this is a singular specific difference to the rest of our system that we could address now or later." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 16795.865, "end": 16796.145, "text": "Yeah." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_26", "start": 16796.865, "end": 16797.505, "text": "Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_26", "start": 16798.465, "end": 16800.625, "text": "go into debate for a second. So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_26", "start": 16801.425, "end": 16806.465, "text": "big fan of the free fare zone. No big surprise there. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_26", "start": 16807.385, "end": 16808.165, "text": "I" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_26", "start": 16808.665, "end": 16902.405, "text": "I guess my concern in all of the current analysis, maybe even potentially with this, is that it is it is baked into uh a scheme, a strategy of fair recovery. Um and and when we think about the fair-free zone, and you look at the actually the original intentions of the fair-free zone and the downtown, it is about being an economic driver within the downtown. It is about creating those connection points and allowing the meetings to take place. Uh it is uh it is about sort of the economic activity, the vibrancy, and sort of connection through the core. Um and I think when this work gets couched in fair revenue strategy, there is uh a goal that's being trying to be achieved in that work. Uh it is is fair fairer recovery, fair revenue being generated. Um and even here, I worry a little bit that the there the understanding sort of the um those those wider economic impacts, right? We have two grocery stores now. We've got one on the west end, we've got one on the east end of downtown. Um we are trying to encourage people to move into downtown. We already have congestion problems within the downtown. We're not building any more lanes in the downtown. Um there's there's also, I guess, uh a war happening, right? That is also um having effects on uh on mobility and and and the ways in which people are getting uh in and around uh our city. So having um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_26", "start": 16903.025, "end": 16936.265, "text": "Having a free fare zone, I think, is actually really, really important in terms of our overall uh vibrancy, the future uh economic prosperity of our downtown and and the the livability of being someone within downtown. All of that said, I think this helps to somewhat complicate and sort of broaden our perspective around the Fair Free Zone beyond sort of the work that is being done specifically within the fair revenue strategy. So, on that, I will be supporting it." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_26", "start": 16937.105, "end": 16947.385, "text": "We'll have another debate at the point at which the fair free zone comes back on the table, and uh I'll talk to you in between as well. Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 16948.125, "end": 16950.925, "text": "Thank you. Um brief debate from Councillor Shabot." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 16951.745, "end": 16955.505, "text": "Yes, and and one quick question Q2 2026, is that realistic?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 16957.565, "end": 16962.325, "text": "It aligns with the original plan we had to deliver um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 16962.645, "end": 16967.985, "text": "uh a review for our internal purposes to feed into the FAIR strategy. So yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 16968.125, "end": 16976.805, "text": "Okay, thanks. Yeah, no, I I I couldn't help but go back memory lane if I if I could briefly, because I couldn't believe he said it was fifteen cents for the fair." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 16977.205, "end": 16979.265, "text": "Because I remember in nineteen seventy four" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 16981.505, "end": 16983.245, "text": "when I when I got robbed." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 16983.985, "end": 16986.045, "text": "No, no spontaneous applause, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 16986.265, "end": 16987.545, "text": "When I when I got robbed," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 16988.165, "end": 16993.805, "text": "I uh I remember I had my ten cents that I could actually make a phone call and that was what I was gonna use for fare." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 16994.385, "end": 17003.125, "text": "And I got it back. So it's seventy four. I'm pretty sure it was only ten cents. So that's a pretty big increase in just in just five years. Just had to throw that out there." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 17004.885, "end": 17005.305, "text": "Thanks." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 17005.365, "end": 17007.925, "text": "All right, uh Counselor Dallywell, over to you, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_35", "start": 17009.085, "end": 17011.765, "text": "Thank you, Mayor. Just got a couple of questions." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_35", "start": 17012.645, "end": 17026.125, "text": "I heard data, data, data. Just focusing on free fare zone is very selective data, not representing entire Calgary. Calgary and Strait Transit, not just people living in the core. What do you have to say about that, Director Fleming?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 17027.165, "end": 17070.885, "text": "Yes, so we are hoping that we will have better data across the city soon once we get our electronic payment solution fully implemented. We have some other tools that we're hoping that we are able to leverage in the short term, but it's a broader data analysis that is required when you're talking about the city as a whole versus a very small subset of our city. So for the purposes of this exercise, we feel that the scope is reasonable for us to gather that data. Long term, we were hoping to have the same kinds of data available. Right now, all we have across the city is boarding data, which is useful, but it doesn't actually talk about the length of trip." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_35", "start": 17072.045, "end": 17078.485, "text": "1415 organizations identified on the notice of motion. Some were added on the floor today." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_35", "start": 17078.845, "end": 17093.865, "text": "How are you gonna make sure that they're properly represented in the weightage? Because some people will have a different perspective of free zone than others. CPS might have a different perspective than someone who's volunteering downtown." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_35", "start": 17094.005, "end": 17101.825, "text": "How are you gonna make sure that your data is properly representing, uh, is properly normalized to the needs of the of the residents?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 17102.025, "end": 17102.565, "text": "Yeah." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 17103.045, "end": 17151.945, "text": "So there are a lot of people on this list, a lot of organizations on this list, some of which we have already consulted with, others that have different purposes and priorities. So we'll have to find a balance between ensuring that we speak to the right people at each of these organizations as well. But I think the baseline attempt of us to actually speak with Calgarians, people actually using the system on the platform is one of our greatest priorities. And then coupled with the survey of the general public and other organizations that they that who wish who wish to respond would also be a give us a good sense. So I I mean no engagement is perfect, but we're endeavoring to work with our engaged team and do this properly." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_35", "start": 17152.745, "end": 17180.085, "text": "Yeah, my last question is our transit peace officers are already stretched out. And if we and I'm I'm just assuming outcome, uh just for hypothetical sake, uh, there is no free fair zone. Uh it's gonna make enforcement very complicated, which means we might see more issues safety wise in other quadrants of the city and other transit districts. Uh are we gonna keep that in mind when we are making recommendations to this council?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_02", "start": 17180.805, "end": 17198.505, "text": "So we'll be working closely with our transit public safety team. Early early suggestions on their part is that it will likely be easier to enforce place without the free fare zone. It would be e it'll be make their job a lot easier." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_35", "start": 17199.665, "end": 17246.825, "text": "Okay. No, I I you know what I really I mean I I I'm reluctant to support it. I'm gonna support it because once you go down a path of um getting data or whatever, it's a path of uh dismantling that system. And that's exactly what I'm uh looking at it. But it's unfortunate that we are going this down this path rather than looking at a route head strategy overall as overall as a holistic transit plan for this city. We are doing piecemeal bandit solutions here and there, trying to find every dollar and cent if you want to say. But uh the right approach would have been at the four year budget cycle to properly, properly fund route head uh with proper intentions and outcomes. With that, I will reluctantly support it." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_35", "start": 17247.225, "end": 17259.485, "text": "Uh but at the same time, if it's gonna affect uh uh the overall affordability, uh vulnerable population, low-income residents, when the report comes back, I will be definitely opposing it. Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 17261.025, "end": 17271.685, "text": "Thank you, Councillor Dollywell. Over to uh Deputy Mayor Close. I just want to say thanks to the movers for incorporating some of the feedback and suggestions I had in the uh final version. Thank you, and uh over to you to close." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 17271.685, "end": 17273.065, "text": "You know, I had a little" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 17273.745, "end": 17287.365, "text": "closing speech prepared and I think the closing speech that I want to say now is exactly what Councillor Atkinson said. He fundamentally agrees that the downtown free fare zone is wonderful, fantastic, and there's members of this council that feel it's the worst thing in the world. Perfect." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 17288.165, "end": 17334.665, "text": "By going through this process, we're doing exactly what we need to do. We're talking to the right people, we're getting the right information, and we're making a call before budget. I I disagree, this is the wrong time. We just heard from administration this dovetails beautifully into our four-year budget cycle, the most important. We heard prior discussions that the four-year budget cycle is absolutely critical and important. So I I think it's it's exactly what we're supposed to do as a council. We're supposed to respectfully disagree. It it concerns me that people have said when this comes, I'll vote against it. Let's get the data. Let's make a call then. Uh I'm I don't know where I'm gonna vote. I want to get this data. And I hope every single member of council, with this data, with this debate, then makes a call, and they haven't had a predetermined outcome uh without looking at the uh actually talking to the impacted Calgarians. But uh with that, hope for your support, and I'm closed." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 17337.605, "end": 17350.085, "text": "Thanks. Uh part of my responsibility as chair is just to make sure no one's misquoted, and I just want to say uh Deputy Mayor, no one said that this was the worst thing in the world. Uh it's a little bit of hyperbole, which I'll allow in in debate, but I just want to make sure that uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 17350.745, "end": 17354.525, "text": "we're here to just This has been a respectful debate, which I appreciate." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 17355.005, "end": 17357.325, "text": "Uh Madam Clerk, let's please engage the uh evote." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 17376.165, "end": 17376.625, "text": "Council." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 17377.085, "end": 17380.185, "text": "Councilor Johnston, your vote please. Thank you. Counselor McClain, your vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 17380.185, "end": 17380.605, "text": "Yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 17380.965, "end": 17381.565, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 17381.745, "end": 17383.105, "text": "Mayor Farkas, your vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 17383.245, "end": 17383.565, "text": "Yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 17383.685, "end": 17384.065, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 17384.805, "end": 17385.585, "text": "All the votes are in." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 17385.865, "end": 17387.325, "text": "Thank you. Please display the results." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 17389.285, "end": 17394.405, "text": "On the review and reform of the uh downtown Calgary Transit Prefair Zone. That motion has carried" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 17394.745, "end": 17396.365, "text": "15 to 0 unanimously." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 17396.585, "end": 17399.785, "text": "Over to Councilor Kelly. I believe you have a procedural motion for us." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_27", "start": 17400.225, "end": 17409.365, "text": "Yeah, I just wanted to uh recommend that we uh forgo the dinner break uh just to get this done because we are so incredibly close. Uh rather get that done than get all of us out of here quicker." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 17409.845, "end": 17412.465, "text": "All right. Moved by Councilor Kelly. Seconded by uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 17413.105, "end": 17414.765, "text": "Deputy Member Pantozopoulos." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 17415.185, "end": 17416.945, "text": "Any debate on this procedural motion?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 17418.445, "end": 17419.945, "text": "Seeing none, all in favor?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 17420.865, "end": 17421.565, "text": "Any opposed?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 17422.565, "end": 17423.945, "text": "Councilor Weines is opposed." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 17424.285, "end": 17426.905, "text": "And that uh motion is carried. All right, let's move." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 17428.985, "end": 17439.525, "text": "On to, I believe, the final notice of motion, 9.4.6. Notice of motion to strengthen and stabilize the city of Calgary's infrastructure assets. Over to you, Deputy Mayor Pentazoulis, to introduce." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 17441.485, "end": 17489.205, "text": "Colleagues, over the past year, council has seen very clearly that Calgary has entered a new phase as a city. We are no longer just a fast-growing city building brand new assets. We are a maturing city, responsible for maintaining, renewing, and protecting what we already have. As reflected in the IPC report, we just recently approved, and I believe was just uh approved here at this council meeting, roughly 11% of our infrastructure is in poor or very poor condition. That is an estimated $18 billion in assets that need funding. This includes water, roads, bridges, facilities, IT systems, and other critical assets. The recent water marine break showed us that the risks are real, measurable, and not isolated. Particularly worrisome for me is the over $2.2 billion in poor to very poor condition assets that have severe consequences if they were to fail. This is what keeps Calgarians, and I hope this council up at night." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 17489.945, "end": 17510.485, "text": "At Audit Committee, we also heard directly that capital infrastructure risk has now been elevated to extensive. At IPC, we saw the sobering preliminary findings of our corporate asset management plan. Our assets have deteriorated not because of one event, but because of cumulative pressures, aging assets, growth, higher consequence of failure, and an unwillingness to adequately fund infrastructure. The good news." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 17511.225, "end": 17542.525, "text": "Is that Council is about to receive something we've never had before: clarity and a clear path forward to solve the issues. Over the next few months, administration will bring us a finalized corporate asset management plan, a capital needs assessment, a corporate prioritization framework, and a citywide ten year capital infrastructure plan. These reports in consecutive uh coming to council are very discrete, very distinct, and they're going to guide our judgment. These four reports are the blueprint council needs to fix our infrastructure issues, but there's a gap this motion is trying to address." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 17543.225, "end": 17576.165, "text": "We do not yet have a financing strategy that matches the scale, duration, and risk profile of these assets. In some cases, particularly for long-life infrastructure like water and utilities, it makes far more sense to use low-cost debt, long amortization periods, grants, and rate based funding, rather than asking today's taxpayers to fund decades long assets all at once. Borrowing a billion dollars and repaying it over 50 years, aligned with asset life and paid by future users, is often more responsible, more affordable, and more fair than taxing Calgaryans upfront for the full amount." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 17576.465, "end": 17615.885, "text": "This motion does not commit counsel to any one solution. It directs administration to bring back options, stable, predictable funding tools that allow us to reduce risk, smooth costs over time, and match financing to infrastructure needs. If we don't solve this funding question today, the reports won't matter, as we have not answered the critical question of how do we pay for all of this. We cannot let this happen to Calgaryans as failure to understand a clear path forward as to how we finance our infrastructure deficit is as critical as the work that we need to fund. This is how we move from reacting to failures to managing risk deliberately and responsibly. I urge Council to support this motion. Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 17618.365, "end": 17622.505, "text": "Thank you. That's moved by Deputy Mayor Panzoppoulos. Can I please have a second around the item?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 17625.425, "end": 17626.685, "text": "Second by Councillor Yule." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 17627.405, "end": 17629.965, "text": "It's on the floor. Over to Councilor Waness, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 17630.525, "end": 17633.405, "text": "Thanks. I spoke a little bit at the notice of motion. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 17633.985, "end": 17638.125, "text": "Councillor Spencer has already put this work forward to admin." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 17638.465, "end": 17642.505, "text": "It's if you read the notice motion which was floating around and directed" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 17643.005, "end": 17643.925, "text": "to council." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 17644.345, "end": 17645.905, "text": "This is a redundant" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 17646.805, "end": 17651.705, "text": "placement of a directive administration is currently working on, and it sets council up to constantly" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 17652.005, "end": 17656.385, "text": "have administration come back and ask us to re vote on directions we've given them" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 17656.705, "end": 17657.625, "text": "to do the work." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 17658.005, "end": 17661.025, "text": "I can't support this because, again, like I keep saying." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 17661.565, "end": 17670.205, "text": "The last council put this to administration to fix all of our infrastructure reporting and look into this issue. So it's poorly placed." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 17672.165, "end": 17674.765, "text": "Thank you. Over to Councilor Dollywell, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_35", "start": 17676.085, "end": 17728.085, "text": "Yeah, no, thank you. I'm not gonna repeat what Councillor Weiners said. The executive I heard C CFO said it's a very it's looking at more of a holistic. Well, I went back and I looked at what Counselor Spencer in last term had mentioned. Actually, that was more holistic than this one. If putting notice of motion is uh is a measure of success, then I don't know where we are heading. But I totally agree with Councillor Wine's uh redundancy, I know right now is in the news, but this is not the point of redundancy. We need redundancy for pipelines and other infrastructure, not for the work that administration is already doing. Um, I think the TAT report is due Q3 of this year, right before the budget deliberations, and I'm looking forward to that rather than creating more work for uh administration. And then we always complain about more FTEs. So I won't be able to support it at this time. Thank you. Yeah." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 17729.045, "end": 17730.145, "text": "Thank you, Councillor Shabot." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 17732.805, "end": 17736.725, "text": "Yeah, um, just a couple of questions to the men in regards to um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 17737.105, "end": 17742.425, "text": "Water and wastewater infrastructure when it comes to replacement or upgrading if existing infrastructure," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 17743.085, "end": 17744.985, "text": "what's our current mechanism for funding" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 17745.485, "end": 17746.985, "text": "those uh upgrades" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 17747.945, "end": 17749.185, "text": "or replacement or" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_29", "start": 17753.285, "end": 17759.645, "text": "Uh your worship, the current mechanism for funding any utility infrastructure currently uh is the utility rate." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 17760.485, "end": 17763.805, "text": "and uh the debt is structured how?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 17764.665, "end": 17768.225, "text": "Is it is it based on the life expectancy of the asset?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_29", "start": 17769.265, "end": 17771.005, "text": "I will defer that to CFO Tucker." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 17772.685, "end": 17778.345, "text": "Uh currently, right now, the lifespan of our current debt I believe is 25 years." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 17778.785, "end": 17781.345, "text": "And that is" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 17782.005, "end": 17806.165, "text": "I think under our limitations that we have. We are currently looking at the potential of extending that to the extent we can, to the extent that the market will bear, but it can't go over the life, the useful life of the asset. So again, depending on the type of asset we're building, with clarity on its useful life, dictates how long debt could be." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 17806.585, "end": 17810.145, "text": "Okay, and before Mr. Thompson answers this, I thought we recently" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 17810.365, "end": 17813.545, "text": "looked at uh going to 30 years on some of those uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 17814.245, "end": 17815.645, "text": "uh some of those um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 17816.145, "end": 17817.845, "text": "Upgrades or replacements." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_16", "start": 17822.625, "end": 17823.745, "text": "That's an excellent question." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_30", "start": 17825.885, "end": 17852.545, "text": "Thank you very much for the question. Up until very recently, the province, when we were boring from the province, the term limit was 25 years. So just recently, we were able to do a 30. In fact, you passed the first boring bylaw that had a 30 year term, boring from the province earlier today with the NMAX bylaws. So we would be able to explore 30s. If we wanted to go beyond 30, we would need to look to the debt capital markets for that and not borrow from the province." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 17852.885, "end": 17853.325, "text": "Okay." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 17853.785, "end": 17855.205, "text": "And 30 years" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 17855.925, "end": 17859.285, "text": "is beyond anything we've done so far on water infrastructure, isn't it?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_30", "start": 17859.305, "end": 17859.885, "text": "Correct." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 17861.285, "end": 17863.185, "text": "All right. That's all I need to know. Thanks." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 17866.685, "end": 17869.785, "text": "Thank you. Seeing no other debate, uh I'll just" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 17870.145, "end": 17870.945, "text": "briefly say." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 17871.345, "end": 17878.845, "text": "Happy to support this. I think there's been a lot of strategic discussion amongst council in terms of what were the priorities of the previous council versus us" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 17879.105, "end": 17893.205, "text": "uh asserting our uh ourselves. Uh I don't see it necessarily to be a bad thing for us to reaffirm previous direction as well as to revisit what the past direction might have been that we do not want to continue with. So again, happy to uh support this." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 17893.405, "end": 17896.385, "text": "Councilor Atkinson, and then I'll go to uh Deputy Mayor to close." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_26", "start": 17897.425, "end": 17914.285, "text": "Um yeah, I'm not going to be supporting this. I worry that when we are exploring uh improvement fees, levies, or other funding mechanisms, like yes, there are other funding mechanisms is listed in there, but the piece I worry about is equity. Um" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_26", "start": 17914.725, "end": 17949.545, "text": "When we do flat fees, say uh putting a a cost on a per-door basis, the difference of how that gets applied for a house that, you know, uh someone's living in a condo that costs $200,000 versus uh the uh $1.3 million house versus the $3 million house, they're all getting applied in the exact same way. And so we while not perfect, property tax is the one sort of like piece that we have at our disposal that is probably the most equitable. We don't have income tax, we don't have wealth tax, we don't have these other" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_26", "start": 17949.885, "end": 17997.905, "text": "pieces but property taxes are a way to sort of uh center it around a way for who has the ability to pay uh can pay uh in the best way that we can so I won't be supporting this uh I also I I I I followed the line on um on Counselor Wynus's making sure that we don't sort of step up have to like continue to look back at what even I I saw that on the transit debate a bit today with where um you know when are we I guess why do we have to constantly be looking back at the no motions that have been passed in the past and making sure that that work is being done. I think that if that becomes a part of council's work that is also going to become problematic. So yeah I won't be supporting this today based on sort of that equity piece is is the big one for me. So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 17997.905, "end": 17999.005, "text": "Thank you, Councilor Schmidt." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 17999.585, "end": 18002.205, "text": "Uh Councillor Y Ness raised" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 18002.465, "end": 18013.285, "text": "the Councillor Spencer motion uh which was passed by council, I believe, uh May 27th, 2025. So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 18013.505, "end": 18020.125, "text": "Is does anybody have enough any information about the status of the work being done on that?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_32", "start": 18031.745, "end": 18049.845, "text": "Hi. So we started work on this already as we're planning the four-year budget cycle, as this was expected. And when we're looking at the additional direction that earlier today on the timelines and looking at the May timeline on the turn of funding, that will be a component of part of the information that's coming forward." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 18051.305, "end": 18053.205, "text": "So this motion here, does it" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 18053.885, "end": 18056.665, "text": "complement the work already being done? Does it" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 18057.345, "end": 18060.805, "text": "complicate the work already being done, or" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 18061.265, "end": 18067.165, "text": "is it somewhat redundant based on the work that is already being done for the" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 18067.725, "end": 18074.165, "text": "for this counselor, former counselor Spencer's mo Spencer's motion that is being worked into the budget cycle?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_32", "start": 18075.445, "end": 18087.305, "text": "I think it complements the work that's being done. The timeline for Councillor Spencer's motion was Q3, as mentioned, and this one is pushing it a little bit early, which we are prepared to have that information in May." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 18087.945, "end": 18091.805, "text": "So then would would there be a world in which" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 18092.785, "end": 18093.485, "text": "both" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 18094.065, "end": 18100.525, "text": "can be provided to council together given that this is being expedited and there's already been work" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 18101.345, "end": 18105.845, "text": "on counselor former counselor spenser's motion? Is" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 18106.705, "end": 18112.085, "text": "is this just where we can package them together and receive them together, or will they still come separately?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_32", "start": 18112.845, "end": 18113.725, "text": "It will come together." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_08", "start": 18114.065, "end": 18114.925, "text": "Okay, thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18115.905, "end": 18117.805, "text": "Thank you, uh Deputy Mayor to close, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_21", "start": 18118.985, "end": 18198.085, "text": "Thanks so much. I think we did rehash the debate from executive committee, and I think CFO Toker stood up and said this is something new and novel. And yet additive, we just heard from administration, it definitely is additive. And I think everything changed on December 30th. The whole approach, the whole priority, the whole process, and uh coming through as it dovetails again into that sort of four-year budget cycle, I think is really important. So hopefully everybody can sort of get over that and and just really understand that this is additive, this adds a lot of value, and it gives us more tools in the toolkit. And and just wanted to speak with Counselor Atkinson's concern about equity. Uh there are times when property tax can be funded at a road, a sidewalk, but as we discussed, when there's things like the utilities, you can't. You cannot have a 10% increase in property tax to pay for water. It has to be uh user-based. And this will arm the water utility, which will be an MCC in the next few years and give them that ability and uh more tools and uh to ability to execute that. So hopefully, you know, uh with that understanding, we can go there. I think when the debate comes, whatever concerns, that's what the debate is, how we actually execute with this. Then we can bring whatever your priorities are. If it's equity and you want everybody to pay the same, perfect. If you want to be a per unit uh per cube of water, per kilometer of road, so be it. But that's the whole purpose. We get the data and make that choice. And I hope you do support. I'm closed. Thank you. Yeah." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18198.425, "end": 18200.545, "text": "Thank you, Madam Clerk. Let's engage the e-vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 18219.745, "end": 18221.405, "text": "Councilor Jamison, your vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 18223.325, "end": 18223.765, "text": "Yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 18225.965, "end": 18227.165, "text": "Counselor Schmidt, your vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 18227.425, "end": 18227.945, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 18229.005, "end": 18230.345, "text": "Counselor McLean, your vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18230.345, "end": 18230.625, "text": "Yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 18230.765, "end": 18231.265, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 18232.185, "end": 18233.505, "text": "Mayor Farkas, your vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18233.985, "end": 18234.325, "text": "Yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 18234.585, "end": 18235.085, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 18235.905, "end": 18236.765, "text": "All the votes are in." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18237.245, "end": 18238.705, "text": "Thank you. Please display the results." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18241.645, "end": 18246.085, "text": "And on the notice of motion, that motion is carried 8 to 7 with counselors Ward," }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18246.665, "end": 18251.385, "text": "Johnston, Dallywell, Atkinson, Tyres, Chabot, and Weynus" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18251.885, "end": 18252.545, "text": "opposed." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18253.645, "end": 18269.505, "text": "We're now on to urgent business. Over to you, uh Counselor Wynus, to introduce the notice of motion that was added as far as the public member appointment. No council, if uh we have no issue with the public appointee and the confidential establishment, uh, there's not a requirement to go into closed session. So" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18270.025, "end": 18275.565, "text": "Maybe you can just briefly uh just r restate why this is necessary at this time, Councilor Wynus." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 18275.765, "end": 18283.845, "text": "Yeah, uh, if you go to closed, you can see the name and resume of who we would like to appoint to audit committee. I can't really go into too much unless we go in camera." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 18284.185, "end": 18288.945, "text": "It's the reason we have to do it this way is because unfortunately our public member passed away." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 18289.305, "end": 18292.025, "text": "And so I hope I can have your support on this. Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18293.505, "end": 18297.325, "text": "Thank you. That's uh put on the table, Councillor Wynus, seconded by uh Councilor Shabot." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18297.685, "end": 18300.305, "text": "Counselor Johnston, was your RTS on the previous item or this one?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18301.005, "end": 18301.805, "text": "Previous item? Okay." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18302.765, "end": 18303.245, "text": "Uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18303.645, "end": 18305.025, "text": "Counselor Shabot, did you want to jump in?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 18306.905, "end": 18307.905, "text": "Well, I have" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 18308.105, "end": 18310.265, "text": "the pleasure of serving with Ms. McGulvery, and" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 18310.885, "end": 18312.005, "text": "sorry that uh we haven't" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 18312.585, "end": 18313.925, "text": "addressed this issue now, but uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 18314.725, "end": 18315.665, "text": "happy to support this motion." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18316.585, "end": 18318.045, "text": "Thank you, uh Councilor Jameson." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 18320.165, "end": 18323.185, "text": "Yes, I I support this motion. It's a way to get" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 18323.625, "end": 18326.685, "text": "uh there's a vacancy that needs to be filled, and uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 18326.865, "end": 18328.345, "text": "So you never wanna" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_10", "start": 18328.685, "end": 18341.525, "text": "get in a position where you you have uh trouble meeting quorum. So this is a way that uh admin and city's clerk has come up with to be able to fill that spot in a in a faster way and I support we support this. Thanks." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18343.985, "end": 18348.285, "text": "Thank you. And I'm not gonna be too offended that you don't want me to be dragged into the basement for" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18349.025, "end": 18352.685, "text": "You'd have it to be quorum and you actually want to fill it with the public representative." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18353.085, "end": 18355.625, "text": "All right, uh Councillor Wino, are you closed?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_09", "start": 18356.505, "end": 18356.945, "text": "Closed." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18357.325, "end": 18360.625, "text": "All right, Madam Clerk, let's uh please engage the e-vote uh on this item." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 18370.785, "end": 18372.165, "text": "Counselor Ewell, your vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 18372.645, "end": 18373.165, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 18373.685, "end": 18374.925, "text": "Mayor Farkas, your vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18375.025, "end": 18375.325, "text": "Yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 18375.465, "end": 18375.965, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 18376.385, "end": 18377.205, "text": "All the votes are in." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18377.625, "end": 18379.105, "text": "Thank you. Please display the results." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18381.225, "end": 18383.945, "text": "All right, that motion is carried uh 15 to 0." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18384.665, "end": 18389.485, "text": "I believe we only have one remaining item. It's the regular update with chief administrative officer." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18389.885, "end": 18392.245, "text": "May please have a uh motion to move into closed session." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18392.725, "end": 18395.445, "text": "Uh moved by counselor Clark, seconded by Councillor Yule." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18396.665, "end": 18397.525, "text": "Uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18398.265, "end": 18398.985, "text": "All in favor?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 18400.585, "end": 18402.425, "text": "Sorry, I request that you vote for this." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18403.525, "end": 18404.625, "text": "You request a evote." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_15", "start": 18404.705, "end": 18405.005, "text": "Yeah." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18405.225, "end": 18408.085, "text": "All right. Let's engage the e-vote, uh, Madam Clerk, on this." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 18423.225, "end": 18424.645, "text": "Counselor Ward, your vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18424.885, "end": 18425.305, "text": "Yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 18426.365, "end": 18427.905, "text": "Councilor Clark, your vote please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18428.145, "end": 18428.785, "text": "Yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 18429.945, "end": 18431.265, "text": "Mayor Farkas, your vote, please." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18432.425, "end": 18432.805, "text": "Yes." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 18433.245, "end": 18433.485, "text": "Yep." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 18434.285, "end": 18435.185, "text": "All the votes are in." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18436.005, "end": 18437.645, "text": "Thank you. Please display the results." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18440.765, "end": 18444.885, "text": "And that motion to move into uh close session as carried 14 to 1. Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18445.945, "end": 18446.225, "text": "We will" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18449.925, "end": 18451.245, "text": "Madam Clerk, please call the roll." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 18452.385, "end": 18455.325, "text": "Thank you, Mayor. On the roll. Counselor Pantazopoulos." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 18457.105, "end": 18457.985, "text": "Counselor Schmidt." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 18458.945, "end": 18460.065, "text": "Councillor Tyres." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 18460.465, "end": 18461.425, "text": "Counselor Ward." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 18461.825, "end": 18462.925, "text": "Counselor Wyness." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 18465.165, "end": 18466.085, "text": "Counselor Ewell." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 18466.445, "end": 18467.625, "text": "Counselor Atkinson." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 18470.085, "end": 18470.865, "text": "Counselor Chabot." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 18471.265, "end": 18471.565, "text": "President." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 18471.665, "end": 18472.485, "text": "Counselor Clark." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 18473.245, "end": 18474.245, "text": "Counselor Dolly Wall." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 18476.505, "end": 18477.365, "text": "Counselor Dolly Wall." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_18", "start": 18478.565, "end": 18478.885, "text": "Here" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 18479.085, "end": 18479.605, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 18479.845, "end": 18480.965, "text": "Counselor Jameson?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 18481.125, "end": 18482.105, "text": "Counselor Johnston." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18482.165, "end": 18482.405, "text": "Okay." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 18482.505, "end": 18483.345, "text": "Counselor Kelly." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18483.425, "end": 18483.725, "text": "Here." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 18483.905, "end": 18484.805, "text": "Councillor McLean" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18485.345, "end": 18485.665, "text": "Here." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 18485.725, "end": 18486.785, "text": "and Mayor Farkas." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18486.785, "end": 18487.225, "text": "I'm here." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 18487.225, "end": 18487.645, "text": "Thank you for" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18488.325, "end": 18496.265, "text": "I believe we need a motion to rise and report uh moved by Councillor Ewell, seconded by Councilor Clark. All in favor?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18497.505, "end": 18498.385, "text": "Any opposed?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18498.765, "end": 18505.045, "text": "That motion is carried. I believe we need another motion to hold confidential the uh closed meeting discussions." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18506.365, "end": 18509.265, "text": "All right, that is up on the screen. Uh moved by" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18510.085, "end": 18512.185, "text": "Councilor Shabot, seconded by Councillor Yule." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18512.645, "end": 18513.425, "text": "All in favor?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18514.265, "end": 18515.225, "text": "Any opposed?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18515.825, "end": 18518.025, "text": "Seeing none, that motion is carried unanimously." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18518.625, "end": 18522.405, "text": "I believe uh do we have any administrative inquiries, Madam Clerk?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_37", "start": 18522.645, "end": 18523.805, "text": "none received by clerks." }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18523.845, "end": 18525.865, "text": "All right, uh moved by Councillor uh" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18526.745, "end": 18530.425, "text": "Shabot, second by Councilor McClain. Uh do we want to e vote for that?" }, { "speaker": "SPEAKER_25", "start": 18531.365, "end": 18536.685, "text": "All right. All in favor? Any opposed? Seeing none, motion carried unanimously. Good work. See ya." } ], "num_speakers": 38 }